Hi, I'm new and I've spent the last week reading everything on this board.

I've had long-term difficulties with my marriage but WH to my amazement has just told me he wants to move back in and he's coming over tomorrow to talk. This is what I've been using every tool I can think of to get, but now it's happened, I'm not sure what to do next.

Better let you know the background.....

It's my second marriage, his first. I have one grown S from first m (that husband strayed and I threw him out) and we have one grown up D. We're both older (me, 62, H, 58). Been together 25 years.

We have two residences. One main that I live in and an apartment in the city where H works that he is in during the week. He's now saying that this arrangement was an obvious set up for him to stray, but in fact, we did it this way because for years I was looking after my dying mom.

Trouble began 4 years ago when I got a phone call from Hell aka the OW who briskly informed me that she was seeing H and that he would be moving in with her. That call shattered my life. To make it short, he said that he didn't love her, it was just sex and he would end it. I discovered later that they carried on seeing each other for a while after that.

Background: We have had long term physical problems. H went off sex 15 years ago and I thought this was down to health problems. He let me believe this. It was just too hurtful for me to go there in '04 and I didn't know what to do, so I didn't. Basically, he now says that he can't do it with me and doesn't know why. This is obviously Hell for my self esteem but leaving that aside......

He never condemned the OW that called me for what she did. He always defended her. Turns out their A began in '99 and though he kept saying she meant nothing to him, it emerged they'd been on holidays together and other stolen treats. It was obvious she was doing everything she could do insinuate herself into his life and to destroy our marriage.

She must have been really angry when he wouldn't leave me and our D (who H dotes on. He has always been a wonderful dad). I gather that the A drifted away in 06 just after I met her at a work meeting (we're all in the same field) for the first time. I was shocked when I saw her....a really ugly, mean looking old woman. She's late 40s and obviously absolutely desperate for a man. H says she's a single parent and that her S and D are the same age as our D. I told him how I felt about his betraying me with such a low-life and the A ended.

I've always told him that my feelings for this OW (I'll call her OW1) are extreme. I hate her and I know she has done all she can to destroy my life so why shouldn't I? He says it's all his fault and he always defends her and won't say a word against her.

This is the worst bit to tell next. I almost can't get it down.

In Feb 07 he revealed to me that he was having another A, this time with a women 30 years younger. We'd been having a really difficult time and he had been very cold to me. He'd actually invited this girl to a party I gave and she turned up, so I've seen her too. She's a dumpy shallow girl but she somehow managed to get my WH to be madly in love with her and he left me for her in June, 07. She was just playing games though and as soon as she'd got my WH split with me she dumped him and she's stuck with that. He'd been going nuts since he confessed to me. Crying, not sleeping and desperate. I tried to help him while dealing with my own agony. We stayed together until June for the sake of our D.

After we split (I wanted to work on our M but he just wanted out) we carried on talking. Then he got cold and weird although we stayed in regular contact.

I began to try to get life in order, to sort out money but he would just stall. I felt like he was holding onto me and pushing me away and I begged him to stop. He came back for a week at Christmas and then left before New Year's. He would owe me money if we split- quite a lot, but he wouldn't get near to sorting it out.

I have been in such pain. Not sleeping or eating, crying all day and so destroyed. I wrote him emails telling him what he's been doing to me and requested many meetings to sort things out. He confessed to another former affair in the early 90s.

Finally he told me that he was seeing OW1 again. That he'd called her after we split and she'd basically been with him since. This was in Feb.

That's when I gave up on him. I vented whatever I had to, told him he'd destroyed our lives and I told D. She wrote to him 2 weeks ago to say she wouldn't see him again.

Last week he said that he's dumped OW1 (the saint who helped him, in his words) and he wants to get back home.

Obviously it's because he can't bear to lose everything for the skank (he still says he doesn't love her by the way and if you'd seen her you'd know this must be true). Family and D means a lot to him and it's the centre of my life.

I have been trying so hard to get him back but now it's happened, I'm terrified. I feel so angry and hurt but I've obviously got to keep that back a bit. Our problems are worse because we're older. I have to face the fact that he's probably back because he wants the whole package not just me. I'll live with that.

BUT....I can't take infidelity and I don't want him to see OW1 as well as me. He's promised that he'll never speak to her again for the rest of their lives but how can I trust him?

I really don't know what to do. Anyone been in a similar situation?

Thanks for reading this long mess. My heart goes out to us all in this horror story.

I cant really give you any advice, but I can and will pray for you.
{{{{HUGS}}}}

nztami,

Thank you for your prayers, they mean a lot to me.

My WH and I are of the same faith; the OW of quite another. I hope that this may help us.

