My H dropped the "bomb" April 19th, 2007 and has never looked back. OW was exposed in May of 2007. He moved to his own place in August. H is in DEEP MLC. He has told me and family and friends that he is never coming back home over and over and over again. OW is still in the dark and hiding after 1 year. I have caught them together more than once. So of course he has admitted to her to me but only me. He continues to hang around me off and on. We were still sleeping together alot in the beginning, on occasion then for awhile, now not for a couple of months. He has never waivered. Never apologized. Never given me ANY hope or second thoughts. He sticks to not wanting that life anymore. Not wanting to be with me again. NOT COMING HOME. He has threated to file for D over 20 times then nothing happens. Never even talked to a lawyer that I know of. We farm so he is here often. He is still very angry with me but why I don't know.And when I question he says he's not. He acts like he hates me.

There is soooo much more to our story and will post more later. I guess I am just asking with all that I've told you...

Is there any hope that my H will one day return?????

Welcome to MB. Gosh, what is it with people who farm lately? We've had several post.

He is saying the same thing that they all say. They all say they are never coming back.

Exposure of the affair is the first course of action - expose to kids, parents and friends. Affairs hate to have light shed on them.

He is probably angry because deep down he knows how ugly he is behaving, so it makes him feel better to be angry at you.

The starting point is Plan A, or have you already done that?

All family and friends + know about OW. Not by his admitance of course but they are not fooling anyone. They work together. Have for 17 years. They had a quick fling 16 years ago when H's dad passed away. Since then they were supposidly "friends" and I had "nothing" to worry about. Everyone knows about them at work too (factory), but know one has ever seen them together. Well know one that has admitted to that. My H is not stupid. He knows everyone knows, but yet he sees her only after dark. He's drunk alot of the time with her, or they go out of town together. Still after a year. He has said he's going to tell everyone and they will have to accept her, and yet he never does it.

A little over a month ago I caught his truck at her place in morning before I went to work. I went there, lost my cool and popped her in the eye. They just seen more of each other. A Little over a week ago I found her car hidden a few blocks from his place and she was with him. They were at his house and it was dark. I got him to come to the door and tried to get in after her. A year of just "letting" them be together, being "still" was finally enough for me. This woman told me in the beginning that she was doing nothing wrong. That she was 42 years old and could do what ever the h*ll she wants. Well I finally have had enough and am now telling them both H*LL NO!. H and I got into a physical knock down drag out. OW stayed hidden of course. Next morning he called to apologized. Said he knew he was wrong and was sorry. He said he told OW that he is not going to see her anymore till he figures out what he wants or is D or whatever he does, he's done seeing her. DON"T BELIEVE HIM FOR A SECOND. But I do believe he is not seeing her right now. I think they may still be talking on the cell, he sees her at work, but I think it's just a matter of time before they are together again.

In the beginning of this I did nothing but cry, scream, beg, plead, tried to reason with this man. Nothing. Then I tried to leave him alone, but be there when he asked. Be available to him. Nothing. Then I went to no phone calls, no visits, stopped seeing him. We had a couple of blow outs and he went completely dark. I had told him to stop coming here to hang out, he took it that he was not to come in the house. So he stayed completely away. We worked through that recently and he is around more. But nothing changes emotionally for us. He is so dead set on never coming home. He has NO feelings for me. This is what he says but even his actions towards me say so. We have a D16 and we adopted H's niece of 14 6 years ago. He about as much to do with them as me.

When I confront him, he gets angry and he swears he is going to L tomorrow. Game over! Time to move on! Time to get the ball rolling!. Nothing happens...His sane moments. He says he wants to go on living like it is. I live in the house. He lives in town. He keeps farming. I get to stay here. He pays the bills. Etc...It works for him.

Now, my H WAS a very PROUD, respectable man. When he puts his mind to something. He makes it stick. For him to ever admit he has made a mistake, that he screwed up and wants to come back home. WOULD BE HUGE for him. I don't know if it is even possible, but yet I keep hanging on to some tiny shred of hope in my heart.

Is it possible? Is there hope? Could he possible come out of this yet and decide to come home?

Have you read up on Plan A, bought Surviving An Affair, His Needs, Her Needs?

