I cannot understand the problems people have with others going off line to discuss stuff with others. Thats THEIR business and between the two of them.

But, some vets here DO MIND. And I respect those guys enough to TRY and understand their position. These guys that take offense to it have demonstrated to me, through their posts that they are sharp and fair minded. So their objection to the practice must have at least SOME logical basis.

Now, ANY editing that isn't based on vulgarities, advertisements or obvious trolling, I find HIGHLY objectionable. But, as someone pointed out, its TOS and we all signed on with that knowledge.

I think I won't name any names, lest I stir up trouble for people who aren't looking for it, but I will say that I have made some VERY fine friends on this board. Two of them, with whom I exchange personal emails from time to time, are from other countries. One family opened their house to me for an overnight visit, when I was in their area; and although not vegetarians, served me the best vegetable noodles Alfredo I've ever had. When Neak's baby died, several of the posters here went to the funeral home site and posted condolences under their real names. We sent them each a copy of her first book in thanks. (If I remember correctly, but it was almost 3 years ago and my memory isn't as sharp as it used to be.) One offered to help me deliver an important message to someone in her city, but who I am not able to reach. The fact that I haven't done it yet is my fault, but in no way detracts from the generosity of her offer.

Several decades ago, I once had a lady will me almost $120,000 after I met her in the post office and we struck up a conversation, and ultimately, a friendship. Does the venue in which the acquaintance is made automatically render it ineligible? Should I have turned her bequest down because I met her where "snail-mail" was dispensed? Do I have to deny myself a good friend now because we converse by email? Everybody's entitled to their own opinions, but my own is, "No, why should I not be able to make friends wherever and whenever I find them?" And MB has been a great place for friend-making--a totally unexpected side effect of hunting for help during a very unfortunate time for my daughter, and our whole family. For that surprise blessing, I will always be grateful.

And you anonymous friends? You know who you are. I think you're great.

tl

TL:

I think it boils down to some people being more PRIVATE than others. I'm learning to try to RESPECT individual differences. I think it's based on a whole host of factors. For example, I come from a SMALL family and was raised basically like an only child, my father was an only child, etc....

So..I'm VERY PRIVATE and INTROVERTED...I don't even much like my own children coming into my bedroom, bathroom or closet and they "better not touch my things"..

TL, your post gave me the creeps, making me feel NAKED and VULNERABLE if I OPENED myself up so easily to STRANGERS...

I know a VERY FEW people on the forum by their REAL NAMES. I'm VERY SLOW and HESITANT about doing that....

TL, you seem so VERY DIFFERENT than me in many ways..so I find you to be FASCINATING...you are moreso my cohort here, though, in terms of age...verry interesting...

My idea of an IDEAL LIFE at 60 is more like STELLA, GETTING HER GROOVE ON..but with my DH..on some deserted island somewhere, sipping a pina colada...grandchildren, if I have them, can come visit occasionally but then go home...THAT'S ME...

Mimi, I respect your desire for privacy, but I also have made some wonderful friends online. Eleven years ago, I even flew to Seattle to spend 4 days with a group of online friends from another website. We had a marvelous time together!

We had posted to each other for several years at that point, and I think that you can tell a lot about someone by their writings. As in real life, you quickly get to know who's a blowhard and who is intelligent and thoughtful.

I moderate a private forum with a group of wonderful ladies who enjoy decorating and crafts. We are getting together in June for the weekend, and I'm looking forward to it with glee!

I actually have BETTER friends online than I do IRL, other than my best friend from First Grade. I've been very fortunate to have the same best friend for 51 years! My other best friend, who passed away several years ago, was my best friend for 25 years. Most of my friends are casual friends, usually because their husbands are friends of my husband. I have a good time with them, but we actually share very few interests, other than a local charity founded by one couple and that we all care about very much.

So, Mimi, while I do respect and understand your caution, I just wanted you to know that there are a lot of wonderful people out there, and I feel very privileged to know them.

And, for what it's worth, I would have no hesitancy in meeting you at all...based on what I know of you from your postings. You're good peeps, Mimi!

I'm LEARNING from you guys.

I may need to stretch more out of my comfort zone.

I'll ask you which post, but why don't you answer on the other thread and not divert the conversation here from its intended direction? If it's what I said last night that you're talking about, you don't EVER want to read the Saga. :eek: But that conversation, if you choose for it to take place, is for another time and another thread.

tl

P.S. I am an only child. And I'm sorry I gave you the creeps. Entirely unintentional, I promise.

Mimi, I have to smile at the thought of my formative years. Living in the same room with sneaksis, 6 yrs younger than me, I was 17 before I even knew the word privacy was in the dictionary, lol.

I guess everybody is different, which is just fine. I have lots of offboard friends from here, but am totally ok with other people feeling differently. I don't expect everyone else to be like me, and most people don't expect me to be/react just like them, either.

So sure, stretch your comfort zone if you want, and if not that's all good too!

I'M SO TELLING WHAT YOU CALLED YOUR SISTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

tl

Hello all,

Been sort of reading this thread and skipping through it. Wanted to say Hi to Lady_Clueless. I do believe I remember her from previous incarnations.

Interesting topic and I have a few thoughts on it, especially the off-line part of the topic. I have met a few of the MB people over the years in real life and have found them to be very nice folks. I also know of a few affairs and yes even marriages that have resulted from off-line contact between MB folks. Some started with Off line emails and moved on to real contact.

