Ditto MIM. Not the stuff of romance novels is it ? * sigh *

"Blimey" is a word that should've worked its way into American slang a long time ago!

You didn't offend me at all, and I know we're cuckolds by definition, but one acquaintance of mine referred to me as a cuckold, and I almost laid him out.

It's almost a slur, like the N word or f_g (no, it's not fig or fog).

Well, ok, it's not quite that bad, but I think the term should be scrapped in favor of "betrayed husbands". I hate feeling belittled for giving my W a second chance.

Krazy anybody who hasn't been through this thinks we're feeble, anybody who HAS been through this thinks we're heroes.

Doesn't really matter what anybody else thinks though does it ? Apart from the missus of course

I'm not sure how to state this without coming across the wrong way, but I've been giving this a lot of thought over the last several months.

I had a brief exchange with another BH on another thread about self-respect, and he said that self-respect was no longer an issue for him, and I just can't get my head around such a concept, which seems to also be at the heart of this discussion.

You see, I KNOW that another instance of betrayal would lead immediately to Plan D, regardless of the alternatives, because I would still have to be able to look myself in the mirror each morning. I think I can get past this one "mistake", so long as I see it as an abheration of character AND my FWW remains repentent and remorseful, but a second occurance would prove otherwise.

To my mind (and admittedly, we all have different beliefs, values and tolerances), if we lose our self-respect, we have lost our status as the head of our families, and in effect, lost everything in the process.

... and for what??? To retain the companionship of an unfaithful W??? ... To show our sons how to accept humiliation??? ... To show our daughters that its OK to disrespect their future H's???

I have been seriously considering the value of MB, and I find it quite lacking WITHOUT the honest re-committment of a FWW. WITHOUT BOTH partners working together, this is all just make believe, and we're just lying to ourselves about the value of what we're fighting to recover.

I couldn't agree more! Well said.


I agree with this as well...with a bit of an addition. I think that MB CAN be helpful for recovery of the individual and not just the M. I DO think there are some people that are "marriage at all costs" types....and I am afraid that MB(or at least their interpretation of MB) can actually be harmful to them. I have also seen that while coaching with the Harley's has yielded GREAT results for the vast majority of people that there are some people here that after years of coaching still tolerate horrible conditions in their marriage.

Self respect and a willingness to walk away from a repeat abuser is important. If we all agree that infidelity is a horrible abuse...why would anyone CHOOSE to stay with a person that is repeatedly abusing them? To hear Bob P, who was driven to attempt suicide, say he wouldn't necessarily divorce if faced with another infidelity really surprises me. I truly hope FWS are not reading this thinking that they would get more chances to cheat.

This one isn't!!!

I KNOW full well that Mr. W would divorce me in a heartbeat if I were to be unfaithful again...I RESPECT HIM FOR THAT! Also, we are both following the MB program~we aren't perfect, but we do okay! Because of that, and all the learning that we've done along the way we feel confident that our marriage is affair proof...

FWIW, I also KNOW, without a doubt, that my affair was a complete aberration of character for me...

Mrs. W

I don't doubt this for a second.


Me too.

A recalcitrant wayward is abusive but sometimes they remain redeemable--BS’s often cling to that Holy Grail as if it’s a life preserver. What is certain though is that when you rationalize staying with a wayward, when the real inhibiter is (your own) fear, a world of hurt follows. When you do that, the abuser has won.

In no particular order:

I. > ” Blimey is a word that should've worked its way into American slang a long time ago!”

LOL, I agree. I also like Bob’s “Saints on bikes!” Although once when I used it in an email to 2Long I mistyped it as, “Suits on bikes.” Almost as good, though.

> “It's almost a slur…” (cuckhold). IMO, it’s definitely one of the greatest slurs one man can pour over another. It eats at our core being, covers every base and the entire outfield.

II. > “It's self control and thought diversions that will help you heal. You have to get control of your thoughts so that they don't control you. And this means when you start to drift and think about the A, you only have a few seconds before the emotions kick up. Before that happens (30 seconds or so) you have to stop the thought, stop the memory. If you don't, the feelings that you felt at that point in time will come back as if it's happening now. And then you feel like cr*p and it all goes to h8ll. Catch it before that happens. Do it all the time and it becomes habit and you slowly stop going there.”

Well, be careful what you wish for.

These unwanted thoughts were incapacitating me in bed as well as keeping me very unhappy in general. For a year after DDay 2 visions and HD Omnivision Technicolor movies were making it difficult for me to even touch FWW. Triggers were everywhere. I went to an IC for help and was taught how to erect stop signs and use various body and eye movements (biofeedback kind of thing). I got so good at it that whenever these thoughts came up I could eject them very quickly.

But, there are side effects. All urges go away along with the unwanted thoughts. I don’t know about women, but when a man does not have the urge his tools are not working either. Wife and I get started, a bad thought about her and OM rears up, I use my stop signs and both the thought and the ability to perform disappear together now.

I feel sort of neutered. Not that I care any more. I am fine with it. It’s been a couple of years now yet I am perfectly fine with it. Wife does not seem to care either. Must be because she told me OM was better. Perhaps deep down inside I do not want SF with her any more. But it even carries over to all other women. When I see a beautiful woman the first thing I think is ugh, sex with anyone would be dirty, hurtful, degrading, useless, awful and just like FWW and OM. Do this sort of thought control for long enough and the EN for SF goes away completely.

Go figure.

III. > “I know now there will not be another chance, ever.”

Again, be careful what you wish for.