Blessings, Honoria

I hope you are reading about all of the conditions for having him back in your life. He should write her a no contact letter that you read and send. It should say he made a big mistake, loves you and wants his family and let her know that he wants no contact with her FOREVER for any reason.

Also you living arrangements need to change. That is just a set up for an affair.

If you let him come home, he needs to be an open book, account for his time away from you, and let you have access to his phone and computer, or however he contacted the OW.

The fact that he says he can't have SF with you would be a deal breaker for me. Why should you settle for that?

Thank you for thinking of me.

I've only started really thinking about these things since he said he'd come back. I didn't think that would ever happen...

So you're right that I'm slow in working out what I want.

I don't want him to contact OW1 or any other OW ever. But how can I be sure.

I don't know what to do about the separate homes. I don't want to move to his city because I don't really know anyone there and what if it doesn't work out?

The hardest bit is the no SF. I've always found it really humiliating and it's worse now because I realize that there is no health problem. He just doesn't want me. I'm presuming this is a variation of the madonna/whore thing and I'd like us to get therapy, but he says he doesn't want it.

I suppose at my time of life I just want him back, for my D, for companionship and so I can hold my place in the church community. If only I can restrain my anger and hurt this might work but that's what I'm really worried about. How do I get over the anger?

Honoria,

At one point before I discovered my H's affair, he told me he never needed sex with me again.

He was a liar.

Do not put so much weight on what he said while he was in the affair. He was stupid. Most of what he said and did was stupid.

You cannot hang your relationship with him on what he said then, and you need to really come to understand that.

He was lying to OW1, to you, and to OW2. And to himself.


Really, really, really - come to an understanding about that.

He also needs to focus on what his life was, and is.

He was seeking something. He did not find it in OW1, 2, 3, because that which he sought simply does not reside outside of himself.

The concept of the Madonna/whore issue? I'm not sold there. I think maybe this is the simple cheater issues you are facing. Perhaps not, but definitely you two need to get into therapy.


As far as moving into the city? If you don't, you face no chance to save this marriage IMHO. You have to be together to worok on the marriage, and that means you have to be with him. He spent too much time alone - and my guess is that this set him up for someone else to meet his needs. Enter the OW, and he was fed. A perfect scenario for affairs.

Sit down together, and fill out the Emotional Needs Questionnaires. You each do one. Then, you exchange them and look carefully at what the other person's needs are. Chances are, you both have done a terrible job of recognizing and meeting one another's needs. How could you possibly do it when you don't even live together?

Move to the city, woman!


Become his girlfriend. Even though he "thinks" you are not sexy, you need to get your sexy on. You remember how to do that. You need to think of yourself in that way, too. It starts in the mind.

Read "After the Affair", or "Surviving An Affair", or both.

Spend at least 15 hours a week together, and understand that time together means POSITIVE time, not affair-talk.

I understand the concept that he wants the whole package. While you might think that for now, and he might think that for now, it may very well surprise you that he stayed married to you because there was MORE there for him than money, kids, etc. That whole package carries weight, yes, but there is LOVE there. People walk away every single day from that whole package because love is lacking - this man did not walk away. He tells you he didn't love the women..........he stayed with you during this whole time..........what does that tell you????

Tells me a lot.

There IS an underlying love. He just lost touch with it and WANTS IT BACK.

He wants romance.
He wants to be back in touch with that feeling.
He seeks it out.

He sounds lost, broken. Do you see that in him? It sounds more than wanting the package to me. It sounds like he needs his family, you, and the marriage.

Read here, and get things going on the EN questionnaires. 15 hours together a week. Plan A, because it sounds like he has withdrawal to go through.

Hang on. Recovery is not easy.

Oh - it is okay to be angry, and hurt, and all the rest. Vent it here. You will need the group support.

and Call THE HARLEYS.

Schoolbus.

Honoria, the biggest problem I see here is that you live apart. You can see where that has led in your marriage. It seems your H tried to tell you. Since that is the biggest problem here, this is not going to work until you move in together again. You can't expect to live separately and maintain a marriage. It is an invitation to adultery. You can't have it both ways. As long as he lives alone he will be vulnerable to affairs. That situation has to be fixed if you want to save this.

What say you?

Is it working out as it is now?

Oh thank you, thank you, thank you! Schoolbus and Melody Lane.

Of course if there is any hope I will move to him. My mom sadly passed in 2003, but things were so cold between me and H then that I felt I could not ask to move us both together. Also, I missed and still miss my mom.

I don't know if anyone can understand this but I have wanted to hold onto my dignity because I have cried too many, many, nights on my own.

He came today to talk to me at our house. I was shaking before he came and I was shaking again afterwards. He says that OW1 has really helped him but he's had enough help and has said goodbye to her. Seemingly, she's been crying down the phone to him. I felt very detached and self protective. He said that he misses me and our home and of course our DD. Says he wants to make amends. I asked him however I was to trust him and he doesn't know but said he hopes to win back my trust.