Given the very emotional nature of many of the threads here one can see why people need to guard themselves especially when around people who are also hurt and struggling to regain their footing.

I think the changes that have occured for a variety of reasons and I am not privy to many of them. However, I was really going to leave because I got sick and tired of posters pouncing on other posters when both posters were offering help to a person who started the thread. I notice the new TOS seems to slowed that down abit and for that I am greatful.

I don't think we all have to agree, but we do all have to remember that darned few people would lead their lives as we would lead it for them.

There is more I might say, but actually I think this site goes through phases. It has grown so much and the traffic is so heavy that it is a real job for the moderators. Further, the goal is to help people with their marriages and to my mind we can disagree about approach, but we don't need to argue about it. I think there was a lot of that going on.

Must go, but I have found what I have read of this thread very interesting.

God Bless,

JL

So glad you came back, JL.


Speaking of leading our lives, I saw a 2006 poem for the first time yesterday and posted a link to it on the Vacation thread. But it may fit here, too.

It's called The Dash.

Again, thanks, JL. I'm sure I speak for many.

Ace

Hmmmph!

Well, as a t/j, at least it was short!

tl

I have helped people take recovery off the board in a few cases for very specific reasons.

#1 - an aggressively hostile-to-mb spouse reading here and sometimes posting arguments, etc. It's a very unsettling situation and taking it off the board and helping these women find recovery for themselves, if not their marriages has been the best possible outcome - but posting here would have revealed their recovery plans and opened them up to outright sabotage.

#2 - I'm a spouse of an addict - a sex addict. His recovery was undermined on the EN board due to warped thinking of what SF really means and that there's no such thing *really* as a sex addict in context of what Kasey was dealing with. Sorry - it's real. And no amount of proselyting that porn isn't a problem in marriage will convince him or me otherwise. When other women encounter the same "feedback" from ignorant people who are pro-porn, they need a safe place and so I have taken it off the board to help these women find recovery forums for spouses of addicts.

I've been burned by off-board relationships, as my husband getting acquainted with one such person in his SA online group turned into an EA - I am very cautious about how often I suggest taking a recovery conversation off board. But I will do it if the safety of the woman, if she continues posting here, is in doubt.

It seems to me to be playing with fire to start an off-board conversation with a member of the opposite sex.

Even when we think we're fireproof, we only have to look at how many affairs start as online 'friendships' to know how easily these things get started. When the conversation - by definition - is about deep feelings and intimate relationships, you're over the danger line before you begin.

There was once an offshoot board of 'recovered' MBers, which collapsed in a heap when offline and online chat friendships strayed off the platonic path into inappropriate sexual flirting. And these were people who really thought themselves made of solid asbestos.

Seems to me that, if offline is the only way to help someone, it's a good principle to restrict it to same-sex posters.

TA

Absolutely!

I have had off line communications with females. Proper boundaries are all that is required.
I find that my strong suit here is people dealing with abuse. Since most of them are women, emailing or talking with them to help (targeted help...not counseling them) has and will be necessary.

I see no problem with that for people that know how to maintain boundaries.

MEDC, there are lots of situations in life where professional boundaries have to be in place. Between a male doctor and a female patient, for example. Or a female teacher and an adolescent male student. Or any situation where one person is vulnerable to another person, and depending on them not to exploit that.

However, we know that even those professional boundaries get crossed.

In the 'graduated MB' board I mentioned, one of the people involved was one I would have bet my house on to observe good boundaries. This was a person who was a BS, wise, intuitive, recovering a marriage with courage and maturity, extremely well-versed in boundaries...the last person I would have expected to cross the line. It happened the way so many things do...little by little, one tiny 'joke' that's just a little personal, then another one to self-convince that the first one wasn't really 'wrong', then a teeny revelation...I suspect this person thought they were observing good boundaries, without realising that their boundaries were actually shifting; it was just the feeling of keeping on the right side that was the same.

I wouldn't advise any vulnerable person to communicate off-board with a member of the opposite sex, unless it's a professional relationship bounded by regulations, codes of conduct, ethical standards - for both their sakes. And most of the people here are vulnerable, even the long recovered.

TA

all I can say is that I maintain boundaries...I know others that do as well. I have had numerous coomunications off board with females that needed help. There has never been even a slight issue.

I'm glad that many of you have been so helpful to others.

I can see where its been necessary in some cases. Like when a WS finds their BS on here. But its hard when you pour yourself into helping somebody, and then poof -- its all happening offline due to some cause. I'm not comfortable being an offline advisor.

I suppose why I am so sensitive to this "off-board" stuff is that is exactly how my affair started. Online. In a big group. Then a joke or two. Then IM's away from the group. Then it becomes inside jokes. Then it was phone calls.
Slippery slope.

And its so easy to justify those little steps -- and you don't ever bother to look at how far you've moved away from your boundries....

I agree very much with TA. We all know how affairs begin and prevention begins with good, solid boundaries and common sense. I belong to another forum with so-called graduated MB members and even some newer folks. Most of our spouses are also posting members so we know each other as couples. Posting as couples has not only enhanced our marriages, but has served as a protection from potential vulnerabilities. I know my H has really enjoyed meeting other people from this board. I have met some wonderful people on this board.