What do you do? Do you work for a living?
Or do you spend your time on the farm?

He comes there everyday....do you meet him with a cup of coffee and a smile? Make him feel welcome? Appreciate what he's accomplished? Offer him a hot breakfast?
Men lap that stuff up!

Be warm and inviting. Meet his need for conversation. BUT! have boundries. If OW calls -- politely tell him he will have to take that call outside. That you will not allow her presence in your home/ your sanctuary.

Flirt with him. Thank him. Appreciate him.

Have you read the 10 emotional needs? What are his top 5?
Are you meeting them?

things I have identified about what I did wrong in our M...

I pulled most of the weight in our M for many many years. I did most of the work. Then in the last few years, my H started to change...he was more affectionate, more loving, would reach out to me more. By then it was too late. The kids needed me more and more. I worked full time. He would need my help on the farm but would expect me to drop everything and help him right now. I resented that and made more and more exuses to not help. When he would reach out to me I would laugh him off or turn a cold shoulder. Our sex life really fell to the way side for many reasons. I was way over weight and not open at all. Too tired. Felt used not wanted. There was no kissing or romance anymore, just sex.

So when H dropped the bomb I immediately searched for the why's. He wouldn't give me any reasons so I had to look within. Gradually I lost 55 lbs. Sex became something I WANTED and wasn't afraid or ashamed anymore. I showed him this many many times. I have learned to let alot of things roll off my back, not like before where I've always had to say what I think. I learned to listen more and talk alot less. I have been there to support him in whatever he was going through, even if though he didn't want me to be. Since he has left I have cooked for him, had coffee ready when he came. Listened to all of his ramblings even though I knew most were lies. I have went to his house, slept with him (unbelievable sex) made breakfast in the mornings, hung out with him. Or if I knew he just wanted the sex I would leave before morning and not contact him till he called me first. I have been nothing but nice, supportive, loving, generous, respectful to this man for over a year. And the whole time he has given me absolutely nothing to hope for or hold on to. He has disrespected me in every sense of the word. The only times I have gotten angry or lashed out was when I caught him with OW.

If my H today wasn't a TOTAL 200% different man than he was before the "bomb". I couldn't have done this for so long. There would be no reason to. If we didn't have 23 years together in a very good and close M there would be no hope. If he was so SURE that he wanted a Divorce then why hasn't he filed, even after threatening sooooo many times. That is what has kept me from filing. From giving up on him. But it is getting to the point that I am too tired. That I don't have anything left anymore.

So yes from what I understand of the plan A, I have done that for along time. And maybe even the plan B. Maybe it is a lost cause and it's time to accept that my H may never come back to me. It really is pure H*LL to love someone soooo very much and they feel nothing for you.

He doesn't feel nothing for you. He just acts like it to try and justify his affair or to not give your "false hope." If you worked a good plan A, he will feel the void left behind in plan B, and he won't expect that.

Also, does OW know about your sexual romps and what does she think about it. You may just want to get a picture of your husband in a compromising position with a date stamp on it and send it to OW.

I think you've done a Plan A. I think either you have to go into a very dark Plan B or live with the status quo(and I don't recommend that at all). But your heart and mind have to be in sinc for Plan B.

The last time I had sex with my H was on a Sunday. He asked me to come in and make him breakfast. I went. By the time I got there it was obvious he had changed his mind. He was pretty quiet and pissy towards me. (this happenend many times prev.)We end up talking a little. He told me he didn't know what he wanted. He didn't want to hurt anyone. He didn't want to give me false hopes. Didn't want to make anyone mad. Only wanted to be mad at himself for what he was doing.

I just told him all I asked for was him to be honest with me and not to be a third party anymore in this. He told me there wasn't a third party.

We ended up sleeping together. 2 days later he took a 1/2 a night off of work. Got really drunk and ended up spending the night with OW.

That was almost 2 months ago. It will not happen again. I asked him how he could [censored] his wife on Sun. and his wh*re on Tues. Of course he had no answer. I cant' do that to myself anymore. Nor has he even given me the opportunity to say no. Let her be his wh*re! I am sooo much better than that and will not be treated as such.

