The following email was sent to me by my ex. It was not intended for me but was intended for her lawyer.

My parents are coming to town to see me and support me for my hearing over custody on 2 June (a Monday).

I am supposed to have the kids the weekend prior and have them on Wednesday nights. I'm merely asking her if I can keep my sons for the night on Wednesday and if they can stay over on Thursday night, when I don't normally have them.

My parents live in California and Indiana. They don't get to see my kids much.

My mom came into town for our last hearing and had a conversation with my daughter the night before she saw her. The conversation was a pretty standard one you'd expect to have with a 5 year old.

DD5 mentioned that she had to see a "playmate". My mom, not knowing what she was talking about, asked her questions about her "playmate". Turns out the "playmate" is my daughter's therapist.

My mom then told DD5 that she brought her and her brothers some toys to play with from my family in California.

My ex denied my parents the ability to see the kids the next day and she sent a letter through her lawyer claiming that my mother was "interrogating DD5 about her therapy" and "bribing her with toys".

You can imagine that my mom was pretty crushed by this.

My ex is also upset that I chose my summer vacation time to include weekends she was scheduled to normally have the kids. This is done to maximize my time with them and not for the reasons she claims I supposedly do it. But the idea that I may wish to maximize my time with my kids and the time that my family has to see them never crosses her narcissitic, wayward mind.

So these are the emails. First is my request. It's followed by her response intended for her lawyer, not for me.

-----Original Message-----
From: pomdbd3
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 9:50 AM
To: exww
Subject: RE: vacation


Very well.

My parents will be in town for the 2 June hearing. They would love to have some extra time with the kids. I ask that the boys stay over Wednesday and Thursday on 28 and 29 May in conjunction with my normal weekend. I hope you're willing to accommodate this reasonable request.

pomdbd3



Her attempted forward to her lawyer:

Exww's attorney,
Should I respond to this? If so, how? EVERY single time his family comes has been during time he is not scheduled to have them. Every visit has been where it's not during his time and then he writes me asking for extra time...this happens EVERY time. He then emails me each time so he can "document" and always words it to seem like I'm not cooperating if I don't. This is also why I wanted to send that email to him yesterday because he always does this to me but thinks nothing of being a jerk about scheduling every vacation each summer on my weekends (he did it last summer and now this summer). I also don't want to give the extra time because I can't stand DD5 even being there as much as she HAS to while they are there right now after the last visit and his mom questioning her.





I responded with the following and a very obvious CC (with all of the above in the body of the message) to my lawyer:

From: pomdbd3
Sent:Thu 4/24/08 9:13 AM
To: exww

Cc: pomdb3's lawyer

I think you intended that this go to your lawyer, not to me, but thanks for sharing your thoughts.

pomdbd3

Inputs please! Bump!

Wow, talk about waiving the attorney/client privilege! Yikes. She blew it big time.

As for the content, seems like she's already made up her mind about granting your request, she just wanted her attorney to back her legally. That is just wrong to try and keep your daughter from seeing her grandmother. I'm a grandmother and I'd be po'd.

Her email to her attorney DOES show her true colors. Betcha she was mortified that you saw it. I think your attorney could reassure her attorney that your mother was in no way interrogating her grandchild, she was just being a grandmother. This sounds like a misunderstanding and in the spirit of cooperation her attorney should encourage her to agree to the additional time.

We've said that all along, but my ex sees things differently. You should see the looooooong response I got from her in an attempt to get the foot out of the mouth.

My mom asked DD5 questions. My mom had no clue DD5 was talking about her therapist. I had to tell my mom that afterwards.

My mom then mentioned that she had gifts for my daughter from our family in CA.

Somehow that got twisted into "bribing with toys".

This situation is a very good example of how kids end up being the victims of the crossfire between parents in a custody dispute.

My kids still ask why they couldn't see their grandparents when they were here.

My mom is still hurt by what happened.

My dad hasn't seen my kids in over a year and a half.

Apparently asking for an extra night or two in the one or two times a year my parents visit is too much for her.

