You do have that right, I respect your opinion. Your plan, however, is unlikely to lead to a happy MARRIAGE. Doesn't even sound like it is your intent. And that is your right.

Our goals are simply not the same, so it would be silly for us to use the same plan.

rprynne,

You aren’t the only one around here with a weird way of looking at things. I bet mine is weeeeeirder than yours.

For example, statements like yours are all over the MB forums:

"On any given day, our spouses are having some probability of staying with us, some probability of leaving us, and some probability of cheating on us. For simplicity, let’s say each of those is a 33.3% probability. When we don't meet emotional needs, the probability of them cheating on us goes up, the probability of them divorcing us goes up and the probability of them staying with us goes down. Say 45% divorce, 45% chance of cheating, 10% chance of staying with us. What she chooses among that list is up to her. But I certainly can influence the probabilities.

To be clear, influencing the probabilities is not causal. If I do A, and there is a 99.9% chance that B will happen, that remaining 0.1% means that A does not cause B.

Finally, a BS may have done nothing to influences the probabilities, or they may have done everything to decrease the probability that an A will happen. It still doesn't mean that it can't happen. Which means, the spouse is not the only thing that influences those probabilities. Be of bad character, have emotional problems, unresolved childhood issues, hang out in bars without your spouse, spend time apart, alcohol or drug addiction, etc, etc. can all change the probabilities.

So when MB says protect your weaknesses, or failed to meet EN's etc, it’s an effort to change these probabilities."

Now, the first thing this sort of thing has always made me think of is: people who commit adultery are automatons. Input x and you get y with z probability. People, as proved conclusively by WS, are Turing machines, and nothing more.

A good manipulator can make anyone do anything, right? That is what I think these sorts of comments are saying between the lines. The only spin here is that someone who has an affair was always more easy to manipulate than others.

People may be responsible for their actions, their choices, but not really. It was circumstances beyond their control.

I need to figure out how to use this excuse for myself in general. But then, I might hate having to think of myself as a robot under outside control and in a perpetual state of predictable actions.

I thought I married a real person with free will. Turns out she was nothing more than a product of her wetware, I guess.

With prayers,

I think THIS and being mislead about the state of your M is why you are having trouble with your recovery. How is your W now, krazy? Has she changed? Has she embraced the MB philosphy? Is she open and honest with you? What do you suppose is holding you in the resentment pattern? I know myself I have moments of extreme anger or pain when some trigger pops up. Sometimes out of the blue I want to tell my H I am done, I can't live like this anymore. The moment passes and I go on.

FF is probably correct Krazy. She has good insight.

All the lying, deceit, abuse, love, entanglement, planning, probable sex and the aspects of adultery in general are bad enough to recover from.

You got hit right between the eyes on D-Day. The visuals are going to be very difficult to suppress. Perhaps impossible. At least I have to imagine it. You saw it.

Oh, and the fact that she was pregnant at the time. That's a visceral violation of your very core, your manhood, your family and even your children that most men will have nearly impossible difficulties with.

If your wife were to ever step up and help you heal, help you recover, in no uncertain terms that would help. But it appears you are on your own there.

Have you tried IC? There are PTSD management techniques that really do help.

With prayers,

Krazy:
I submitted a thread regarding a question on SF and I do not appreciate your highjacking the thread and then the aggressive attack on MiMi. She was offering helpful answers to my question and the thread became a painful tirade against WS. Many of your comments were like salt rubbed into my already wounded heart. I don't want to envision H rubbing all over OW, or think of his "fun" thru this mess. He may have gotten some fun out of my pain but my H is squirming now under the thick rug of scrutiny he must live under in order to remain here. He is following the rules I imposed and he is making every move towards repairing the damage he did to our marriage. I am sorry for the pain and anguish in your M.

Aphelion:
Between our MC, his IC, and myself, we do not believe he has an addiction, per say. He says he was frustrated and listening to coworkers brag about the one website (they are swingers) and how easy it was to find SF there, he began visiting and over the year and a half had the 3 As. #3 just became a romantic A. I have all his passwords and I monitor his computer use. He is not visiting the sites now and when I questioned him as to whether he felt he wanted to visit there..he claimed he had no reason now.

So, what's on your mind about this stuff this morning, Wade?