I made sure that OW knew in the past of our sex. She didn't know of course and I think they broke up for a time because of it. But she won't give up that easily. This last time I asked him if he was going to tell her. He told me to go ahead. I didn't, I figured he'd lie anyway so what's the point.

So what is plan "B"? I think I've probably done that too. I really don't see any hope anymore.

TOH

First off, when he had you over there that Sunday, he was still in contact with the OW. He lied when he said there wasn't a third party. From a distance and with some experience you can see it. If it was totally ended, he would be back home. He's still cake eating and until there is NC, there is no chance of R. None. And it has to be NC for life.

Things are NOT hopeless, but you have to stick with the plans. Plan A is all about improving yourself. Making your home inviting. Meeting the ENs of the WS. Not LBing and learning what LBs you do so you can eliminate them entirely. So yelling and screaming are LBs. Annoying behavior are LBs. Disrespectful judgements are LBs. Independent behavior can be an LB. Selfish demands are LBs. Those are a few. And you can read about all of this on this site in the articles. Check out this forum thoroughly. LBs (love busters) need to be eliminated. If he complained about a particular behavior of yours then it was an LB to him.

Plan A is also when you establish healthy boundaries. It's when you tell him that you want your M and are willing to change to make the M work, and then you do. Permanently. At the same time you expose the A where needed. And you don't apologize for fighting for your M. It's the time to get your financial ducks in a row. You'll need to visit a lawyer to know where you stand. Also children visitation can be worked out there, if any.

You stay as calm and pleasant as you can when talking with WS. He needs to get the good vibes and SEE the changes. This sometimes by itself will result in the WS returning, but not always. If after a specified amount of time nothing has changed than your next step is Plan B.

Plan B is about you. Plan B starts with the ending of the best Plan A you can muster. Then you write a letter to your WH. You explain to him that you cannot live with a third person in your M. You love him, but cannot go on as is. You want to recover, but you can't as long as he continues with OW. Then you explain what is necessary for him to come home. The A will have to be ended, there will have to be NC for life, etc. This can be a small list or a long one. What do you need for him to come home?These aren't demands, it's still his choice, but this is what YOU NEED to begin R. No LBing. Post your letter to get feedback.

Line up your intermediary. This is a person that has YOUR best interest in mind. It's not an easy job. Thsy act as a go between, a filter between you and WS. You don't communicate directly to your WS anymore. It's as if you are D. And WS needs to see what it will be like when you are gone. He doesn't get to see you and you don't see him. This is what it means to go dark. You stop meeting his ENs and you allow OW to meet ALL of them...and she will fail.

It's not a game to see who can ignore eachother the most or be the meanest. This plan is for you to step away from the drama of the A. And step away from the hurt. By doing that you protect what love you have left. His behavior has eaten away at it. No more.

This really is the last effort you can do. And it is scary. Most don't want to do it, but when they have been in it for awhile, they find peace. And begin to recover themselves. And hopefully the WS will begin to see what it will be like to be totally without you. They will see you moving on. And you will be, but you will still have some love left if they choose to come home and R. And if they don't, you are well on your way to personal R. But the key is that you have to stick with it. You break Plan B once for any reason, they'll know you don't mean business. And the choas you are living remains.

It's what you have attempted before, but stopped. You can't stop this time. He has to meet your requirements. He has to be broken. He has to be willing to whatever it takes to R. Plan B helps him get to that point.

There are many threads here with people in Plan B. You should read some of them and see what they are doing and what advice they have gotten. Ask them a question and ask if they would post back on your thread.

Like I said...it's scary...it's either the beginning of the end or the ending of the A. Your mind and heart have to be in sinc. YOU are the one who is acting, not reacting. You are finally standing up and saying...I love you, but no more. You are taking control of your life. And it's hard.

Here's Dr Harley's writing on Plan A and B.


________________________________________________________________

So, then, what is plan A and plan B?

