Bravo, Bob, and all of you others hanging in there. It is so much easier to just quit. I didn't have the heart to keep fighting for my marriage.

believer, I am a firm believer that sometimes the definition of success *IS* divorce. In your case, I think that is true.

I think MyRev made the point I was clumsily making far better than I did.


Bob I meant no disrespect to you at all. I do know you and your history very well as you do mine.

I don't consider divorce the answer for you, neither do I see continuing in your marriage as it is as the answer. Something has to change. I think you are wrong about what your children see. MyRev said it so well.

I consider you a success Bob and a hero and a great friend.

Thank GOD for that ! If they weren't following my example, they might just follow the path of entitlement that says " My personal happiness is the only consideration in any crisis".

And I think THAT is ignoble.

Krazy slight TJ


BP FWIW i do not think that you are disrespecting yourself in anyway.

Minus running the ministry my H sounds very much like Squid yet i feel where you are. Why would you leave a M where your spouse is currently doing everything possible to meet your EN?

As for if it happened again though i think i would be GONE. I have a hard time being back IN now when things are good, i do not think if it happened again i could stay.

Sorry Krazy another TJ


Its sounds as though BPs M is NOT CURRENTLY a bad M just as mine is NOT CURRENTLY a bad M. I think i am setting a good example for my children by teaching them forgiveness. My H is doing everything possible to help me recover, i am the one having the issues with my HEALING from the betrayal itself.

However if the M is CURRENTLY a bad M and with no signs of recovery (like with SL), then i do not believe you should continue to stay. This would not be setting a good example because her FWH was not remorseful.

I don't think anyone would suggest that Bob should leave his marriage right now. Another affair...well, that's another story. And it is about a lot more than the fragile male ego.

Bob has done well by his family.

Yep.

As far as your original post Krazy, i have not had that problem really. Every once in a while i will have a thought while we are being intimate but i can usually push it out of my head.

You on the other hand (i am sure because of the visual) are not having any luck with that obviously. I still think that a lot of both of our problems is just the anger we are dealing with from the betrayal.

I wish i could give you some great advice however i kind of think it has to come from within ourselves to just decide to either leave or get over it. In my sitch I do not think it is fair to my H (even though he was the one who had the A) to have to pay for his mistake for the rest of his life.

I am trying to listen to what everyone told me on my thread and kind of grieve for "what was" and hopefully i can look forward to what "will be" with a little brighter light.

However if the M is CURRENTLY a bad M and with no signs of recovery (like with SL), then i do not believe you should continue to stay. This would not be setting a good example because her FWH was not remorseful.


And the above is EXACTLY how my marriage was. Mine showed no remorse and kept doing it over and over again. Slept on the couch, REFUSED to do anything as a family, and REFUSED to be home if I was home. This was no example I was going to set for my children. And my son even told me "mommy, until daddy left, I thought daddy's did just sleep on the couch. I thought that was normal". They also have a lot of questions now because they see daddy treat ow well, sleep in bed with her, be nice to her, not yell at her, etc.. and they always ask me "why is daddy nice to her, but he was so mean to you, our mother?" It is heart breaking.

mlhb

There are certainly abusive, corrupt marriages out there for which divorce is certainly the best action for the BS and any children. It is clear that different people's cutoff line for that vary immensely however.

I'm glad the above message came through rather than you taking offense to my posts. Based on what I know, I couldn't/wouldn't last in your circumstances, but when I look in the mirror, it's not BP looking back at me ... we all have to walk our own path.

However, with that said, I do think these MB forums tend to lean too heavily toward reconciliation, even in situations where it is quite obvious there is little substance left in the relationship, rather than speaking plainly "in unison" to the newbie. Obviously, there are exceptions to ANY rule, but I'd like to see a little more balanced and realistic advice given out to those who are currently lost the worst.

With all due respect, there are damn few success stories here for the volume of newbies that come through here, and I believe in more cases, we should prod the newly BH (... and I do see fewer success stories of BH/WW as opposed to BW/WH) to protect themselves, their children and their finances, rather than going "all in" on a long shot recovery attempt.

Well we had to disagree eventually I suppose.

I believe ALL marriages CAN be saved if both spouses will follow the MB principles. And I don't consider that a longshot either even though Dr Harley says it is a narrow road - it IS a narrow road but that doesn't make it a long shot.

Hopefully, the plans here can end an affair - we know they do and then if the program is followed enthusiastically complete recovery is possible.

But if the WS merely ends the affair and won't lift a finger to repair the damage or otherwise make amends then of course the marriage will fail.