OW1 has been phoning him in a bad state, crying and very needy. He says he feels nothing for her, but I did! It worries me that he uses women.

I said that I'd give it all my best for the sake of us all and I said that we will have to start over and get together more, but hey, I really feel so sad.

Has anyone here (I'm sure there must be!) been in counselling? I feel truly mixed up now. Angry with WH, angry with OW1 but weirdly sorry for her and kinda numb myself.

I've checked my insurance and I'm calling my doctor for help tomorrow.

Also, my D is coming back from college to be with us. I'm counting the days.

Thank you for your thoughts.

Honoria, that is a positive development! My suggestion would be to call Steve Harley of Marriage Builders and get phone coaching. HE IS WORTH EVERY PENNY!! He can assess your situation and give you a PLAN based on your own situation. He will not waste your time yapping about your childhood, but will give you an action plan and great guidance. This is what you need the most right now.

I would also suggest getting your hands on Surviving an Affair by Dr Willard Harley ASAP. Much of the stuff we are going to tell you will be counterintuitive and this book will help it make sense. You can get it at bookstores or on this website cheap.

In the meanime, I would click on the link to the right of this page titled "How to Survive Infidelity." Watch the Harley video there.

You should be in PLAN A and i will post a summary of what that means next.

The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A by Pepperband


The carrot of Plan A

Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.


The stick of Plan A

Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not apologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.

Dr. Harley newsletter:



Dear K. R.,

The plan I recommend for recovery after an affair is very specific. That's because I've found that even small deviations from that plan are usually disastrous. But when it's followed, it always works. The plan has two parts that must be implemented sequentially. The first part of the plan is for the unfaithful spouse to completely separate from the lover and eliminate the conditions that made the affair possible. The second part is for the couple to create a romantic relationship, using my Basic Concepts as a guide.

I'll describe these two parts to you in a little more detail.

The first step, complete separation from the lover and eliminating the conditions that made the affair possible, requires a complete understanding of the affair. All information regarding the affair must be revealed to the betrayed spouse, including the name of the lover, the conditions that made the affair possible (travel, internet, etc.), the details of what took place during the affair, all correspondence, and anything else that would shed light on the tragedy.

This information is important for two reasons: (1) it creates accountability and transparency, making it essentially impossible for the unfaithful spouse to continue the affair or begin a new one unnoticed, and (2) it creates trust for the betrayed spouse, providing evidence that the affair is over and a new one is unlikely to take its place. The nightmares you experience are likely to continue until you have the facts that
will lead to your assurance that your husband can be trusted.

An analysis of the betrayed spouse's childhood or emotional state of mind in an effort to discover why he or she would have an affair is distracting and unnecessary. It takes precious time away from finding the real solutions. I know why people have affairs: We are all wired for it. Given certain conditions, we would all do it. Given other conditions, however, none of us would do it. So the goal of the first step is to discover the conditions that made the affair possible and eliminate them.

After the first step is completed, the second step is to create a romantic relationship between you and your husband using my 10 Basic Concepts http://marriagebuilders.com/ca/to.cgi?l=qa080103bc
as your guide. While your relationship may be improving, it won't lead to a romantic relationship because you are not being transparent toward each other. Unspoken issues in a marital relationship lead to a superficiality that ruins romance.

Your nightmares are only the tip of the iceberg. They are but a small reflection of the suffering you experienced when you discovered your husband's affair, and the fear you have that the suffering will be repeated. You have no assurance that the affair is over because you don't even know who the other woman is. You are being asked to trust your husband, who has already proven to be untrustworthy. For all you know, he could be working with her, or you could be going to the same church, or she could be
your neighbor. And since he won't discuss the details of how the affair took place, you have no assurance that another affair will not take its place.

Infidelity is not something that can be swept under the rug. While those who have affairs want to forget about it and move on, those who are betrayed must take very specific steps before they can fully recover. In your case, those steps have not been taken, and as a result, your fear persists. I will send you a complimentary copy of my book, "Surviving an Affair," if you send me your address. It will describe these two steps to you and provide you with a roadmap toward full recovery. But the path will require full disclosure of all details.

Best wishes,

Willard F. Harley, Jr.

entire article

Please excuse the TJ but... schoolbus, there's someone you were posting to who would very much like to continue to hear from you. They have a new id, it's lildoggie, I hope you know who I'm talking about. I started an OT thread, "The Snake", that hopefully the WS won't bother to read.

Other experts in Plan A and B are more than welcome too, but this person can't give too many details in this new identity.

ETA: You gotta get past the first "fluff" posts.