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Thanks for your input Mrs. W..  Now skidaddle! lol I feel for you Bob. I have a lot of respect for you trying to do what you are doing. Infidelity is SUCH A HARD GIG. Such a LOT of work. Good times and bad. And every situation is so unique. I hope you don't stop posting. Anyone who is from England is TOTALLY cool in my book! I am fascinated with English history as my ancestors are from there. I will get over there one day.... I want to see castles and see the tower where Henry the 8ths wives lost their heads! OH YEA! mlhb
God first, family second, and all else will fall into place.
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I live in the grounds of a ruined 12th Century castle & priory ! Not nearly so posh as it sounds but pretty cool nontheless !
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I live in the grounds of a ruined 12th Century castle & priory !
Not nearly so posh as it sounds but pretty cool nontheless ! Braggart! Pics or it ain't true =P (Why are all the best smileys gone?) Do you happen to have a comfy couch for odd traveler?
There is a time for departure even when there's no certain place to go.
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That is TOTALLY COOL!!!
My grandmother's father came over to America in the very early 1900's. They lived in the Manchester area. Others came over following suit. He married an American woman after moving here. My grandmother's cousin and her family came over on the Lusitania. It was sunk on the trip back! As we all know...
We still have cousins there. The last name is WATTS. I believe at one time they owned flower shops over there. Our second cousin has been over there to meet them.
Too too cool..
mlhb
God first, family second, and all else will fall into place.
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Krazy...
I am sorry! Your thread has gone in a hundred different directions. LOL
I hope you have gotten some help out of it...
mlhb
God first, family second, and all else will fall into place.
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You know BobPure, Mr. W didn't go through the steps as you've outlined them...Likely because I was on board with MB from almost the word "go"...Affair ended in June 05-began posting & reading SAA July 05-final email contact July 05 (got my [censored] handed to me here for that too-THANK GOD!)...By August I was fully back in the marriage (Mr. W and I listening to HN/HN on a roadtrip together helped us a ton-we paused to talk about things as they came to us)...the rest is history (Saturday was 3 years post d-day as a matter of fact! That seems light years away now-to us BOTH!)
I pray that LaLa and W2S are blessed by having an experience similar to ours...
Mrs. W
Last edited by MrsWondering; 04/28/08 06:08 PM. Reason: added a bit more
FWW ~ 47 ~ MeFBH ~ 50 ~ MrWonderingDD ~ 17 Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered
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Tabby, I agree with you totally. I may be on the "other" side of the fence, but I asked W2S just a few weeks ago if he has stayed only out of obligation of marriage and/or the children. He said "absolutely not--I stayed because I love you with all of my heart and I knew if I could get through to you, we could make it. You are the love of my life!"
Those are great reasons to stay, not "because it is better than the alternative" or "it's cheaper to keep her!"
I shudder at some of the newly betrayed spouses that may be reading some of this!
To those that are...PLEASE understand that IMO Dr. Harley would not encourage this kind of settling in marriage. His plans are designed for people to recover and be ROMANTICALLY IN LOVE WITH EACH OTHER!
I am not picking on anyone in particular here- just wanted to point that out to BSs who may be discouraged by some of the stories that cannot be called "successful"...at least not yet. I hope and pray for those of you who feel this way in your M that you may find happiness and fulfillment...and deep, romantic love. Noone deserves to be unhappy "until death do us part" when they have been betrayed this way. Awesome Post LaLa and well worth repeating.
Me: 56 (FBS) Wife: 55 (FWW)
D-Day August 2005
Married 11/1982 3 Sons 27,25,23
Empty Nesters.
Fully Recovered.
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Bob...you have posted that to me before on a thread in Recovery. I know you usually post as you read stuff, and so I thought once you got to some of my later posts on this thread that you would SEE that I do not (nor does W2S) claim to be "wonderfully recovered." I will quote some things I've said here today just to show you what I mean... We are still working through the pain I caused, even though I am "on board." I hear what you both have said, and that's why *I* said I hope and pray that you will be able to reach that point we are ALL striving for in recovery (to be successfully recovered). And keep in mind that W2S is still struggling with the same issues...particularly..