Plan A is for the betrayed spouse to negotiate with the wayward spouse to totally separate from the lover without angry outbursts, disrespect, and demands. These three Love Busters not only ruin any effort to reach a negotiated settlement, but they also make the betrayed spouse much less attractive to the wayward spouse. Instead of encouraging total separation from the lover, the anger, disrespect and demands of the betrayed spouse make the lover appear to be the only one who truly cares about the wayward spouse. They literally throw the wayward spouse into the arms of the lover.

On the other hand, if the betrayed spouse approaches the wayward spouse with respect and thoughtfulness, the cruelty and self-indulgence of the affair is much easier for the wayward spouse to understand. And once the wayward spouse's mistake is acknowledged, it's much easier for him or her to take the first step toward recovery by agreeing to never see or talk to the lover again.

In these negotiations for total separation, the causes of the affair should be addressed. Since one of these causes is usually unfulfilled emotional needs, the betrayed spouse should express a willingness to meet those needs after the affair has ended. Another common cause is a wayward spouse's failure to take the betrayed spouse's feelings into account. The betrayed spouse's inconsiderate behavior sometimes leads the wayward spouse to believe that he or she has the right to return thoughtlessness with thoughtlessness by having an affair. Willingness of the betrayed spouse to follow the Policy of Joint Agreement goes a long way toward resolving the issue of thoughtlessness.

A third possible cause of an affair is a lifestyle where spouses spend much of their leisure time apart from each other, and form leisure-time friendships with those of the opposite sex. A plan to avoid being away from each other overnight and making each other favorite leisure-time companions goes a long way toward creating a passionate marriage that is essentially affair-proof.

In general, a betrayed spouse's effort to encourage the wayward spouse to end the affair should address all the root causes of the affair, and offer a solid plan for marital recovery. It should not be one-sided, however. The plan should make the wayward spouse and the betrayed spouse equally responsible for following the overall plan.

But plan A, an effort to end the affair with thoughtfulness and care, doesn't always work. In many cases a wayward spouse is so trapped by the addiction that he or she does not have the will-power to do the right thing. Once in a while the fog lifts and the cruelty and tragedy of the affair hits the wayward spouse right between the eyes. In a moment of grief and guilt, he or she promises to end it. But then the pain of withdrawal symptoms often brings back the fog with all its excuses and rationalization, and the affair is on again.

Sometimes a wayward spouse settles into a routine of having his or her cake and eating it too. In an effort to win the wayward spouse back, the betrayed spouse meets emotional needs that the lover cannot meet, while the lover meets emotional needs that the betrayed spouse has not learned to meet. While this competition is excruciatingly painful to the betrayed spouse, and the lover as well, the wayward spouse basks in the warmth of being loved and cared for by two people, with no real motivation to choose one over the other.

So, to avoid an indefinite period of suffering while a wayward spouse vacillates between spouse and lover, and to avoid rewarding the selfish behavior of having needs met by both spouse and lover, if plan A does not work within a reasonable period of time, I recommend plan B.

Plan B is for the betrayed spouse to avoid all contact with the wayward spouse until the affair has completely ended and the wayward spouse has agreed to my plan for recovery. In many cases, once an affair has ended, a betrayed spouse makes the mistake of taking the wayward spouse back before an agreement is made regarding marital recovery. This leads to a return to all the conditions that made the affair possible -- love is not restored, resentment is not overcome, and there is a very great risk for another affair. Without agreement and subsequent implementation of a plan for recovery, the betrayed spouse is better off continuing with plan B.

Since plan B (and plan A, for that matter), is extremely stressful for the betrayed spouse, I usually recommend that he or she ask a physician to prescribe anti-depressant medication to be taken throughout the crisis. This not only greatly reduces the suffering of the betrayed spouse, but it also helps keep a clear head at a time when patience and wise decisions are crucial. Anti-depressant medication does not numb the betrayed spouse to the crisis, it actually helps raise him or her above emotional reactions that would otherwise prevent clear-headed thinking. Why suffer and and make poor choices when anti-depressant medication can help ease your pain and improve your concentration in this time of unprecedented crisis?

