Lucky you! I got the whole "it was meant to be", there were "signs" he even had the balls to tell me them! He sort of sobered up during false recovery, but now is back into the thick of delusion.

Speaking of delusion, I had the pleasure of reading all the notes she wrote him during our false recovery, so much for the NC letter. She sounds like a 15 year old in love. Lets run off to montana....it was awesome eating a sandwich with you today because of the sparkle in your eyes...........GAG-A-RAMA.

I really want to post them to my space...that is my evil twin speaking

Kag, I haven't read your story, but did you expose to OWH? You could always share the letters with him. That might be helpful in ending the A rather than just vengeful.

I didn't have anyone in OW family to expose to except her mother. I have no idea at all what effect, if any, it had. It definitely didn't stop the A. OW in our case is a single mother who never married the child's father. She also has been married 4 times - 3 before the kid was born and 1 after.

I don't think their A was all lovey dovey and soulmate talk. They were friends first and then ended up sleeping together. She needed money and he paid quite a few of her bills. I kind of view it as she was a hooker, in a way. He basically paid for sex. Disgusting.

I saw the video of them together and there was no affection. She talked alot and laughed alot, he talked a little and smiled some. It didn't look like he was miserable and didn't want to be there, but he didn't look crazy in love with her. While all this info doesn't make the A okay, it does make it a little easier for me to take. I don't understand, but at least I'm not fighting him being in love with her.

sounds like a real nice gal!

I did full exposure to everyone! Didn't slow them down....cuz they are on a spiritual path and no one can possibly understand that. BARF OWH kicked her out and didn't want to talk to me at all.


Yes I would think that would make it MUCH easier.

BTW my story is Anyone willing to help me through plan B...if you are bored and want to read yet another A saga

KLD,

I hope you don't mind if I comment on how I think you are doing.
Parts of this are a review of what you already know - please stay with me until the conclusion.

It looks like you have read the material, and that you understand it well. From advice you have given others, I think you know the concepts.

From what you write on your own thread, you seem to struggle with making the plan work for you.

It does look like you need to move to plan B.

Remember that these plans are made to help you. The object of Dr Harley's material is to help you save your marriage, but it is also to help you cope with life. If it works better to wait until you have a job, you ought to take that into consideration, but keep in mind that the other things won't be on hold while you wait.

Plan A sets the stage. Sometimes it will, all by itself help the WS realize that YOU are what they really want, but usually not.

Plan B comes after plan A.
If you have done a good plan A, moving to plan B will show the WS that he is a fool for giving you up. He will realize you filled many of his needs, an that the OW can't possibly fill them. The plan B letter explains that it hurts you too much to stay with him while he is in an A, and that you are leaving him because you can't stand the pain, not because you don't want to be with him.

It should also include the road map of how to get back to you.
Things like -
Commit to the marriage
NC with OW forever
NC letter
Counseling to create a new and better marriage

It shouldn't be too long, and it should not be too detailed. Short and sweet, and to the point is better.

If he contacts you after he gets the letter, you can refer him back to the letter, at first, then ignore him if he persists.

Remember that there is a good reason that there are two plans, and that they are titled plans A, and B.

Though we would be foolish to think there is a 100% chance your marriage can be saved, we might also be foolish to think the chance is at 0%.

Remember that the WS NEARLY ALWAYS has a problem deciding what they want. In most cases they are not repentant, and they regress a time or two (or ten) before recovery.

I really think you need a good plan B before you will know for sure.

I hope you continue to pray, and I hope you know that there is someone on the other end of your prayers that cares, and that can and will help. Trust God to help......... he never makes mistakes, and he knows your limitations, and weaknesses. Keep asking him for help and guidance.

I encourage you to keep helping others. You are good at it, and you care. Both of these are good things.

SS

Hi KLD!!

Thinking about you. How are things going? Give us an update if you can.

Praying still,
WH2LE

SS - thanks for the Plan B reminder and the encouragement you offered in your post. I'm sorry I didn't respond to it when you posted, I just wasn't in the right frame of mind. I did take your advice, though, and got my Plan B letter written.

WH2LE - thanks to you for checking in on me. It's helped me alot to know that you're in my corner and really do understand where I'm coming from.

Things have changed in the past few weeks. WH and I had a serious discussion about next steps that he initiated. He told me that he does want this M and that he is willing to do what it takes to work things out. I told him that he must prove NC with OW. He must agree to counseling and actually participate. He must engage in our M. He agreed to everything and so far has followed through.

