Sheesh, hopefully he won't bring the OW home. But of course you need boundaries and must let him know that you will not tolerate an OW in YOUR HOME.

Try to contact an attorney and see what your state law is. In most states, a husband or wife does have to contribute financially, but making them do that is another story. You may need a court order. But let's hope that it doesn't come to that.

Stay calm and very pleasant. Don't argue.

Good for you! Have you read about Orchid's Reverse Fog-babble? I think it would really help you.

Here's a link: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1026841&fpart=1

This is from Orchid...
She also says this:

Try not to react to his fogginess. I had my Plan A list handy and reviewed it several times through the day to keep me sane! Keep us posted...

Thanks so much everyone for your thoughts...

My H was mad to find my stuff back in the apartment. He called me and wanted to know wth was going on. I asked if he had time to talk in person, and I went to the apartment (I was still coming home from the dog show when he called).

He was mad...he said a lot of mean things. He was FURIOUS that I have been talking to people about the A, especially that I told one of his close friends that H had said he wasn't a Christian anymore. H did tell me that was a "secret", so it was my fault for telling that. I regret that part. I do NOT regret telling people about the A though.

He said he had full blown sex with OW last night. BLECHHHHH. He was hostile and mean, and I felt like he was just trying to hurt me any way he could. I was trying so hard not to do any LBs or be attacking or make things worse. I don't think I did a very good job. I made some jabs at the fact that OW was not nearly as good as I am, etc. I said he had pretty much lost his mind as well.

I tried to show love to H by trying to give him hugs, etc. And he would just say "don't you DARE touch me!!!".

We started talking about the logistics of him moving out, and that seemed to help things a little. He calmed down. He got his most important possessions (keyboard, guitars, computer, etc) and put them in his car...he said he didn't know where he was going to stay (hmmm, I wonder where he is going to go???). I told him I wanted to save our M and he was welcome here if he had to place to go. He said no way.

He wants a D, and said he would look into getting the papers ready. He said any amount of trust he had in me was broken, and any thoughts of ever coming back were gone for good.

I told him I deserved $ support from him, since he is leaving, and he said it was stupid to make him suffer through finances, like I was being petty and mean. -_- We finally tentatively agrees on him paying 50% of all of my bills, and if that wasn't enough, to let him know and we could try to work out another amount. He wanted to know if I was getting an attorney, because if I was, then he was going to as well. -_-

Things got civil enough that he was willing to hug me goodbye, a real hug, even though he said it didn't seem like it would help anything. So we hugged. He also said maybe some time we could go to dinner or something, he would not be annoyed if I asked as long as I didn't ask too often or kept bugging him. So I guess that is something?

Any thoughts, please??? Plan A? He specifically said it annoyed him and made him angry when I sent him texts that said I love you, etc.

This has been one hell of a day.

ThisBitterPill-

Thanks for the links about the reverse babble. I do not think I am capapble to doing that yet...for one, my husband is very analytical, and will hang on every word I say, asking for proof, etc. I know some of those things would make him even more mad.

Also, I am too emotional to even come up with something like that off the cuff.

I prayed the whole way home before talking to H, and my pastor from Florida also prayed with me. It was all I could do not to break down crying and begging. I tried my best to stay calm and rational. I think I did ok...not nearly "good" though.

Good job! Now, you need to get this affair exposed to any and all key people. Ask your mother to contact the OW's parents - TODAY - tell them about the affair and ask them to persuade their DD to stop screwing a married man. Expose the affair to any other key people in your lives. Cause AS MUCH trouble as possible in the affair.

When he talks about divorce, just let him know you are not interested. Don' COOPERATE in any such discussions.

Good job on moving home! You have now made the affair more difficult for him.

MelodyLane-

Thanks SO much for your encouragement. I have no idea how to get contact with OW's mother...and I don't know if my mom would do it anyway. Maybe my MIL would be willing?

I have been looking through people search trying to figure out OW's mom's name/number, trying to find out info, but it is going to cost alot of $ to figure this out. :'(

With reverse-fogbabble...at this point it's more the concept than the skill that's important. (ie, Don't try to make "sense out of nonsense" with his fog-babble)

That was a big mistake I made in the beginning, and I imagine a lot of that is heading your way now that you're home.