While I have seen remarkable success by people using plan A and plan B, success is by no means guaranteed. The problem with Plan B is that the unfaithful spouse may not return, nor agree to the plan for recovery, even after the affair has ended. Separation in marriage is always risky because, "out of sight, out of mind." Unless plan A leaves the wayward s pouse with the impression that returning home is an attractive choice, separation can become permanent. So before implementing plan B, you want to be sure that the last thing your spouse remembers about you is the care and thoughtfulness you offered in plan A. That way, the separation can help create, "absence makes the heart grow fonder."

As it turns out, most affairs end within six months of their seeing the light of day (being revealed to their family and friends), and almost all affairs end without leading to marriage. Even those few that end in marriage have only a 25% rate of success. That's because affairs are based on dishonesty and thoughtlessness for the feelings of others. That same dishonesty and thoughtlessness eventually turns on the lovers themselves, and the affair is destroyed by those same flaws that made it possible in the first place. What drives affairs is passion, not commitment, and once the passion wanes, there is nothing to help the lovers restore their passion. Marriage, on the other hand, especially with children, has many factors that motivate couples to restore their passion for each other after passion has waned. So when passion is gone from an affair, a wayward spouse is usually motivated to return to the betrayed spouse by all of these other factors. For most, it's a logical choice.

But what about marital separation when an affair is not the issue. In your letter, you did not indicate why you had separated. It may have been for reasons other than infidelity.

In general, I recommend separation when at least one spouse cannot control destructive behavior. An ongoing affair, of course, is one of those situations. Hence, plan B. But other situations such as physical and verbal abuse, where one spouse's mental or physical safety is as risk, are also grounds for separation. As in the case of infidelity, if one spouse is abusive, I often recommend plan A first, where, through negotiation (without anger, disrespect or demands), an attempt is made to overcome the abuse without separating.

But in some cases, the safety risks are so great that plan B should be implemented immediately, with no time for plan A. In these cases, treatment for the abusive habit must take place during separation, and some evidence must exist that the risk has been greatly reduced, or completely eliminated, before the spouses should return to each other. Then, after being together again, the formerly abusive spouse should be held accountable by others for his or her behavior to assure the other spouse's safety.

In other cases, such as annoying behavior or failure to meet important emotional needs, where thoughtlessness does not reach the level of physical or mental abuse, plan A should be given quite a bit of time and effort before resorting to plan B. Remember, plan A is negotiating (without anger, disrespect or demands) to eliminate the annoying behavior or improve the meeting of emotional needs. A blanket agreement between spouses to follow the Policy of Joint Agreement goes a long way toward eliminating these thoughtless acts, and can also help couples learn to meet each other's needs with enthusiasm. But without that policy, couples often find that they cannot get anywhere with each other through negotiation, and sometimes separation can eventually lead to mutual recognition that they need the Policy of Joint Agreement to help them resolve conflicts.

But, as I mentioned earlier, the risks of separation are great. It should be used only as a last resort to help resolve a fatal flaw in marriage. Once separated, couples often never do reconcile, remaining separated for life, or they eventually divorce. A fact unknown to many is that fifteen to twenty percent of all married couples end their lives permanently separated. These, who are not included in divorce statistics, usually feel that they should not legally divorce for religious reasons. But for most practical purposes, they are as divorced as those legally divorced. Their separation did not create the opportunity for reconciliation, but rather, created an even higher barrier between spouses.

So whenever spouses separate, I usually encourage a plan that moves them toward eventual reconciliation. From your letter, it sounds as if you are moving in that direction, and you simply need to know when it would be the right time to move back together. And you may want to know more about full marital recovery after you have ended your separation.

The four rules to recovery that I recommend after an affair are marital rules that every couple should be following. So they should form the basis for any plan for recovery after a separation. Since the four rules cover every conceivable problem that married couples face, they would address the issue that led to your separation. If you were to follow these four rules as part of your plan for recovery, I guarantee you that you will not only eliminate the problems that led you to separate, but you will also resolve many other conflicts that have prevented you from having a successful marriage.

I encourage you and your husband to make a commitment to follow the Four Rules for a Successful Marriage: Care, Protection, Honesty and Time, and once the commitment is made, end your separation and begin a marriage that will last a lifetime.