I don't use the kids as weapons and I don't forbid them or restrict them in any way from interacting or calling my ex's parents from my house.

If something happened to my ex and I would not keep her parents from seeing or interacting with the kids.

If something happened to me? I don't think my kids would ever get to see my parents until they got older.

It's sad.

All I want is to be near my kids and part of their lives.

Wow, I can't even imagine how hard this must be for you. I'm sorry you are going through this.

This might seem stupid, but maybe you could keep a journal of your hopes, thoughts, desires for your children and give it to them one day so they know what you were doing, thinking during this time?

It's difficult because I don't want to have them be upset with their mother over what happened in our marriage and her cheating.

I'll tell you what is very funny in a sad way:

My ex says in her email at a few spots to me, "trust me" and "to be honest".

Hmmmm.

Conclude whatever you wish from that.

Wow, she's unbelievable.

I simply do not understand it. Grandparents coming in from out of town is a special occasion and I would never dream of denying my children this. She is one of the most selfish women I've ever heard of!

Even if my ex wants the kids for a special ballgame or trip I try to accomodate him. I do not want my kids to miss a thing- because that's punishing them for our divorce- which had nothing to do with them. Disney? Sure. Stepson's first ballgame of the season? Sure. Regardless of who's day it is.

Then we work in additional time later.

She is still so incredibly angry at you- that's apparent.
Just wow!

Hey Pom...I had to laugh...

My WW once sent a text to me meant for OM...funny how the brain works sometimes.

I agree w/ CW that your WW is mad...something that's appears to be one way of dealing w/ her guilt...kind of a "best defense is a good offense" kind of thing.

When the soul is at rest, anger tends to evaporate, eh?

P

My best guess is that's she's just angry that after ALL THIS TIME you haven't just conceded it all to her, made friends with her and OM, and trusted her to decide if and when you'll get time with the kids.

It's the ultimate wayward entitlement being "I can abuse you, betray you, deceive you, brutally rape you in divorce hearings and custody matters, negotiate in bad faith, attempt to move away from you with YOUR children yet claim it's in their interest, use the kids as weapons to get you to just be nice, but I'm still entitled, dang it, to have you be friendly with me and kiss my butt because THAT would be in the best interests of the kids. Further, why can't you just trust me...I'll be fair, honestly."

Your ex-wife is oblivious to the fact that it's HER anger at not getting everything SHE WANTS that is holding the process up and keeping her enmeshed with you. It's projection wherein she misplaces her anger upon you. Perhaps it's also an indication that alls not happy in affair divorce land and she realizes she misses YOU (the pre-divorce you...why can't you go back to being HIM). From all I've read you're not angry, just concerned for those kids and wanting to legally maximize your time with them AND protect them from a mother that's only 1/2 the mother you once knew.

She's got to understand that having you in her life is NOT HEALTHY for you, she has no legal right to demand it, it's not appropriate modeling for your children to see you, their father, cuckholded and abused further by their adulterous abusive mother, and, if and when you DO meet a significant other it's a healthy Harley type boundary to maintain NC (to the extent you can with kids involved) with any former lovers, spouses, girlfriends.

She's got some balls pleading with you for "decency". It's borderline psychotic for her to demand anything of you. She's the one that should be conceding it all to you and TRUSTING YOU in ALL HONESTY to see that SHE remains in those kids lives. Which, unlike her, YOU'D MOST ASSUREDLY DO.

God bless you and may some judge out there be wise enough to see fit to place those children primarily with you, the only REAL parent that they [currently] have left. I'm will always remain hopeful your ex will become truly repentent...even if she remains your ex-wife as ONLY THEN could you truly have a working co-parenting relationship with her. [repentence is MUCH MORE than an apology though I bet she's failed to offer even that]

Mr. Wondering



Examine your values and understand that you must choose one side or the other. Any compromise between good and evil only hurts the good and helps the evil. - John Galt [annotated] "Atlas Shrugged"

Can I ask you a question, What are the consequences for her actions? I have not read all of your story so I do not know?