Bob has pretty clearly stated in many threads on the recovery board that Squid won't make any effort to meet any EN's that are unintuitive for her. Hardly my definition of a FWW doing her best.

I don't think Bob should get divorced at all but something needs to change in order for his marriage to improve. Squid is blissfully happy with the marriage as it is. Eventually I believe Bob's marriage will fail if that status quo remains.

Actually, we don't disagree at all ... I just see very few instances where the WW fully engages in the recovery.

Percentage Wise: It appears that once a WW actually develops feelings and is reluctant to leave the OM, as it is in MOST cases, then a succesfull recovery is a "long shot" at best, and that's where I think the program fails a good many newly BH's by giving them false hope.

I can't argue percentages but I will say that my wife fell into that category. She sure didn't want to leave OM. Hated me when she finally came home. Yet after withdrawal she did enthusiastically engage in recovery and in marriage building and here we are in a wonderful marriage, totally recovered.

The state of my M now is different to Bob's. A couple of points come to mind:

1. My FWW is not "in love" with me, and hasn't been for awhile, and I notice these days that I seem to be caring about that less and less, and that disturbs me.

2. My FWW exposed her A to me when it was essentially over. I had no chance to "fight" for the M like Bob did. The OM ended contact as soon as it became possible. The OM apparently didn't care much for her and, I don't know if she ever worked this out on her own, but he apparently only turned to her when the other OW was not "available". In other words, she risked our M and basically our lives (via unprotected sex) to be the "backup" OW for the OM. My FWW is also not prepared to do any of the "heavy lifting" required for full recovery - if anything, she's slipping back into the pre D-Day resentful behaviour that caused me to withdraw from her in the first place. All of this tells me a great deal about how much she really values the emotional side of our relationship.

3. My FWW apparently has a much different concept of right and wrong than I do, and this shows up a lot in our discussions. I'm quite certain that she will likely cheat again, because of her involvement, or lack thereof, in the recovery of our M.


So, why am I still here in our M?

1. There's a part of my FWW that I still love, though I'm not sure if that part is actually real or not. She can be a very good chameleon - it's how she fooled me for two years.

2. If we do get D'd now (as opposed to within six months of D-Day), she will likely end up with primary custody of the children, and just the thought of my children growing up with her and her skewed sense of morality as their primary influence is enough for me to stay in the M.

3. I haven't reached the point yet where living alone would be preferable to me than continuing to work on our M.

4. Hope springs eternal, as they say. For some reason I seem to continue hoping that one day she will "wake up", realise how horrible her actions were, and becomes once again the person I feel in love with so many years ago. I know it's wishful thinking, but I'll grasp at any straw at this point. I doubt that "wake-up" is going to happen any time soon, as missed several opportunities to perhaps trigger it, such as exposing the A to all who could help as soon as I was informed of it. She might not respect my opinion, but hearing the opinions of others might have helped.

Hey MIM

I know BS on and off these boards whose FWS is much LESS contributory than Squid is, yet they are wildly happy with their recovery.

Its all about ME and MY attitude. I am the risk to our M right now, not Squid or her A.

All blessings, mate. That not a great gig you have there.

3. My FWW apparently has a much different concept of right and wrong than I do, and this shows up a lot in our discussions. I'm quite certain that she will likely cheat again, because of her involvement, or lack thereof, in the recovery of our M.

I can sure relate to the above. Not in my marriage so much because my ex knew that the things he did were wrong. BUT, in my first long term relationship post marriage. We dated for over a year and I could just see more and more that he thought things were ok that I DID NOT. Like continuing contact and having dinner with, etc, a girl (and I mean girl) that he dated briefly before me. He saw nothing wrong with having primarily friends of the opposite sex. Saw nothing even wrong with going away for a weekend with a woman "friend" while we were still dating! I can't have a relationship with someone like that because I know all too well about putting yourself into situations where temptation can occur. It sounds silly but I had to go NO CONTACT with him and he was just a boyfriend! (albeit a serious one but still) because he was toxic to my life. Did not respect my boundaries and did not seem to think any compromises needed to take place. I could understand why there were issues in his marriage. MOST women do not bode well with the above mentioned actions and I think he will be hard pressed to find a woman that will. We were talking marriage at one point... So glad I dodged that bullet.

mlhb

Bullet??? Sounds like you dodged a nuclear weapon!
What a jerk! On the plus side, it is guys like him that make dating effortless for me!

I am glad you got away from that clown.

No kidding.

Men like you are a hard find there MEDC.. TRUST ME. It "ain't" pretty out in the dating world...

The guy sucked the life right out of me. I learned a lot from it though. A LOT.

mlhb