Keep calm and know you've got support here!

"He wants a D, and said he would look into getting the papers ready. He said any amount of trust he had in me was broken, and any thoughts of ever coming back were gone for good."

LOL, this is word for word what they ALL say. I have an old thread where we used to joke about it. They say they don't trust the BS anymore!!!! What a HOOT!!!!!!!!!!!! And they might have worked on the marriage, but now they aren't.

We always say they have a WS handbook that they all go by.

You did just fine. You are very new at this and are following the MB Plan already!!!!!! Usually it takes days and days to get BS's to move back home.

Hugs and a big pat on the back. I'm proud of you.

Thanks so much Believer. I cannot even express how much the support on this board means to me right now. I feel so alone, and am totally being consumed of thoughts of H and OW having sex...ugggh. I just want to curl into a ball and cry. I know I did the right thing, but when will things start feeling better instead of worse? :'(

I felt alone and unlovable when I came here, a complete mess. Others helped me, and now I'm doing fine. You will do fine too. It takes some time and working the plans and you are a quick study.

Chances are waaaayyyyyyyy in your favor that your husband will return to the marriage. So keep your hopes up.

In the meantime, get that house warm and cozy. If your husband tries to argue, stay calm and collected. It does no good to plead or beg, or even say nasty things about the OW. Just pretend that he is a heroin addict and temporarily out of his mind.

The best possible scenario would be for them to move in together. THAT would end the affair faster than anything.

Also you can work on any changes you need to make in YOU.

Hi everyone...I just woke up with a horrible nightmare about h and OW, and had some bad chest pains for a little while...did anyone else go through this too? I am alone in my apartment right now, and FEEL so alone...I have never lived alone before in my life. :'(

Yes, RedBerries, just about every Betrayed Spouse has had similar experiences. One thing you are NOT is "alone." At a minimum, you have God and you have people on this system who KNOW, from first hand experience, both what you are currently going through and what CAN happen when your "analytical" husband finally gets his analytical head out of his foggy [censored] and begins to see reality again. "Been there, done that" is the sort of thing I am talking about.

Unless you want to do a lot of research into each of the members who respond to you to "see for yourself" what sort of condition they and their marriages were in when they first arrived here at MB, just trust me for now that your situation is nowhere near as bad as some of them have been. In my own case, my wife was all set for a divorce (had a secret apartment, had accepted a proposal of marriage from her OM, had been in a constant 6 year long affair, etc., etc., etc.. My marriage was, for all practical and "analytical," purely humanistic reasoning sort of thing, OVER.

But let's look a little at something you said, and something you are discounting right now amidst the emotional pain and confusion you are feeling.





RB, your husband is NOT "analytical" with respect to his current foggy state. He IS intensely emotional and NOT "thinking with his big head." So I want to disabuse you of this notion and this "false logic" that he wants you to believe.

Don't think so yet? Let's look at this "alien" who is occupying your husband for a minute and you tell me if you think he's being "analytical" or "self-serving" emotional and completely "illogical."




Good for you on moving back to YOUR home! YOU are the one being logical and analytical here, not him.




EXCELLENT! Very analytical, right? WE told you he WOULD be very angry and you saw the "analytical" truth of those who have been through this sort of thing before.

So let's be a little more "analytical" here for a minute. Did your husband "think" that the REASON for his leaving and for a divorce would NOT become "common knowledge?"

Did your husband believe that the instructions about "church discipline" in the Bible didn't apply to him? Oh ya, I forgot what he said to you in his fury…


A secret from whom? God? Others who know what God has clearly said about ADULTERY?

Just whose "fault" is it that HE has chosen to disobey God and to sin against God in committing Adultery as his "answer" to his supposed "dissatisfaction" with some aspects of his marriage?

RB, what ALL Wayward Spouse FEAR is exposure of what they are REALLY doing.