I don't have a clue what is going on with my H...

We are now able to talk without him seeming angry at me. He comes around very little but when he does he almosts acts as though we are friends again. But I have changed some. I listen to him. Say a few things but mostly keep my thoughts and advice to myself. I laugh when he thinks he's funny. I keep my attention on him when he is telling a story. But I am detached. When he gets up to leave, I walk the other way. I no longer walk him to the door. I no longer tell him good bye. I no longer tell him to have a good day. I want to tell him to get the hell out!!!. It is sooo painful for me for him to act almost normal but then leave. I want him to stay. I do find myself having expectations though. Can't help it. The way he's been acting towards me, I find myself waiting after he leaves for him to call me. To call and ask me to come in. Of course he doesn't. That hurts. But I'm not letting it control me or bring me down.

I called him twice this week. Once to keep N14 Wed night. He had planned on taking her to get her permit. I had to work so asked why not. He did willingly. Thu. D16 needed to go to doctor. I couldn't go with so asked him to go with her. He did.

The other night he came with new insurance papers from work. He came in, took off his shoes, got a beer, and made himself comfortable at the kitchen table. (hasn't done this in a long long time). (Even my dog noticed the "normal" behavior as he usually growls at H and stays under my chair. This time "Peanut" went over to H and laid at "his" feet. H commented about what's wrong with you dog? )He had filled out most of the life policy. He had put our address down, not his. The beneficiary is me 100%. I had to fill out another page and asked him what address, he said to use ours. And again I am the beneficiary. I commented on H using 2 different addresses for stuff, that he's going to get us into trouble. Of course he shrugged it off. I really think he was planning on hanging out for awhile. Even thought maybe he wanted to talk some. But I had to get to town shortly so had to pretty much run him off. Haven't seen him since.

Other than that I am staying as still as possible. He doesn't call at all anymore. I don't call him unless it's business or kids. He is doing his own thing. I have no idea if he is seeing wh*re right now. Probably, but no clue. I go to work, come home and sleep. I am tanning and working on myself. I spend as much time with the girls as possible with jobs and stuff. I haven't even went out much lately as tired of trying to find someone to go with. I really miss H's family and being with them. But if I spend time with them then I have to see H and am avoiding that. Played hookey from 2nd job last night and took N14 shopping. I bought some new clothes and we had a pretty good evening. Was going to go into BIL and SIL's after getting home, but knew H may be around so decided not to.

From what I see and hear. H is having a hard time being "alone". He is always at B's or S's homes. Or running here or there. He is never home. And is having a hard time sleeping. From what I gather he still has not been or talked to a L. He is enjoying the "high" from the new bike. Parading it around like a biker stud. New hair cut. Leather coat, yada yada. Seeing him on the bike is very hard for me. I am so jealous. He looks so damb good on it. I want to be happy for him and feel such pride. And then it hits me that he isn't MY H anymore. That I have no claim on him anymore. That I cannot share in his glory. Something that WE always wanted is now only HIS to enjoy.

So while life really s*cks for me. It's working pretty good for my H. And even though he is being pretty nice. There is still no signs of him ever looking back. No signs of him having 1 ounce of love for me. No hope. No future with my H.

If you think you have done a good Plan A, then it is time for Plan B. But the farming will make it difficult.

Right now, your husband has the best of both worlds. He is living the single life, boinking the OW, and still enjoying the benefits of a wife and family.

He reminds me of my ex. My husband had dreamed of a 2003 Anniversary year Harley for years. So we were saving up money way before 2003. In fact, I was working overtime for more money on the Saturday he met the OW.

We finally bought the Harley. I rode on it ONCE, before he and the OW rode off into the sunset together.

The affair lasted almost 4 years and we divorced. Less than 2 weeks later, the affair ended.

So, no matter what you do, he will most likely be back. But Plan B would protect your love for him.

believer, why do you say this?