The part that I'm still uncertain about is contact with OW. There are no signs that there is contact, but how do I know for sure? I can't be with him 24/7 and I don't want to be. All his previous patterns of finding time to be alone at night are gone. He spends every evening with me and doesn't leave the room for extended periods of time where he would have been texting OW. If he decides to go out to the coffee shop or Home Depot or where ever after dinner, he invites me to go. He is warm, loving, and present. He is talking about the future and reminiscing about our past. This is something my "original" H would do - not the more recent, cheating one. He told me he is disgusted with his behavior but is on the road to working through his guilt. He told me that the fact that I didn't bail out on him is starting to mean more to him and he realizes that this has been a very difficult road for me. He hasn't reminded me that this has been hard for him, too, which was his standard retort before.

We will be going to counseling starting next week. We decided not to do MB counseling any more because WH wants to try someone different. Also, we can get insurance to cover to reduce the cost. (Those MB charges were piling up!!!! Worth it, but still alot of money)

So, when do I start referring to him as FWH? When are we really considered to be in recovery?

Also, I got a job offer on Friday. I'm working through negotiating a few details, but expect this to work out. I'm very excited about that and that the job is in Atlanta so no move will be required. If things take a dive in my M, my Plan B letter is ready to go and I'll be able to execute the plan without worrying about supporting myself. I will not hesitate to go to Plan B if there is any OW sighting.

SS - I just wanted to say that your latest post did help me alot even though I didn't respond. I read it many times and agreed that I have had trouble making the plans work for me. I also may be wrong for waiting to execute a Plan B, but I needed to stay here for me even though dealing with my M and WH was difficult.

I also feel like my Plan A had some weak spots that I felt the need to shore up. I think I've done a good job of that. If I do end up eventually having to go to Plan B, I will feel much better about my Plan A.

If our recovery continues, I feel I've done a good bit of the work I needed to do to be the W my H wants. That gives me comfort and a sense of pride.

Hi KLD,
I admit I was worried about you. Thanks for the reply.

SS - I just wanted to say that your latest post did help me alot even though I didn't respond. I read it many times and agreed that I have had trouble making the plans work for me.

All of us have problems making plans work for us. I laughed when I read that.
Not because you had trouble, but because it is human nature, and we all struggle with some things. I almost said "Welcome to the club," but it's not a club any of us are excited about belonging to.

I really hope you didn't feel like you were being called on the carpet for how you were running your plan, I just know it can help to review things from time to time.

I also may be wrong for waiting to execute a Plan B, but I needed to stay here for me even though dealing with my M and WH was difficult.

The whole point of the plans is to help you recover your marriage. If you recover, then your plan worked. How did they put it in "Pirates of the Caribbean?"

Captian Jack Sparrow "Why didn't you obey the rules of the code?"
Crew "We figured they were more actual guidelines."

Sometimes it's difficult to put your reasons and feelings in to words. I would imagine you didn't know how to explain what you were wanting to do, and why, and perhaps that is part of why you were away for so long.

I also feel like my Plan A had some weak spots that I felt the need to shore up. I think I've done a good job of that. If I do end up eventually having to go to Plan B, I will feel much better about my Plan A.

I hope you never have to go to plan B. I was worried that you were close to exiting the marriage with out trying it. Times were pretty difficult for a few weeks.

In any case, having a good plan A is important before going to plan B. You would do well to take the time to make that work well.

If our recovery continues, I feel I've done a good bit of the work I needed to do to be the W my H wants. That gives me comfort and a sense of pride.

All of us need to spend time and work becoming the person we ought to be, and need to be. This is independent of the recovery of the marriage, but often goes along with it.

Thanks again for the reply, and may you find joy in the journey.

SS

Thanks so much for your concern - but I didn't mean to cause concern. I really just needed to step back and get my bearings and pull myself together.

I didn't feel called on the carpet for how I have handled things. I do know how the plans work and I also know that people here work hard to help each other through the difficult times. It definitely does help to be reminded of how things work and that most situations really aren't all that unique. It was helpful to get the comments I was getting even though it was hard to hear some of it.

This sounds very encouraging, KLD! Especially the part about remorse and wanting you to go with him whereever - I doubt he'd be doing that if he were still in contact. Of course, you'll never be sure, but it sure sounds like the start of a recovery. I think he realized what he'd be losing.