Of course he doesn't want to be a "Christian" anymore. The "why" is because as a Christian there is NO WAY that he can "justify" Adultery, and he knows it.


[quote}He said he had full blown sex with OW last night. BLECHHHHH. He was hostile and mean, and I felt like he was just trying to hurt me any way he could.[/quote]

Of course he was trying to hurt you. He wants to make you out to be the "bad guy" for HIS CHOICE to commit adultery. He KNOWS you are committed to your marital vows and he KNOWS he is NOT, because if he was he could not engage in Adultery. He also knows that Biblically, HE has no right to a divorce. That right has been given exclusively to the Faithful Spouse, not the Unfaithful Spouse, should you choose to let him have "his way" and not go through the long and often hard process of recovering a marriage from this awful devastation.



Pretty accurate, RB. The OW thinks that breaking up a marriage is the right thing to do. She thinks that all there IS to marriage is SEX. Your husband HAS "lost his mind," and replaced it with an alien, emotionally driven, mind…most definitely NOT an "analytical one."



More emotional response. Not analytical in the least.




The Consequences of HIS choices are beginning to "come home to roost." Sleep at home with his WIFE, or sleep in the street, I don't care. REALITY, as it concerns his little "fantasy world" is beginning to impinge upon his "made up" world. The cracks are beginning in his "analysis" of why he can have an Adulterous relationship.




Good, let him. YOU drag your feet and don't agree to anything.



ROLLING ON THE FLOOR LAUGHING MY BUTT OFF!!!

HIS "trust" has been broken?!?!

HE commits the most UNTRUSTWORTHY act one spouse can do, and he is "blind" to the fact that TRUST in HIM no longer exists, he has PROVEN himself to be untrustworthy.



Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight! More "spot on" analytical thinking. Maybe the "analytically" thinks that a "threesome" would be more economical, all you have to do is get "on board" with the idea that marriage is NOT an EXCLUSIVE commitment to ONE man and ONE woman?

Oh ya, YOU are the one being "petty and mean" because you won't pay for his illicit "wants and desires. Fog babble, RB. Stick to your guns and let his illogical nonsense go in one ear and out the other. We've all heard this sort of "pity party nonsense" from Wayward Spouses.



Excuse me??? Didn't he JUST SAY previously that "He wants a D, and said he would look into getting the papers ready"? VERY "analytical" of him. Can't remember from one minute to the next what he said. All he knows is how to react to his EMOTIONS, his "wants and desires." He is AFRAID you WILL fight for your marriage, or for a financial penalty in a divorce, neither of which "fits" or "sits" well with his idea of "getting what he wants no matter who gets hurt, just so long as HE doesn't have to pay for it or face the very real consequences of HIS CHOICES. No one "made him do it," he logically and analytically CHOSE to commit Adultery.



More cracks developing in his "fantasy egg." Reality has a way of doing that.

Make it clear to him, however, that you will either be married to him or have nothing to do with him if he chooses a divorce and chooses to get involved with a woman who has NO respect for, or commitment to, the exclusiveness of Marriage. If she will cheat WITH him, she WILL cheat on him…she has neither the commitment level nor the love level of "for better or for worse."



Don't "over do" this sort of thing, as it appears too "clingy." You want to present a "strong woman" image to him where he will begin to understand that you CAN live without him, he is not the only "fish in town," just like he has said to you through his choice to commit Adultery.

However, keep sending this sort of stuff so that he will also know you are genuine. It will also keep contrasting you with the OW who does NOT believe in VOWS and commitment, and who does NOT understand what LOVE really is.


[quot]This has been one hell of a day. [/quote]

No doubt. There will be many more like it too, but you WILL survive. God and the member of this system are "on your side."




That's very good, RB. And God will help you. If you have any specific questions you'd like to talk about concerning this "getting right with God" thing, feel free to ask.


Not knowing what the "big falling out" was, I can't really comment on the "disillusioned" part of it, but it sure sounds like an excuse to "rationalize" his choice FOR Adultery and AGAINST God.

The "thing" is that our "relationship" is with GOD, not the people in a given church. People are all fallible, but God is not.