I am not so confident, really quite the opposite. And the more time I spend with him, the more I think that it IS REALLY over. There there will never again be TNT (HandI)

Yesterday was prom for our D16, her first one. She has went through alot of changes this year and looked absolutely beautiful. H was here part of the day moving a bull home. I didn't see him much and I was busy doing D's hair and getting her ready.

Prominade was at 4:30. H showed up. But was 1/2 crocked ("nice"). He found me afterwards and wanted pictures. So we took them. Could really read his sadness but I said nothing and pretty much stayed completely detached from him. (no eye contact, no emotions towards him, just civil). Afterwards I went to BIL and SIL's to say hi. Didn't think H was there but he was. It was okay. I avoided him for the most part. I ended up hanging out all evening as N14 was gone for the night to so really had nothing else to do and didn't want to come home alone.

I don't get it. He is in this mode now that everything is just "normal". He talks to me if he wants. He is nice and decent. He just acts like I am just a person there. There is obviously NO feelings for me what so ever. There is on anger towards me. But no love loss either. We get along just fine. I do catch him looking at me out of the corner of my eye. But only for a minute. I wonder what he he thinks. (and last night I did look damb good and I want to say to him "hmmm, which would you rather have on the back of that bike? that fat arsed ho or this? just kidding). He did get pretty drunk. When I left I kind of expected him to call or even come out here. Nope. Nothing...

I don't get it. How can he NOT have feelings for me? We have had a GOOD 24 years together. We really did love each other very much. We were each others best friends. How can he now not even care at all? What happened to us? What happened to him?

BIL kept going on all night about how him and SIL had been together for 12 years. And how much he totally still loved his wife. How he wanted to grow old with her. How you can't spend that many years together and not be in love with that person. (he really was doing this on purpose I think to dig at H). But H had no reaction. It's like he didn't even hear what was being said. Nor cared.

All in all it was a good evening. Good to spend time with IL's. I miss them. Had alot of laughs. I didn't let myself show H any of how I feel towards him. I didn't react to anything he said. I was there but detached from him. My own person. On my own. Head held high and doing damb good. When I left I said nothing to him. I came home and shed a few tears. But easier then before. I miss my H. I hate being alone. But I am okay. And in no way do I want to be with that man that now occupies that body that once was my H. He is a mess and I want no part of that.

Thanks for listening all.
TOH

TOH

WSs' behaviors can be confusing to the BS and rightfully so. Your WH is folllowing the script very well even though he doesn't know that a script exists. You also haven't seen this before because you've never been "here" before. But honestly what he is doing is very normal for a person wrapped up in self entitlement, selfish behaviors, justifications and withdrawal. He knows what he's doing is wrong, because every one KNOWS adultery is wrong. But he's changed his beliefs to be able to continue down this destructive path. He justifies it in many ways. He tells himself lies and rewrites your M history. He tells himself that everything was bad in the M for a LONG time, maybe forever. He has to. And he has to keep his distance from you, emotionally, otherwise your pleasantries and changes you have made would show him just illogical his reasons are. He doesn't want his fantasy bubble to burst.

But he likes to see you and get the "family" fix. He has an EN for that and every time he comes home, he gets that EN met. It helps hime to continue this charade. But he doesn't get too close. Make sense? He's still living a fantasy. It feels good to him, but he knows intrinsically that it is wrong. It's a battle and right now he's good at talking himself into staying with the highs of fantasyland. He's hoping that he can stay "there" forever, keep that high. Nope, reality will set in and he will come crashing down. Most do.

I know you think that your WH isn't going to come around. That he's never coming back, but we see this all the time on this site and MOST do come back. You should look at some of these threads, one in particular is someone named sexymamabear. Her H did the same thing, moved out, told her it was over, left her with 5 kids and a kitchen that was midway into renovation, so she couldn't even cook. Things looked grim, but he's back now. And they are in R. You can see her day to day battles with her alien WH. I don't think she posts anymore on MB for a variety of reasons, but her M is doing very well.


And there are many more. I think there is a thread by Ace containing numerous success stories. Check it out. This can happen for you too. And your best bet is working these plans. They help cut out the daily indecisions you have. There's a goal and you stick with it until you get there. Focusing.