With G-d all things are possible.

What is plan A? I have read lots of books. I know they say than Can and many do come back. But...what is the reality of this?

Plan A is about showing him what a good wife you could be. You should keep yourself looking good, the home warm and welcoming. Ditch the angry outbursts, disrespectful judgements, and crying and fighting.

It also includes exposing the affair to work, friends, kids and family, and anyone else who might have some influence.

You should do Plan A for a couple of months. The you will switch to Plan B.

Affairs all end, so you can be very hopeful.

Yes, Plan A him.

Here's some links I posted on another thread:
***********************************************
Instead, take an inventory of yourself, and see how you can meet his needs. Put your focus on his needs, not on yours. Here's the basic article about ENs:
The Most Important Emotional Needs
and it includes the questionnaire someone suggested.

Even before the EN questionnaire, you might want to take the Love Busters Quesionnaire, which can be foud here:
Love Busters

It's even more important to stop the LBs than to start meeting the ENs.

I really feel I have done this plan A. I have done (am doing) the GAL, I have kept a PMA. I have exposed the affair, but he chooses to still keep her in the dark. I have kept still and positive around him. I have let him go.

Nothing...nothing changes, nothing matters...

TOH

From what I have read, you have done the PLan A and your WH is still cake eating. He has NO motivation to change his behavior because his ENs are being met by two women. Why would anybody stop eating cake?

If you've done a good plan A, you have worked on becoming a better person. You've learned what behaviors are love busting and you've learned to be a woman that any man would want to come home to. Plan A helps the WS see that. But you can't stay in Plan A forever because after a certain point you become an enabler of the A.


If you have not established healthy boundaries at this point, it is time to. And it's time to get yourself ready for a VERY DARK plan B.

Did you say that you had kids? If so there's more pre plan B work that needs to be worked out like visitation and such. If not, you just need to work out your financial situation. It's time to talk to a lawyer and get your ducks in a row. Plan B lets your WH see what life will be like without you, totally. It also is FOR YOU! You get to remove yourself from the daily drama of the A. You can ACT not react in Plan B. Plan B brings you peace and you protect what love you have left for him. You tuck it away. It doesn't get depleted by his horrid behavior that he is displaying for you to see and feel. You begin to recover YOURSELF. Plan B won't end your M, and it won't necessarily save it. It's for you to heal and protect your love. And as a result...many WS wake up and realize that their BSs are moving on. Many end their A because of it.


What I see is that you should end your Plan A on a very positive note. If it is for only a day or two (or as long as it takes you to get your ducks in a row). Get yourself an intermediary. Someone you trust and who knows what Plan B is about. They act as a filter between you and your WH. See, he doesn't get to talk to you directly in Plan B. He doesn't get to drag you in anymore. Your int. only passes along pertinent info ONLY. Nothing else. They use their discretion to protect you, but you set up the rules and make them clear to the int. An int is usually a good friend or maybe sibling. Then write a Plan B letter to him telling him that you love him and want your M, but you cannot live in a three person M. The pain is too great (something along these lines).

TOH, most people won't change their behavior until it causes THEM pain. Your WH hasn't gotten a good dose yet. He's loving that cake too much. Stop baking that CAKE!

Read everything you can about Plan B. Start writing your Plan B letter. Post it here so you can get feedback. It's time to take control of your life. He's been controlling it for far too long. Boundaries.....

If you have really done a good Plan A, then it is time for Plan B. Plan A should have included working on anything that he complained about before the affair, and making changes in YOU.

The affair is a year old and affairs seldom last very long. So you could do NOTHING and it would still end.

But since this is MB, I would try Plan B, mainly to protect the remaining love you have for him.

You say the two of you went dark to each other before. How did that go, and how long did it last?

I'm concerned that your behavior (popping her in the eye, and getting into a physical altercation) is helping the affair continue. Instead of having to face that they are living in a fantasy world, they can unite against you.

Okay,
Our sitch is so complicated and drawn out...