This will come "into play" in your recovery efforts, however, because your husband WILL have to surrender his will to God's will in humble obedience BEFORE you will be able to forgive and reconcile. Make NO mistake about it, this is first and foremost a "battle for his soul." God has clearly stated that NO unrepentant adulterer will be in heaven, so as hard as the current situation is, the "real" issue is an eternal one of where someone we love will spend eternity.

In relationship with God and with us, or truly alone forever, separated from God.

And that's the "analytical" truth.


God bless.

Great post FH. I've been reading "When Godly People do UnGodly
Things". I read that Satan will take oportunities to enter in on a person at opportune times, such as just after baptism, or if you have rift in your church. Those temptations are put out there in one last chance to win you over to the dark side.
The Good News, according to the book is that they last only for a season. And we all know what a dark season that was!

RB, you are getting great advice and support here. To help you find OW's mom..try ZabaSearch, or Bigfoot Directories.
Try using OW's sister's name in Bigfoot. This directory gives a
list of names who have lived in the same house with the same last name. When I put my name in, I get the list of H, my kids and H's brother who now rents the house. In Zabaearch, you will get an address for anywhere you ever had utilities in your name.
One of these will help you.

Good luck searching GF

Thanks you so so so much, ForeverHers. I appreciate so much your support and words of confidence. I woke up several times throughout the night, and when I did, my thoughts would drift back to H and OW. AS SOON AS THEY did, I began to pray for me and H's M, for H's safety, and to watch over him, and bring the "old H" back to me.


In my mind, I know that what is going on is exactly what the books say is going to happen, and the things H is saying/doing are the same things that other WS's have done. I keep going back and forth between "this happened to other people and it worked out in the end for them", to "how could he be doing this to me??? There is no hope!".

It is just really hard to find strength to love him, want him, and try to do the things the books/message board say to do (which I know are the right things) when it would be SO much easier to say "the hell with you!" and just try to make his life hell. I know I shouldn't do that...but the temptation is there.

It is just a sea of emotions right now...hope, fear, lonliness, anxiety, disgust, pride, rage, empathy, remorse, anger, frustration, impatience, love, betrayal...



Thanks so much...I came back because the people on here encouraged me to. It is so easier to do things with a real game plan, to have people say "THIS is what you need to do", instead of some of my real life support people, who say "just try to move on", "try to make him see what he is missing", etc. I need real examples! Thanks everyone.


Yes, I know. My pastor from Florida agrees 100% with you. He knows both of us really well, and knows that when the going gets tough, my H withdraws himself so as to not feel like anything is his fault. That is why he is "no longer" Christian.

I think it is going to really upset him when he realizes just how many people I exposed the A to. It will be interesting. The only person I have not exposed to, and I am not sure how to do it, it the OW's mother. I don't know her name, I don't know where she lives. I am tempted to just give up on that whole idea, because I do not have the $ right now to really figure out how to contact her.


He was also really mad that I took the good car (we have an old red Grand Am, whose power windows no longer work, and that no longer has AC...ha) and a 2002 Aveo which is really nice. I told him I wanted the new car, and he wasn't happy about that, he said I was being petty just to punish him.

I said that he was creating this mess, and I wasn't just going to let him take the things that are "ours". I was going to keep my life as good for me as possible.



He told me that he wants a D, and that he wants just me and him to make all of the arrangements ourselves. I told him I did not want a D, but would talk to a lawyer to see what my rights are in all of this. He just kept saying that we could figure out all of that together ourselves...and I said that I needed to protect myself. I have never done this before (separation/d) and deserved to have as much as my rights allow.


Do I tell him this face to face? I have pointed out to him numerous times that even thinking of having a relationship with her was idiotic, because I have PROVEN that I am willing to go through hell for our marriage, and she has proven that marriage means nothing to her, and she will cheat on him as well.

He just said "whatever bad stuff you say about her applies to me too!" and I just reply "that is true, you are a cheater and an adulter, but I swore to love you through the worst of times, so you are MY cheater and adulterer, and I am not giving up on you!"