Let me guess did you plan "A" and get walked all over? Did it just make her feel more entitled? If that is the case then why should she not demand everything? What are you going to do about it?

I have found that nice guys usually do finish last. I would have the meanest SOB of a lawyer since it would be well worth the money but most of all she knows the harder she pushes the more she will get. She feels no pain.

Do I have it right or am I completely off base? Once it is divorce the time for Mr. Nice guy should be gone. I feel bad for you and your kids.

We've been divorced for two years.

And you are right, nice guys do finish last.

I went to my therapist last night. She was very kind to see me at the last minute.

I forwarded her my ex's email. My ex wrote me a very looooong email, justifying, accusing, rationalizing, and explaining.

My ex accuses me of being angry.

A super brief summary: I deployed for the war. Was gone two months. I experienced things out there that made me treasure my wife and family. I imagined I was home every night when I lay in bed, picturing my wife's arms around me so that I could fall asleep while jets and noises roared overhead.

I came home to be greeted by "I want a divorce" the day I got off the plane.

What did I do? I did everything wrong. My therapist says that what happened to me at this point is a terrible injustice. She says that my exww took advantage of my trust, my feelings, and my love to manipulate me into a divorce I didn't want. She made statements to me such as, "I have hope for us and believe we'll be back together after some time apart to heal." I was told not to make it difficult if I wanted us to have a chance.

So, in my very vulnerable state of mind, I believed her. I trusted she was being sincere. I signed the dotted line in a no contest divorce.

Well, that was her license to run off, be free, and act single again.

What happened to me? I was devastated. I was suddenly unemployed (separated honorably), separated from my kids, watching as the woman I loved so dearly went out left and right with guys she was meeting on myspace and a creeping realization that I had been bamboozled by empty promises.

It didn't help when she moved a man in with her and I sat on the sidelines financially broke and witnessing another man move in to the home with my children and full of the things I bought.

So I had to put my life back together and battle my way through the emotions of devastation.

It's been two years and I've risen up again to stand on my own two feet. I've let go of the anger.

But my therapist was very interested in the following words my ex wrote me:


My therapist started talking about an abuser's mentality. An abuser doesn't comprehend the devastation and pain they inflicted on the abused. She said that an abuser frequently says, "Geez, it's been two years. Why can't you just get over it?"

The abused, she says, can carry the pain, hurt, and anger for years after it was inflicted by an abuser. The abuser can't understand why they can't just "get over it and move on".

She said that for healing to begin an abuser must apologize as a first step, and genuinely recognize that they inflicted this pain on the abused.

But she said that I won't get that apology so the burden of moving forward and processing my pain is all on my shoulders.

That is my cross.

She says I've come a very long way and am doing very well. She said I still have a ways to go to let go of the past, but that I've progressed tremendously.

She also said she would help me learn tools to get past that pain.

I will share those tools with others here because there are many people on this board who are just like me in that they have suffered this terrible injustice and betrayal and are trying to heal from it while coping with unrepentant people that they love or loved very deeply.

I have more to add, but I've made this long enough. I'll add more of what she said to me last night in a little bit.

My session with her helped me a lot and I hope that sharing some of what she said can help others here. Mr. W's assessment in his post does a pretty decent job of summarizing my ex's mentality and approach to what she did to me and to our family and children.

I would send your ex what you just said that your IC told you about her. Tell her when she apologizes, you'll let go.

Once you have the kids, of course.

I wouldn't bother sending anything to her - since this has been a psychological warfare from the get go, and she's also constantly moving as he tries to accommodate her location so that he can be closer to the kids, she moves again.

Just like Harley says, you don't try to educate an actively wayward spouse or ex spouse. It's wasted effort.

This is a deliberate attempt to move the children out of their father's life and supplant him with her flavor of the month/year. She doesn't care that children NEED a relationship with their daddy. She only cares that she's not easily getting what she wants, and that it's costing her money to continue pushing him out of their lives.