Good morning MiMi:
I did receive answers to my question regarding the difference between A SF and marital SF and I was able to think about how I can not really compete with the adrenaline rush caused by the sneakiness and danger of A SF. It is fantasy sex and the only way it could've been so much better was thru the hurting of others. I have spoken to H about it and he did agree that the effort to plan his rendevous (she lives 55 miles away), and the effort to get his story straight, and then the danger of the meeting did build it up so it was exciting because they were doing something they shouldn't have. Kind of like a dare your friends make when you are in school. You know you shouldn't do it but the excitement of getting away with it builds up the experience.
So..my question was answered initially, but the raw attack on WS was very hurtful because the images brought to mind were like salt in an open wound. I know his anguish is fresh, but when I am trying to move on and repair my M, the comments of WS rubbing on each other or having fun while the rest of us pay for the hurt were out of place. Maybe I should have stopped reading posts but I thought others might actually be responding to my question.

This is EXACTLY what they become ADDICTED to...

He more or less agreed to that one. He said it was so exciting to plan the event and the excitement leading up to it built, and built. I think too that it was easier to plan their time together during the summer months. He used to tell me he was going to fish the Battenkill river which is a fisherman's dream spot here in Vt., and on 3-5 times he was supposed to be going fishing, he was with her. But, winters here are tough. He couldn't be with her from Sept. on, and that began to take a toll. The more she begged for time with him, he just couldn't make it away between work and weather. He works in a shipping dept. and he's right out with work from Sept thru Christmas. Then after D-Day, he spent 2 whole days with her and then called to come home. I think the fun of the thrill had worn off.

Looking back, I think D-DAY was actually the beginning of the end of my H's affair. The EXPOSURE robbed them of the THRILL of the SECRECY and PLANNING.

My problem was that I CLOSED my eyes to it too long, ENABLING the affair.

For YEARS, I bought into my H's lame excuses for his ABSENCES...YUCK..

Wadeallie,

I just wanted to apologize for hijacking your thread & making inappropriate comments on it.

Yesterday was an awful day for me...it's times like that when I need to be more careful about what I say, and where, both on MB and in real life.

I'll try to ensure that it doesn't happen again, and once again, I apologize.

Krazy

My H turned out to be very good at being secretive! I didn't have a clue!!!!
Here is this man who can't even hide a birthday gift, and he pulled off his As without any proof whatsoever. I also think that D-Day took the fun out of it. When I was blind to it, he could in good conscious keep it going, because "Gee, she doesn't know so she can't be hurt". But when I discovered it, the fun wore off, they had been caught, and the reality of having his wife cry and his DD18 tell him she was disgusted with him, and DS13 telling him he ruined our lives, took the thrill out of it BIGTIME. Then he sent OW a 'Dear John' email and NC written letter and she was scrambling then because he dumped her so fast.

Krazy: I accept your apology. It's just that thanks to many of your comments my day turned into a bad day also. I had hoped I was past crying myself to sleep, but I guess not.

Oh man....I feel terrible about that. Just write me off as an bitter guy who ran off at the mouth. It's easy to forget the power of the typed word, even when those words get me so worked up sometimes.

I hope you have a terrific day today. You deserve it.

I continue to find it AMAZING how MOST of them follow the same pattern..like it's written up in some SCRIPT BOOK somewhere...same with my H in his ability to be SECRETIVE and FOOL me for a LONG, LONG TIME...YUCK...

Wade:

I PROMISE YOU that it will get better OVER TIME.

I'm recalling how much PAIN that I was in YEARS AGO and folks told me the same as I am telling you...

I can say that I am really HAPPY now in MY MARRIAGE...

It's true that TIME HEALS ALL WOUNDS...but it does TAKE TIME...lots of TIME...

Krazy:
I will have a good day today, thank you, but only if I can shake this sinus headache. UGH! Something has budded out and it hurts!

MiMi: I told H that I wished I had found this site sooner because if I had read the list of Fog Babble here, I would've known instantly what he was doing, and it would have saved me 3 months of agony. He didn't believe he followed some set path because he was different but I told him he'd be surprised about how close he followed others in his patterns. It must all be human nature??

MiMi: How long have you been since D-Day and NC?

D Day: 12/31/02

REAL Recovery since 8/03

Then you're a real success story!
I know it takes time and I try to be patient but there are days when I wonder why I am putting myself thru this h*ll when it's so painful and I feel like running away. I just love that damn fool so much!