Your WH is going to play this as long as he can. If he was a good man pre A and this seems to be uncharacteristic of him then he's having to try VERY HARD to stay wayward. That's why his behavior is so odd....expect it. He is no different than any other WH that we have heard about. Things can change and he can come home. But you can help yourself by doing what has been recommended. It can happen if you don't, but it may take more time and R may be harder.

I think you're in a plan a/b. You are in contact, but not meeting any ENs. He may get the wrong signal from this. KWIW?
Plan A tells him you still want him. Plan B tells him you still want him, but it is too hard for you to see him and be exposed to his A. Right now you're showing him neither. It looks like you are done to him.


((((TOH))))

I get what you are saying but how do I show him I still want him but at the same time put my boudaries in place and take care of me? I think that my H knows very much that I still want him. He knows I love him very much and that I want him to come home. If I file for D then he'll know that I am done. Maybe I am wrong, maybe I am showing him I am done, but I don't think so. I almost think that he doesn't really think about or care what I want or think. He is just glad that I am accepting what is and making things easier on him...

I am doing okay

I am accepting things the way they are

I am still around

I am taking care of all the responsibilitys

I am able to be around him, but yet leave him alone

I ask nothing of him

It's all good for him, and it works...

"I am doing okay

I am accepting things the way they are

I am still around

I am taking care of all the responsibilitys

I am able to be around him, but yet leave him alone

I ask nothing of him

It's all good for him, and it works..."

Yeah, it works for HIM. He has you, his family (when he wants it), the farm and the OW.

Do you work only on the farm, or can you support yourself without it?

That's why it continues.

He may have heard you say that you still want him, but your behavior says differently. His mind may tell him a different scenario. What he sees now is a woman who is trying to ignore him, not one who is pleasant and kind (the woman that any man would want to come home to). I would imagine he is thinking to himself....well if I go home, THIS is what I'll continue to get and that won't be any fun....see?

Generally, you'd want to him to see the changes in you, you'd want him to get a glimpse of what life could be like if he came home. You'd show him that there is a chance of R and life would be fun again, not a living h3ll. You'd show him this until you couldn't take it anymore....you are already there. But now by switching modes and STILL seeing him and talking to him, you show him how life may be like if he returns. THIS is what he'll think about, not the good things you did prior. These are the images that will stick right now. You are cold and distant. How will he know that you still can be warm and loving again?


That's why you go from A to B. There is no backsliding because it is more confusing to the WS.

Show him the best you->Until you can't anymore->Tell him you still want him, but you can't take it anymore(plan B letter)-> Then you go dark.

So he remembers how you were RIGHT BEFORE you went dark. They would be good thoughts. Good enough to weigh on his mind day in and day out. He wouldn't see you waver like you are now.

TOH I know you are in a bind with the farm. You don't see anyway to do this, but if there is a D, you'll have to, right?

Will you consider talking with the Harleys for counseling. They could help you set a plan that is made just for you. Maybe it could be a modified Plan B where you tell him you love him, but cannot bare to acknowledge him or communicate with him because it hurts too much. Then you go as dark as you can, no small talk, no brief encounters...just the important financial and kid stuff. "Just the facts".

My thoughts are your WH needs to know that he can come home and there will be a hope for a happy future. He needs to know you are not trying to punish him now, you are just trying to survive and protect yourself from his A.

you've misunderstood me or I told it not quite right...

I DO show my H that I still love him. I am still caring and kind around him not cold. I LISTEN to his every word and try not to say too much. I laugh when he thinks he's funny. I try and help him here if he'll accept. I don't ignore him at all, I just keep still and don't pursue. Let him make all the contact.

Me saying I am distant to him is...

I don't ask him anything that he thinks is none of my business. I don't purpously put myself where he is. I don't call him for anything other than finances and kids. I don't go to his house, nor ask him to come here. I don't spend any time with him that he doesn't initiate. And I don't react to everything he throws my way. I keep still and let him vent.

I think that what I am showing him (or trying to) is that I love him very much. That I want nothing more in this world than for him to come home. BUT, It is HIS decision and right now, his decision is NO. I am accepting that for now and letting him have the space he has so desperately asked for.

