And by treading lightly you are taking care of yourself in the process?

Queenie, yes I am...

My primary boundary is that I will not allow myself to be lied to again. Her (grudging) discussion of what's going on with her was a step up from the standard "it's none of your business", or "I'm not going there with you".

My sense is that she recognized and understood that I was serious...and appeared to be making an effort in the direction of honesty...

I know things will not change overnight, but my finally recognizing my own power to take a stand is just that...my personal power, and it feels good.

bump...for inputs on conversation w/ WW on previous page...

Am trying to "actively listen" as well as I can...

Am thinking of asking her:

"OK, can you pls help me to understand why you are still holding out the option to "one day" see him again?"

L2F-


I wouldn't say anything to her-it would seem as if you are pushing for a response and in her foggy brain, she will twist it into something like "L2F is trying to control me" or whatever else the wayward alien brain comes up with.

My take on her statement that she doesn't know if she will ever see him again is that she doesn't want to admit that she made a mistake getting involved with OM. It's hard for waywards to think beyond themselves and how all this has affected them. They simply don't see that they caused all of it to happen by their own choices.

Just MHO

LTF
Been busy and have not been able to see how you R doing. I am praying that your WW will wake up and realize she is about to give up the most wonderful person in her life.

You R an amazing person your WW is absolutely insane not to see this.

JT, thanks for the insight...


I think you've got a VERY good point here...and FWIW I have been asking for advice b/c MY instincts often drive me towards direct confrontation...and we've seen where THAT's gotten me.

I am trying very hard to resist expectations, but her more willing engagement with me in the last weeks has been notable.

...waiting for someone to say..."but L2F, I thought you were about to go to plan B??!!"

Jim, much to my surprise, this brought spontaneous tears to my eyes...thank you, from the bottom of my heart.

I'm far from perfect, and have such a long way to go...but I also have learned so much and have so much to offer.

Been looking for your thread in recovery...how's it going??!!

...so does anyone think I should send her a NC letter w/ instructions to edit and send back to me or should I let it lie for now??

I'd table it till I returned from my TDY and handle it then. Come back ready for plan B.

I thought she said she had NC.

Why is she interacting with OMM?

How easily could you get your kids?

NC not verified...

Last contact I know of was a cursory email exchange about 6 weeks ago. Could still be talking on the phone, seeing eachother, but how she speaks about it and the tone of the email was...well, not indicative of "traditional" contact...just a one line howgozzit...."thinking of you"

Through this whole thing, OMM has become a surrogate mom. I've been engaging w/ WW's mom to try to get them to interact more. They've got serious baggage to deal w/...WW is oldest ACOA mom and dad died in a car accident when WW was 10...abandonment issues, etc., etc.

I've seen so many situations MUCH worse than this for children where taking them from one parent was still not warranted. She is mostly a GREAT mom...just not so much since the A started. She could easily be one again...

L2F,
Sorry you have to cope with this. However, that's where you are, and that's what has to be dealt with.

First let me say that I have not read your whole thread, so If I make a mistake, you can blast me, and I'll repent, and do this over.


I don't think you ought to send her a NC letter to edit. I don't see where she has committed to NC.

One of the mistakes we all make is trying to reason with people who are operating on emotion. You can't reason with someone who is unreasonable.

You just can't.

So, if you operate on the premis that if a=b, and b=c, then a=c, it might not work at all with HER.

Harleys plans are organized to make an impresson so that when the affairee finally comes out of the fog, you have a position to reason from. Right now I don't think talking to her about facts, and figures will do much for your case.

I recommend reading up on the carrot and the stick of plan A again, and talking (here on MB) more about that.

Often the BS tries to get the WS to come back becuse it makes sense.

The OP reels the WS in because they make the WS FEEL GOOD.

This is the logic/feelings thing simplified.

What are you doing to make her feel good?

You do need to be logical too, and run your plan with good solid thinking behind it, I am not saying you ought to be operating on feeling too. I am saying that you need to realize what she is operating on, and that your plan needs to be working from that angle.

Is this making sense to you?

SS

SS, thank you for taking the time and care to respond so thoughtfully.

You may not have read my thread, but your comments certainly have me pegged...

Yes, I'm the logical/rational one...yet in recent years my feeling/intuitive side have grown by leaps and bounds.

Yes. That's Plan A. My early plan A sucked...MUCH better this last year...

I read and reread the Carrot and Stick frequently.

This is where I think I have misunderstood the concept of the NC letter. I've seen it many times here where the BS pushes the letter upon the WS and it gets sent...then NC is broken...understandably, because the WS wasn't "ready".

However, there's going to be much waiting around if the BS doesn't broach the idea...so what comes first, the chicken or egg here??

As much as I possibly can! LBs are as far gone as I can see. I spend time talking and listening to her day, thoughts, opinions, etc. without judgment (of course very little of this is R talk at this point).

...epiphany, SS, one of the things I'm NOT doing to make her feel good is push...and that's what I've been doing w/ the emails, and what I would be doing w/ a suggested Plan B letter at this point.

This all seems to lead to continued patience...and lots of plan A.

Thanks again for the input, SS...and I hope you had a great day today!

I didn't want to come across as patronizing...... and hoped you would see in yourself what we see.

You just want to make this work, and that is good. It may be good to tell yourself daily that you can't MAKE her do anything. She has to come to WANT to do it.

As far as the chicken/egg and NC letters.......

You will help convince her, but she will make the decision. It is good to read up on Harley's materials as you go along. A good understanding of THE POLICY OF JOINT AGREEMENT is useful here. If she reluctantly agrees, it probably won't stick. This is a tough one, but you can't cut corners.

Have to leave for an appt. Hope you are doing well.

SS

I am fine things R great, wife is wonderful. Simply have not been able to post but wanted to keep up with your thread.

Will you be able to post while on TDY? Hope you R well.

I'll update my hread soon

God Bless

SS, you didn't, and I do...thanks.

How was the weekend L2F?

SS

Hey SS, thanks for checking in.

Well, I've been out to sea for almost a week, so the weekend was uneventful...at least from a marital standpoint...

My last conversation w/ WW was the one where she said she was not "currently in contact".

Have sent a few Plan A type emails since departing, but nothing to report.

She could very well have seen OM this weekend, or not...I really don't know. Trying to focus on the tasks at hand (which fully take up my time) rather than think about what she might be doing.

Many have recommended biding my time for the duration of this period away and then reevaluate upon my return. Good advice, and truly there's no other way as far as I can see.

That's one of the problems w/ military deployments...it makes Plan A pretty darn difficult.

Will do flowers for Mother's day, and will endeavor to send some nice snail mail letters...shows more effort on my part.

Spending more time reading other's threads this week...lot's of discussion about when and when not to go to plan B.

...trying to take it all in and evaluate my own need and timing to do so...

L2F

On one sense there are no weekends at sea. I didn't realize that's where you were. I should read back further on your thread.

You are right, it is more difficult to plan A while you are away.

I think you are on the right track though. Flowers are good, and snail mail letters do make a difference and show more care and concern.

I hope your W "gets it" and that coming home is a great help for YOU.

Hope you are mostly "up" these days.

SS

Anything new?

Hope your deployment is going well. Can't imagine how difficult it is to be away from home during this time.

Thanks for the support, SS.

While deployed, there are no weekends, but then you can also decide that there will be no Mondays either...

Hi Jim,

Actually, it's a nice break...

Working hard, doing what I love.