Okay, we farm, so H has to be here every day for chores. He has went back and forth coming when I am here then coming into the house and hanging out for a bit, to coming when I am not here (so as not to see me). Right now he is doing a little of both. I keep the doors locked when I am not home. For a time I told him that I didn't want him to come to the house anymore. It was too hard. He then told everyone that I kicked him out of the house. I eventually said NO THAT IS NOT what I said. I told him I did'nt want him coming here and "hanging out", drinking coffee with me, answer his OW's calls in front of me (that happened once), asking me to cook him breakfast, doing whatever works for HIM. So now he does come in, just acts more like this is MY home.

I have been to lawyers. I think I have one decided on if needed. I haven't done any paperwork as of yet. They both told me there is really nothing I can do to protect myself until I file for LS or D. Other than to keep a good inventory and log of all that we have and all that is going on. I have done that since the beginning. If I file for LS I cannot afford to stay here. H is still continuing to auto deposit his check into our joint checking. If we have to LS there will not be enough funds to pay for this place. SO we'll have to either sell this place or he'll have to come up with the funds to give me my half so that I can move somewhere else. I have suggested selling and he is adamant that we will NOT. I don't want to move. He doesn't want to stop farming. So here we sit...

As far as the kids, he's pretty much walked out on them as well. If I raise a stink about him not seeing them or talking to them. He is all defensive and says I LOVE MY KIDS...yada yada. Then he'll contact them a time or two, maybe even ask them into his place. Then nothing again. They are 16 and 14 and pretty much can make up their own minds whether they want to see him or not. Pretty much they don't want to too much. They are content with not seeing him much. I don't force the issue.

Yes we have both went dark towards the other. It never lasts. Extremely hard for me, don't know how it was for him.

And your right the first confrontation with OW did I think push them together. This last time I'm not so sure. I'm wondering if maybe just maybe the altercation with H and I might have just cleared some of the fog from his head. He seems to be thinking, and I am being nice but very still...more worring about me and my life and our girls. I still am having very bad days, but they are fewer. I am concentrating on ME.

TOH

I see your dilemma. But I also see that you are in nowhere's land. You are not in Plan A and you are not in Plan B. You allow your WH to get some ENs met by you (which would be more plan A, but then you talk about concentrating on YOU). So basically he calls the shots. You react to the shots he calls.

You can remain in this place for some time I suspect. I've seen some here who have and nothing changes. And nothing will for awhile. Either the A dies altogether or your love for him dies altogether. Don't know what will come first.

I understand the NOT WANTING to sell the farm, but there are consequences to his A and you shouldn't protect him from them. I do get that you and your kids will be affected by the selling at this point. But I'm not sure that it won't happen in the future if the A results in D. You are going to HAVE to protect your love for him if you are going to give recovery a chance if and when you get that opportunity. KWIM? Being around him and having your life "controlled" by him for so long will result in resentment. Big time resentment that can hinder and possibly prevent R.

I just don't know how long YOU can live like this and be able to maintain good feelings towards him.

To add,

The A will most likely end, the VAST majority do. The question will be... will you be able to recover? Recovery is very difficult. At this point you just want him back, but there will be sooooo much to work through if that should happen. You need to be in as HEALTHY a state of mind as possible. And dealing with his "stuff" day in and day out will keep you from being there. That's what a dark Plan B does for you.

I wish I was so confident. After all they have been seeing each other for at LEAST a year (if not longer). My brother is still with his OW for over 7 years. (D too) But they have a son together and things aren't the best between them.

Your right, I know the recovery will be extremely difficult. But given the chance I have that much faith in "us". But he has to be willing to give it that chance.

And right again, I do want him back. But not right at this moment. SOOOO much has to change, and work to be done with both of us. I am just wanting the R with OW to be done. And for H to actually turn my way and WANT to give "us" another chance. That is all I am praying for today. The rest is in God's hands, and I have all the faith in the world that we can make it. If only He wanted it.

You can be fairly certain the affair will end. The statistics say that 97% do end, and of the other 3% that lead to marriage, 75% end in divorce - usually within 5 years. So your brother has beaten the odds so far.

But the one thing your brother and his wife know about each other is that when the going gets tough, instead of working on things, cheating is the easiest way out.

Your best bet is to let your husband experience the consequences of his affair. The fact that he has money for a home away from home enables the affair. He is able to continue farming, working with his affair partner, and enjoying the fruits of a nice family to boot.