Wow. Just totally...wow, that blew my mind. I don't really have any advice to offer, just my friendship.

And since it appears that I'm travelling down the same road (some of the things your exWW said could have come from my WW's mouth), I appreciate the opportunity to learn from you. I thank you for sharing this.

2Lives,

A WW is oblivious to the pain she is inflicting on you and the children. They've rationalized in their heads all they've done. They are good guys in their heads. All they want is to be happy and can't understand why you can't just be happy as well.

They neglect to see the betrayal, hurt, pain, anxiety, destroyed dreams, separation from the children, and destruction (in my case serious health problems), that they inflict on you, as a BS.

They don't care or are too scared to face the truth. So the attitude is, "Hey, get over it. It's been two years. Sure all our memories, times together, home built, kids born, family times, laughs, tears, and effort meant something to you, but it's been (x amount of time it should allegedly be ok to get over all of that) and it's time to just let it go! Why can't you just move on and be happy for me and hang out with me some day with your new woman and we can all be one big happy group? I know the betrayal and lies hurt, but come on! Get over it now! For the children, of course."

The best approach to all of this is humor, prayer, and friends.

Tomorrow I will do my best to put all of this out of my mind and enjoy watching DC United kick Real Salt Lake's butt....I hope. I'll be in the section where people are singing and jumping up and down and dancing.

I had a great weekend.

My buddy drove up from his training and we hung out all weekend. He helped me get a box spring for the guest room and helped me take some extra junk to the local landfill.

My house is really feeling a lot more like a home than a "man cave" now. It's great.

We went to a picnic on Saturday for Christian singles and it was a lot of fun. It looks like a group I want to stay involved in, though there weren't too many women in my age group.

The woman I really like was there (she invited me and the rest of my D group). We hung out and chatted and we then headed into town to watch the DC United game. That was great!

We sat right next to the "nest" where the rabid fans sit and sing and dance the whole game. We joined in the chants and were close to the fun but separated enough to do our own thing as well.

We headed home afterwards and I called her up the next day after my buddy left to ask her out for sushi.

She declined the sushi but asked me to come over to help fix her computer.

OF COURSE I'D LOVE TO!

So I hung out with her for a bit and we chatted. She shared her feelings with me. There's a certain hole in her life she's trying to fill after her D and she can't figure out what it is that is making her uneasy. She is training for a marathon and is just one year past her D from someone she'd been with for 10 years and was married to for 2 years.

We discussed the common feelings of being BSes and how insensitive our WSes were/are to the destruction they brought into our lives.

The difference between her and I is that she doesn't have to deal with her ex at all. I have to deal with mine all the time and she's actively trying to remove me from the children's lives.

My ex can't understand why I didn't do everything as she envisioned after our D and is truly not sorry for what she did.

So my friend and i were talking about the broken dreams and the way we imagined our lives to be at this point versus how they were.

I thought about that a lot when my friend was here. There was a certain sad absence there and a sadness. I have a house full of children's things and toys, yet no children there to make noise. I think my friend was very sad to see the new reality I was living when he remembers a family that were dear friends of his and his wife.

So I hung out with her for a while. I like her. She's very attractive and fun to be with, but she's not ready for anything.

It's going to take a while for her to feel "normal".

I dont' know what my "normal" is since I was starting to settle into my new reality and my ex keeps changing things on me.

What incentive do I possibly have to stay where I am when the only reason I moved here was to be near the children and they're now moving away?

So I settle somewhere, start putting down roots and making a new life here when the ex decides she wants to turn everyone's life upside down again and move.

I can only hope the court puts an end to the instability.

Thanks Brit'sBrat!!!!

Excellent legal strategy!

So much pain. My heart goes out to you, man.

You have a really good handle on things--the wayward mindset, what makes sense for you to do and what doesn't, what to let go of. I think this will help you more quickly get to a place that doesn't suck quite so much.

Keep up with the counseling. You'll get there.

Nice guys only finish last if you're running that kind of race.

Thanks for the advice, BB.

Thanks!