"I never thought that my life revolving around my family could be a bad thing....I certainly never thought I would suffer for it, like I am now. I gave my life to her, willingly, and it meant nothing."
He says time and time again that he only wanted to make me happy...that I was his whole life and being my husband and a father to his children was all he wanted in life. And that it wasn't enough for me. The "WHY" part of it will haunt him for some time...maybe forever. Among others... I feel for you and I understand that some people just cannot get over it--whether it is because of their personality, because of the length of the A, or many other (all very valid) reasons. I hope we do not turn out to be one of those couples! We do not believe it, or else we wouldn't both be working this hard to repair the damage. And I am sorry you still hurt so much! I wish their was something any of us...even Squid, could say or do to help you heal. You are a great perosn and I wish you all the happiness that you deserve!
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Aphelion... 1. The people most vociferous, most strenuous in criticizing BH who stay in what they see as a less than perfect M after an affair seem to be BH who’s top EN is either SF or admiration. Must be testosterone related. Does that mean because you haven't had SF in...how many years was it...that you don't have any, ahem...testosterone? 2. Some people appear to believe romantic love is more important than ethics and happiness is impossible without it. Some people use their distorted view of ethics to avoid confrontation. Dr. Harley's statement regarding this... Discover how to fall in love by meeting each other's important emotional needs. Then learn how to stay in love by avoiding habits that chip away at your love for each other. And, finally, master the art of negotiating to create a compatible lifestyle. With these essential steps in place, you and your spouse will enjoy a romantic, passionate, life-long love for each other. And since he wrote several books on it- he must think it's kinda important, too...And since we are all on the Marriage Builder's site, I would hope that is the kind of recovery we are all striving for... It is wonderful that you will not give up on your FWW, but it is sad to me that you would be advising people on how to have less of a union than what the good doctor insists will create happiness and fulfillment not only for the married couple, but for their children. I think the following quote by doctor Harley says it all when addressing the subject of the importance of being in love and the effect it has on children... But the economic advantage of a lifelong marriage is not nearly as important as the positive effect it has on children. The greatest contribution that parents can make to their children's happiness and success is to love each other for life. If parents love their children, and want the best for their children, they must do everything possible to preserve their romantic relationship. That means caring for each other must be their highest priority -- they must meet each other's intimate emotional needs. It's not a choice between caring for each other and caring for children. The reality is that if you want to truly care for your children, you must care for each other. So I guess his ethics must be all screwy, too, huh?
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BigK swears that if I got my ENs met I'd be happy and recovered. Well, I was *THIS* close to having my needs met for a year or so, and I still ached and bled out behind my bandages. Actually that is only a part. I believe that if squid were engaged in recovery it would make the world of difference. I believe that if you were not convinced she was stil in love with fugly it would make the world of difference. I also like MrsW can't relate to those steps of recovery Bob. I think we skipped many of them. I think the dynamic is totally different when BOTH spouses work together. Your list might well apply to one sided recoveries.
Me: 56 (FBS) Wife: 55 (FWW)
D-Day August 2005
Married 11/1982 3 Sons 27,25,23
Empty Nesters.
Fully Recovered.
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WOW laLa you stun me. Great post.
Me: 56 (FBS) Wife: 55 (FWW)
D-Day August 2005
Married 11/1982 3 Sons 27,25,23
Empty Nesters.
Fully Recovered.