I'm encouraged, too, Cat. I still have my radar up, though. Talking about the A is still extremely uncomfortable and there are things I want to say that I just haven't been able to approach yet, but I will as it makes sense. I know he could contact her while he's at work, but I can't control that and it really doesn't seem like he is. He has a work phone and that bill comes to our house. I looked at it last month and there were no calls to OW. I know he could have a secret phone, but I can't control that, either.

He has never been a "talker" about R stuff - even when things were good - so talking now is a chore. I try to not push too much because I have realized that we make more progress when we talk less often and just enjoy being together without the stress of nightly discussions. I actually even feel better about fewer discussions because I was always so emotional during and after them.

That doesn't mean that we don't talk at all, we do. It's just less intense and less often. I'm able to be more patient now than I was before. For some reason I feel less urgency about the situation than I did. At some point, it just kicked in that I didn't have to have a complete and tidy resolution right now. I still get a little frustrated when things aren't like I want them to be all the time, but I'm able to work around that much better than before.

I looked at some apartments online that are close to my new job. If it comes to Plan B, there are tons of apartments in that area that I could lease short term while I look for a house to buy. Rent is reasonable, they accept cats, and I'd be able to be comfortable.

The talking about the future is one of the things I find very encouraging. I noticed that he didn't have any interest in talking about the future or making plans at about the time the A started, though I didn't know that was going on.

For the past few weeks he has been talking about possibly selling the house and buying another one closer in to the city and closer to my work. We went and looked at a few houses over this past weekend. That was something we always enjoyed doing before the A even though we weren't thinking of moving then. We would take ideas in new homes we saw and try them in our decorating plan for our house. He's also started doing work around the house again to get it in shape to either sell or for us to enjoy. I'm supposed to go pick out some paint colors and backsplash tile for the kitchen this week.

I've been a little down about the job offer I got. The money was about $10,000 less than I had been making and I had really wanted to at least stay at that level. H reminded me that I still make a great salary and that together our income is very good. We can still do the things we want to do. He also encouraged me be reminding me that I've been promoted often and that I can expect that to happen here because I'll do a great job. I felt alot better after he helped me work through that.

He's also been reminiscing about our past. I couldn't tell you the last time I heard him say something like "Remember when we..." until last week. He has been warm and loving - not mechanical or withdrawn. It's been nice.

I truly hope I don't end up in Plan B, but I know that after this change in him if I find out there's more contact I won't hesitate to go to Plan B. I'll have the financial resources to not have to depend on him and the pain of thinking we were making progress only to find out he's still in contact will be too much to not go to Plan B. So, even though things seem to be on the right track, my back up Plan B is ready to go if I need it.

Do you know if your H is reading any of your MB postings?

I have something to say ... but not to him.

Pep

He doesn't read anything here at all.

His addiction to "helping" OW was strong, very strong. He's drawn to the "knight on a white horse" type of affair addiction.
I am not sure he can give up that particular ego boost without some episodes of backsliding.

My suggestion:

Secretly put a GPS on his car. Check his comings and goings weekly --- for a year !

If he goes a year without backsliding , he's trustworthy.

I am so glad you are personally doing so well

Pep

Pepper - I am doing pretty well myself. My concern about that is that I tend to fall back to depression and LBs when things aren't going well with H. I am aware of this, though, and am trying to make sure I stay on my own recovery path when things are less than good.

As for the GPS, I'll think about doing this. The problem with this, though, is that OW lives about 4 hours away and he only saw her about every 6-8 weeks or so when the A was active. Their main form of contact was phone and text message. To see her, he would need to plan to be away for a weekend and I know his pattern. I'd know for sure he was going there by his behavior and his plan. I could head it off at the pass or follow him to get more proof.

Any other ideas for keeping in touch with what he's doing when I don't know if he has a secret phone?

Well, the GPS might clue you in to some of his habits - where he drives to have a chat with OW .... like a park or something.

Copy all his keys.
Go through his stuff in his car and his pockets.
Go to his office (if he has one) and bring him a surprise lunch -and look around.

If I think of more, I'll let you know.

Pep

Even though things have seemed to be going well, I'm still on edge. OW birthday is Saturday. I'm waiting on H to pick a fight with me sometime this week so he can justify staying away from home. This is his normal pattern when he wants to see her. So far, there's no sign of this, but it's early in the week.