Is there any pinned FAQ or whatnot about how one goes about showing plan a love without appearing clingy? Things to say, not to say? I read that it is bad to say "I love you" too much...

What about time frames? Should I ask him to dinner/date once a week? I doubt he would go that much...but should I ask? Or once every other week? It is hard to know what the right amount is in all of this. Should I try to send emails just letting him know what has been going on with me, not talking about R stuff?


I have been praying many times a day, listening to Christian radio in the car, talking to my pastor from Florida daily...I am going to start church shopping next Sunday to try to find a new place to go.

I do believe that my H, deep down, is still a Christian, and is just running right now. In the past, my H has felt called to be a Pastor, and has done a lot of mentoring with younger people. I am just praying for him, that God will call him back, and that H will listen. I do agree with you that this will be a pivotal aspect in our M and whether or not he will come out of the fog. OW is NOT a Christian, and says "JC" as a swear word in front of her daughter constantly, which I find revolting (not just because it is taking God's name in vain, but because I feel it is not something one should do in front of children).

Another thing that is so dumb about this whole thing...I can rattle off a list of like...25 reasons why she is not a good person, one of them being that she is a BAD mother and treats her daughter poorly. H had unending compassion for children, and it bothers him when they are not treated well. WHY would he want to be with this OW? She is nasty to her daughter. And I pointed that out to him...he just said that he would model "proper parenting behavior" to her, in hopes that she would see and change.

?!?! He is crazy. I also told him that if that is how she treats her OWN DAUGHTER, it wouldn't be long before that is how she was treating HIM. He just didn't say anything.

Maybe him living with her really is the best way to break up their little fantasy world. I hope it is. It doesn't make it easier though, to know that MY H who I am faithful to is sleeping with a monster. And enjoying it?!?!


Thank you so much ForeverHers. I appreciate so much your time and thoughts and encouragement.

Thanks so much Going Forward, I will try that now.

Sounds like you are still doing well. Sorry about the nightmares and anxiety.

I would concentrate on school, making the home a warm, inviting place, and making changes in YOU. Think back to some of the things hubby complained about and work on them.

How much longer do you have in school? Are you still doing okay there?

I am going to work this week on making the apartment as good as it can be, and have been trying to make me better. I started going to the gym, and have already lost some weight. I am also going to work on being more social, friendlier, and will try to do my hair/makeup/nice outfit everyday. I have been readin self help books as well.

I have three more semesters (this fall, winter, and then one more fall). My grades are good, school is pretty easy for me most of the time. This summer I am taking a few classes, and working almost full time at my school.

So hopefully this summer can be a time where I get my life in order.

Well...

I did my research, and I am pretty sure I now have name, address, phone number of OW's mom.

I also found address of OW, and OW home phone number.

Also, OW lives in her father's home rent free, while he lives in another house with gf. So, I found out OW's father's address and phone number. Maybe contacting him and telling him his daughter is living with a married man in his house would be something to think about?

I don't know FOR SURE that H left last night to go to OW's house, but I am pretty sure. Should I check first?

Good job on getting the contact information. I wish all of our newbies moved along as quickly as you.

You need to expose the affair. Talk to the father, mother, and anyone else in her family. Let them know that your husband is married and their daughter is having an affair with him.

A lot of times it won't make any difference - I've noticed the families of adulterors often don't care - after all, the adulteror learned their values from their family. But it is still good to expose.

You can also get out and do things and write chatty things to hubby. I wouldn't talk relationship issues right now.

I forget - where did he meet OW?

Try to figure out the emotional needs she is meeting, and see if you can start working on meeting those. Except for sex. Since he is having sex with the sleazy OW, you need to insist on tests before you go there. Who knows what cooties she is carrying?

Believer-

My H works with OW's sister. H and his coworker (a girl) would go out to lunch together, and co-workers sister (OW) would come too. That is how they met. Co-worker was VERY disgusted and upset when she found out about the A. But I guess after a couple days, she forgave everything, and they are all best buddies again.

H is on his way over for more things...I hope it goes well, I will try to be a pleasant as possible.