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Aphelion... 1. The people most vociferous, most strenuous in criticizing BH who stay in what they see as a less than perfect M after an affair seem to be BH who’s top EN is either SF or admiration. Must be testosterone related. Does that mean because you haven't had SF in...how many years was it...that you don't have any, ahem...testosterone? 2. Some people appear to believe romantic love is more important than ethics and happiness is impossible without it. Some people use their distorted view of ethics to avoid confrontation. Dr. Harley's statement regarding this... Discover how to fall in love by meeting each other's important emotional needs. Then learn how to stay in love by avoiding habits that chip away at your love for each other. And, finally, master the art of negotiating to create a compatible lifestyle. With these essential steps in place, you and your spouse will enjoy a romantic, passionate, life-long love for each other. And since he wrote several books on it- he must think it's kinda important, too...And since we are all on the Marriage Builder's site, I would hope that is the kind of recovery we are all striving for... It is wonderful that you will not give up on your FWW, but it is sad to me that you would be advising people on how to have less of a union than what the good doctor insists will create happiness and fulfillment not only for the married couple, but for their children. I think the following quote by doctor Harley says it all when addressing the subject of the importance of being in love and the effect it has on children... But the economic advantage of a lifelong marriage is not nearly as important as the positive effect it has on children. The greatest contribution that parents can make to their children's happiness and success is to love each other for life. If parents love their children, and want the best for their children, they must do everything possible to preserve their romantic relationship. That means caring for each other must be their highest priority -- they must meet each other's intimate emotional needs. It's not a choice between caring for each other and caring for children. The reality is that if you want to truly care for your children, you must care for each other. So I guess his ethics must be all screwy, too, huh? you are quickly becoming one of my favorite posters!
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Thanks guys...and ditto to both of you! 
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Maybe not, but the last I heard MEDC was looking to MOVE-If I recall both of your locations correctly you are in neighboring states! Plus I've seen both of your pics, y'all would make a cute couple! Matchmaker, matchmaker...make me a match. Too funny Mrs. W. And thanks for the compliment. MLHB, sorry I got this all started. Feel free to not be too embarassed.
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ah, no big deal medc..
it lifted my day. :-)
i'm not embarrassed... flattered, not embarrassed. lol
very nice people here with very nice things to say..
what a nice family here huh?
mlhb
God first, family second, and all else will fall into place.
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well, since you were flattered, what state do you live in?
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upstate NY, in the beautiful Adirondack Park and Mountains region. surrounded by several lakes, i live within 5 minutes of one, 20 minutes of another, and 20 minutes of another...
i do not remember what state you live in?
mlhb
oh you know what, we are all adults here. why don't you just email me so poor krazy can get back to his thread. LOL
mhugginsboyea@yahoo.com
there, everyone happy now? lol
God first, family second, and all else will fall into place.
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How exciting. Things are hotting up!
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A long time ago I worked out what phases of recovery I went through. Many BS seemed to identify with them: I have seen my own recovery, and that of many other BS follow predictable steps. The steps or stages may be similar but the timelines are very different. Also, once the full set has been run through, stages can be selected in seemingly random fashion.
1.- Devastation.
Fear, shock, confusion, existential pain. Loss of hopes, dreams and every assumption about God and man.
D-day and just afterwards. Don't want to go there again, ever.
2.- Appeasement.
OK, I've been dealt a cr@p hand, but if she will at least stay home SOME of my life support systems may at least function a bit.
3.- Indignation.
F'k that ! I'm stronger now and I WILL NOT suck up any more pain than I have to. Still scared, but not settling for crumbs.
This is where MB gets SERIOUSLY assimilated and applied. Turns hatred on OM as being to blame for affair.
4.- Gratitude.
The affair is ended, WS sends NC letter, exposure scares OM into darkness. THANK YOU GOD ! LA LA LA LA LA ! Still suspects FWS motivations for coming home, i.e comfort not love.
5.-"Advising others how to be wonderfully recovered like I am"
We have like SF 3 times a day, and a restored marriage is a decent possibility again and I am so PATHETICALLY grateful to not be in the deepest cr@p imaginable I am hyper-happy. Yessiree, no recovery problems for me !This is it for ever and it only took us x months ! Secretly suspects FWS motivations for coming home, i.e comfort not love.