TOH

I understand.

So you really are IN Plan A. And you don't want to go to plan B for a number of reasons. OK.

His behavior won't change for the better until the pain he feels gives him a reason to change. As you said...this is working for him...that's why your predicament won't change for quite some time. You'll have to wait for the A to die a natural death or he decides to D. It will be one way or the other. So you are willing to wait, status quo, for as long as that takes?

If so, please do something to protect your love for him. Otherwise the resentment that comes along with this "plan" will make any future R extremely difficult at best if you get that chance.

Also please be warned that Dr Harley says that women who do a prolonged Plan A can suffer from mental anguish and even a mental breakdown. Monitor yourself and when you decide to just give up, don't, go into Plan B. And do it by the book.

I feel like we have cycled again. After the big blow out a couple of weeks ago. He has gradually become calmer, quieter, nicer, and around more. He has done this before but with hate and anger still in his eyes towards me. I don't see that anymore. He came out Sun and was short and kind of pissy with me and after a couple of snaps towards me I said "geez, why am I even talking to you, your a sarcastic a*s!" He grinned and was nice after that. He hung around for a couple of hours that day. Change D16 oil and helped me do a couple of things around here. Different...don't know how...but different.

Always before this would lead to some sort of rendevous between us. This time there is none of that. He doesn't ask and I don't invite an invite. Although I know it's what's best for me. It is confusing. He seems to be leaning my way but not wanting to be "with" me. We haven't talked about feelings for quite awhile.

I am hoping he is finally taking time to think. That he is really NOt seeing OW nor me and trying to figure out what he wants. But knowing her I am afraid to trust this completely. I know that she is not going to give up. She will continue with him until HE stops it. If they are still seeing each other they are doing a better job of hiding it.

The longer he goes without filing, what are our chances of ending in D? It just doesn't make any sense why he has threatened SOOO many times. I was so sure that this time he was going to file. And nothing.

Before when he would seem to be not seeing OW. When he would seem to lean back my way. I couldn't handle it. I would start to ask questions. I would use the time try to talk to him. To spend more time with him. Try to "convince" him.

This time I know better. I am being still as possible. I will not ask anything. I will not try to "talk" to him. I am going on with my life. Doing what I need to do for me and our girls. I pray that this time he will come to me. That he will one of these days want to talk to me. I am waiting for that day but am not "sitting" here waiting. In the meantime I am living. If he comes to me I will be there. If he doesn't well, I'll be okay too. For now I am not ready to go completely dark. I am still afraid of the dark. Tried to go there a couple of times before and it didn't go well. For me or for us. For today I will stay dim.

Sounds good, but don't get your hopes up. We call this the rollercoaster. Don't expect anything, and then you won't have the awful disappointment.

But it is likely the affair WILL end and he will be his old self again. In the meantime, take good care of YOU.

Or doesn't it even matter? I have heard of people seperating physically permanantly but being legally M for years.

I read and read and read on this board and 2 others. It seems that MOST of these couples if not all that R all have positives in their sitchs. Their WS tell them on occasion that they love them but don't know what they want. They cry to their LBS. They touch them. They hug them or kiss them. They spend time with them. They waffle back and forth. They return a time or two.

In my sitch I have none of that. My H told me April of 07 that he didn't love me anymore and didn't want to be with me and didn't want our life anymore. Has repeated that statement to me over and over again in the last year. Never once has he said he loves me. Never once has he told me he wants to come home. One time he told me he didn't know what he wanted. Once in the beginning he said who knows, maybe we'll get together again someday. (at the time I think that was just to ease my pain).

We had alot of sex in the beginning but it was JUST sex. He will not kiss me. He never touches me. He completely avoids ANY physical contact.

He NEVER asks how I am. He NEVER calls.

A normal person would clearly see that this R is over. That that man has NO feelings for this woman (me). There are no baby steps there is no hope, there are no positive signs.

Why am I still praying for R? What am I holding on too? I have not seen one sitch similar to mine that did R.

Is there any hope?