There is really no reason for him to end the affair, things are going well for HIM.

TOH

Believe it or not, the boundaries that you establish now and enforce now are the main stepping stones to your R.

What if your WH ends the A and comes home...he says OK I'm home, the A is done, what's for dinner?

The A was "allowed" for so long that he thinks that's all he has to do. Just come home. How is he going to act any differently? Why would he? He may even think that this is the way to go. He can have a little fun on the side and you'll still be waiting. Why would he change? What is going to motivate him to change?


Your boundaries.

Right now you don't have clear boundaries. He certainly doesn't see them. That's why he can step all over them.

I think you are right. And it seems that everytime I catch them together and throw a wrench into their little fantasy life. It does seem he comes to his senses some. He breaks things off with her and seems to "think" again. But it never lasts.

So...how do I change things up a bit? How do I set boundaries? What boundaries do I set?

The last time I went dark. I told him not to come to the house anymore. To stop asking me to come visit him, to make him breakfast, etc...I stopped calling, didn't answer his calls all the time. This just seemed to go from bad to worse. He alienated himself from me and the girls way more. He went to drinking ALOT. He stayed away from us as much as possible. If we were in the same place, he wouldn't even acknowelge me. If he did see me or talk to me, it was with hatred in his eyes.

That went on for awhile. Then I caught them together again. And said I was not going to ignore them together anymore. I have a ring and a piece of paper that says he's a M man and what they are doing is wrong. That I will not lay down anymore and let it happened. If he wants to be with her get a D!. He was angry as h*ll at the time. SWORE that he was going to the L the next day. Next morning he apologized. Never went to the L and has been nice every since. Maybe I'm crazy but it even seems now, (first in a year) he looks at me with "love and remorse" in his eyes. The hatred seems to be gone. But yet I still "feel" her there. He claims that he is not seeing her, but I don't think that is completely true. And he is still distant from me.

Oh no! This is not the way I would let it happen. There is no way in hell I would let him just walk back in here with his bags.

And he would not just do this. I think that is one reason he stays away. I think that he knows that there is so much work to be done in order for us to be together again. That it would be so much harder to try and fix this that to just continue on apart. I also believe that he has made up his mind that he is not going to hurt me again. That he doesn't trust himself enough to be able to come back to me and not one day for this to happen again. I think that he has promised himself that it's over between us because he will not put me through anymore hurt. It's easier for "him" to do that than to fix the problems.

The A was "allowed" for so long that he thinks that's all he has to do. Just come home. No I don't think he thinks this. If anything I think he thinks that it has went on so long so it means to him that it is really over between us.

So...how do I change things up a bit? How do I set boundaries? What boundaries do I set?

Well first of all I don't see any Plan A here.

Did you identify what needs you weren't meeting that left him vulnerable to OW? What does she do for him that you don't?
Is it sex? Conversation? Hanging out together? What does he get from her, that he didn't get from you?

Then, how did you change the dynamic? What did you do to meet his most important emotional needs? Did you show a permanent commitment to change and a willingness to meet his needs?

Getting into confrontations with him and punching her out is NOT PLAN A. Nagging at him about being a bad dad is NOT PLAN A.
Letting him have you both for the last year is NOT PLAN A.

Plan A is about identifying the things that needed to change in your marriage. Its about meeting all of his needs (in the way he needs them met) so that OW isn't NEEDED anymore. She can't do everything you do. She will fail. But right now you are failing too -- because you are still only meeting SOME of his needs, and allowing OW to fill others.

Forget all about Plan B and keeping him away or filing for separation -- UNTIL YOU'VE DEMONSTRATED THE ABILITY AND WILLINGNESS TO MEET ALL OF HIS EMOTIONAL NEEDS.

Your plan should be to commit to this for X number of weeks or months. Then, if he is not responding, you can consider Plan B.
And that might mean some significant changes in your life.
Are you ready for that? The farm will have to go. (and actually when it comes to the black and white of what divorce really means, I think he will come around fast!)

I suggest you go to individual counseling and start thinking about YOURSELF and what you want from life. Get healthier.
Get stronger. Know that you will be OK no matter what.