6.-"Ah, there's an elephant in the sitting room"
So day to day life has been OK for a while now. SF, even maybe some ILYs. Kids are happy. Life is ACTUALLY not happier than for years but it is so much better than during the dark times of the affair and withdrawal that it seems that way. But you start to notice the 'elephant' in the sitting room : the enormous baggage of the affair that the BS has been previously too 'fight or flight' or psychotically happy to address. Suspects FWS motivations for coming home, i.e comfort not love.
7.- "I am angry and I don't need you so why am I here ?"
BS has operated in a loveless and hurt world for so long is now almost completely self sufficient. Is no longer even slightly desperate. Does not NEED FWS as whole life support mechanism has HAD to regrow without her while she betrayed and sulked over the months. Feels indignation at both the insult of the affair AND the insult of FWS not contributing HARD to recovery. Feels like an ATM machine and bodyguard and hugely taken for granted. KNOWS FWS still loves OP.
8. - What about MY needs ?
BS has developed a sense of self worth independent of what others think. Has had to. Thinks he deserves MUCH more affection, admiration respect, gratitude. " I didn't put this amount of effort in just to be nagged at all the time, and never be praised. I deserve MORE than that!." The kids happiness at a stable family quells thoughts of rebellion. realises OP was just an amoral scumbag who made the most of an opportunity FWS offered , 100% of the blame for the A is FWS. This hits hard.
9. - Resignation
The kids are happy, I am not unhappy, FWS is happy, this is just my lot in life. Better get on with it.
10.- make or break drive to get a M the BS deserves.
An effort from BS to challenge the peaceful but unsatisfying status quo in an attempt to get BS needs met. Now Res the "la la la" bit is not for your benefit I promise ! It pre-dates you by years !  See I do not mean to patronise but I spent much of the 6th month to the 2 year mark advising everyone else how to be as recklessly happy as Squid and I. All ENs met, recovery panned out before us like a leafy vista. But....after a while I unbound my wound to see how it was healing and it just wasn't. Squid tore away from me to have her affair and it tore half my guts away with it, like when a bee stings. Squid did a lot in those days to make me happy and I WAS happy, just not sustainably healthy. BigK swears that if I got my ENs met I'd be happy and recovered. Well, I was *THIS* close to having my needs met for a year or so, and I still ached and bled out behind my bandages. That is what I am a left with - I understand Squid's frustration. She says her A broke me and she can't undo her affair. She fears it may never be enough for me, and I tend to agree with her. Smart people have told me how I am choosing sadness, being unfaithful to God, punishing Squid, punishing myself when in truth....I am just one of those BS who had an unhealthy reliance on fidelity and other related issues, and the A just broke me. People talk about "I won't live in a loveless marriage". Well "love" is what Squid and OM swore they had. Love is what caused my guts to be torn out. I'm not well enough to carry that burden for a while yet. For years I didn't post on MB for fear of disheartening people with my reality, having been "plan A poster boy". Maybe its time to do that again. All blessings lala. Just don't be devastated if you folks take a step back occasionally as well as giant strides forward. Krazy do you feel the way BP feels about your M? I very much feel like BP does although i too agree with you alot (sorry Krazy but it is usually on my angry days ). I just wonder sometimes if you are happy at all in your M and i feel bad for you. I at least am not really unhappy and my H does try to make amends. I really think for me it is MY feelings on infidelity. When my H and i were dating that is the one thing that both us gave as the one thing that would be a deal breaker for our M. When it happened though i did not want for our M to end. But i think that NOW that we are living life again and i am worrying less (still worrying just less) about contact and things like that, it is sinking in that he "broke" that promise that was made so many years ago and i am not sure that i can get over that fact.
Last edited by Still_Crazy; 04/29/08 07:06 AM.
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FWW ~ 47 ~ MeFBH ~ 50 ~ MrWonderingDD ~ 17 Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered
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