Last night he was so tired and didn't feel well so he slept in the guest room again. He's there again tonight because of same thing. He's been complaining for several days about not sleeping well and needing a good sleep. I'm worried that this is a bad sign, but am trying to not obsess. I asked him if there's something he needs to tell me and he said not at all. He said we could talk tomorrow. I asked him when he was pulling the covers up, so he was already detached and thinking about sleep. He gets very grumpy if he can't go to sleep when he wants to - this is something I've always known about him, so it's not new or A related. So now I'm wondering if he really wants to talk tomorrow or if he just said that to get me to leave him alone so he could go to sleep.

I truly hate this. I was thinking tonight that I just want to not be on edge. I do think we've made some progress, but I just don't know if it's sustainable.

I had asked if we could do something like an overnight trip or something like that before I go back to work and he said we could. Now I can't get him to commit to anything. This also is somewhat typical of him before A, but it got worse during A when I didn't know about it yet. This also puts me on edge, but it ticks me off, too. He knows this is something that's really important to me and it annoys me alot when he won't commit to making plans for a getaway. My Plan A brain says to give him more time to get back in the grove, but the other part of my brain says when do I start getting something out of this. That's too drastic, because I am getting something out of this - just not quite to the level I'd like. We're only just beginning the recovery part, so who knows how long this will take. Patience is sometimes difficult for me...

KLD!!!!

Don't you EVER let me hear you say again that patience is DIFFICULT for you. You are one INCREDIBLY patient woman!!!Jeeez!!!!! Got that? Look back over your posts from the last 3 years, put yourself in the place of a stranger reading them and ask yourself if there is ANYONE who could call this saint of a woman impatient!!!! Patience is PROBABLY one of your strongest virtues. That, and perseverance. Oh, and loyalty.....oh, and reliability..... I could go on and on and if necessary will, till you see this as truth. OK???? KLD is a great person/wife and has gone far and above what anyone could ever expect of her in a HORRIBLE stuation.

Your H may be experiencing withdrawal. Drifting in and out of the fog. As much as I wanted to believe my H was out of the fog quickly, I know it wasn't true. The bad part was that HE didn't get it either. I think you are wise to keep snooping.

I liked what someone told you about the "knight-in-shining-armour" addiction. It is what draws your H back to the OW. It was/is strong for him. Just be aware of that. If he picks a fight, call him on it immediately. Don't listen to his fog talk.

Sounds like you are on that roller coaster ride that we all HATE so much. Nice day, bad day, loving night, bad weekend, close and fun, cool and withdrawn. Up, down, around the curve and down again,then up, up, up, up, oops! down, and all in the dark so that you never know what is coming.

The Harleys actually say to be a nag about your needs. Bring it up again about needing an overnight trip. Assuming that you will experience complete recovery here, it is apparent from other's stories that even a FWH does not pick up the ball for some time and that you MUST take the lead in having your needs met.

It couldn't be much harder could it??

Praying,
WH2LE

Well, I'm worried that WH is with OW tonight. He called at about 7:30 and said he would be late and that I shouldn't wait on him for dinner. He said he was ordering pizza for the guys at work because their testing to get the equipment running was taking longer than expected. I could hear the normal stuff in the background from his work so I feel certain he was there. I tried to call him a few minutes ago and he didn't answer his cell phone. I called OW home number and it's now disconnected. I called her cell phone and a child answered and then hung up when I asked for her. I called again and got her voicemail. I used *67.

She lives 4 hours away and WH has never seen her during the week unless he was traveling to her city for work. He hasn't done that in a while because his new job doesn't require him to travel there. I don't know if she would drive here to see him during the week - she's never driven to see him before. Since a child answered her cell phone, I can't believe she's driven here because it wouldn't make sense to drive that far alone without a phone.

I feel like an idiot for believing his work story if he's off with her. I should have driven over there to make sure he was there. It's an hour to drive to his work. I've considered calling my PI to see if she will drive over there - she's really close to where he works and it wouldn't take her as long to get there as it would me if she's available.

He very well may be there, but this pattern is only slightly different than his other crap. There's always a story to make it okay for him to be gone (or a fight that makes him leave for a weekend) and then I can't get him on the phone. I may be paranoid, but it just doesn't feel right.