Two known A’s, one lasting for 10 years with two DDays and I am still here.

Why?

The bigger picture.

DS. FS. God. Covenant of Marriage. Things are mostly better than they were during the VLTA. I still care for her, just differently now. Promises. Family. Companionship. History. Ethics. Morals. Various lower rank ENs.

I know MY life would be better if I had D’d right after DDay 2 of the VLTA. But DS’s life would not be. Nor would FWW’s life.

Staying is a small price, IMO. I don’t know what the future holds. I am not afraid. I am not in a hurry. I have time. An ocean of time. Who knows what the tide will bring in?

I will say if NC is intentionally broken or another OM crops up I would indeed end my M. For her sake this time.

With prayers,

ed: stupid spellchecker

Hi MEDC


It surprises me too, mate, but when I look at the facts, there they are.

Pre-A , I felt Squid and I had a marriage that was a real bond in every way - each others first and only, 18 years of life experience together, kids, loads of "firsts" and ( from my side) a deeply ingrained need to love this woman with all my being.

Those things, and ignorance of stuff like MB, blinded me somewhat to some of the LBs and unpleasant attributes of Squid.

Then she cheated and our bond was broken. Clearly for some time it had been only one sided anyway.

So once I came back from the edge and rebuilt myself as a self-actualized man who wanted but not NEEDED a recovered M, MEDC the scales fell from my eyes regarding the reality of our M.

After I killed the affair ( which gave me pride and dignity back) I had a hope for years that Squid might transform herself into a MB spouse, learning to make me happy ,with gratitude. But no.

So my marriage now is based on other things than it was before. She is a great Mom, a good wife, funny, smart, pretty and mostly fine to spend time with. The critical importance of fidelity and monogamy in my M was left on the bedsheets in those motels.

I find it very difficult to feel romantic love for Squid now. She is not "lovable" and isn't trying to be using MB.

She IS likeable, practical, great mom etc etc.

THAT and hope that God might turn her heart one day is what keeps me here. So her having another affair likely couldn't break my heart again. See it was never rebuilt. You can't break shards.
It would be a pretty hard hearted FWS who calculatedly exploited that IMO.

I still think this is due to the initial thought, but in either case it bites.

Personally those thoughts kept me from "enjoying" SF, but as for most women, I could still participate. That doesn't work for guys, I understand.

FWIW...if a second A happened, I'd be outta here. And I don't think that I would feel worse about the second as I did the first. It destroyed me. Now I'm prepared.

Bob, I hear you and understand where you are coming from. I must say though, that these words make me feel so sad for you. You are a good man and fully deserve a wife that spent the rest of her days repaying you for the love and kindness you displayed in taking her back.

I truly hope that she allows the hand of God to reach the places she has closed off to you.

It hurts to read some of these descriptions of the lives that some BH's endure, but they seem to represent the majority of the long time BH posters here at MB. (This DOES NOT include those long time BH's who are here with their FWW's) It is also why I have chosen to come here less and less, as these dysfunctional relationships are contrary to the stated purposes (as I understand them) of this site and IMHO do much more damage, by giving false hope, to newbies who are struggling against that initial fear of "what the hell just happened?", and "what do I do now?".

It is my further opinion that they would be better served by advising MOST newly BH's to protect themselves, their children and their finances by going straight to Plan D, rather than face a future as has been described on this thread.

It all comes back to self-respect, and as BH's, if we can't find respect for ourselves ... how in the world should we expect our WW's to rediscover any semblance of respect (and hopefully recommitted romantic love) for us???

... and even worse than that, how can we expect our children to ever respect their father's???

RESPECT is a legitimate EN in my book that is very often overlooked or completely ignored on this site.

i think the same goes for us bw's as well.

mlhb

MyRev - you are fast becoming a hero to me.

I can scarcely believe what I am reading here.

MrsW, MEDC, MyRev - I absolutely agree.

I have a marriage pretty much as good as can possibly be - much better than pre-affair - recovered by following Dr Harleys principles with my wife fully onboard. But I would NEVER stay if I was betrayed again. Go straight to Plan D and not look back.

Those of you who think you could tolerate another affair - I wonder if your wives know that and hence put in appropriate effort?

I am stunned by this.

I WILL NOT EVER STAY IN A LOVELESS MARRIAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!

EVER again!!

I didn't slay the dragon for that!

I am so glad I didn't see a thread like this when I was a newly BH 3 years ago.

I would have slashed my wrists if I thought that was what recovery looked like.

You wouldn't respect a father for placing his own indignation below the happiness and stabiliy of his children ?

I wouldn't actually and I doubt his children would either.

I really have to be able to look myself in the eye in the mirror each morning. That's just me.

You know, there are many things I do not understand about this world. Most things, truth be told.

I am a highly trained and practicing physicist with three advanced degrees in engineering, mathematics and theoretical physics. Yet I have come to realize I know only a dim reflection of this reality.

But I do know I could not look myself in the mirror had I abandoned my family after any of the DDays. Makes no difference how many DDays there were, actually. I could not live with myself if I ever cut and run, period.

That is still true today.

There are so many more important things than my ego, my so-called self-respect. There are more important things than my very existence.

******EDIT********

Perhaps, I do not know but I have faith, my sacrifices are what will save FWW.

What I want, what meets my needs, my most fundamental wants are not nearly as important as keeping my sworn covenant, doing what I promised. Doing what is right.

I firmly believe my temporal happiness pales beside the risk of her salvation.

I will never give up. Never.

With prayers,

ed: clarity, if possible