Hello-

Does anyone have any ideas or experience doing Plan A wit a spouse who currently lives with OW? At first, WH was open to the idea of occasionally going out to dinner, etc. But he recently informed me that they were going to "officially become a couple" (??) and that dinner, etc would not be in his best interests (ha, can't cheat on your new gf with your wife, that would be immoral!).

I jus don't know how I can even try to meet his ENs while he isn't with me. Some ideas I had: leaving cards/notes on his car while he is at work, getting his favorite drinks and leaving it at his car, sending emails, etc.

How much is too much? How much is too little? Any help would be appreciated.

I don't think I should go right to Plan B yet...

If I were doing this all over again, I would move into plan B right about now. There were some threads a few weeks ago about people spending too much time in Plan A.

I'm not a vet but my WSTBXH moved in with OW almost immediately upon discovery (2 weeks). I was still reeling over it so my plan A was virtually non-existant (I did expose but got nowhere as far as everything else). Even in hindsight, I don't know if there was any way I could meet his ENs once he left. He was (and still is) with OW day and night, 24/7. As a result, I got the vicious, angry side of WSTBXH and she got the nice side.

Disclaimer: My case took a different turn shortly afterward - I discovered a lot of long term issues that may not have even been A-related. At this point, I decided to let him go but I put myself into a modified Plan B anyway (no letter, just no unnecessary contact).

My modified Plan B has had some surprising effects. In addition to being central to my own personal healing, it has brought a huge change in WSTBX. He hasn't left OW, but he's become much less vicious towards me. It is really, really difficult for him to blame me for his problems now. Don't get me wrong, he still tries to but his rationale sounds more and more rediculous all the time. It has been 1 year since d-day and I can honestly say now that I could see MB working for me IF I actually chose marital recovery. This includes all of the early mistakes I made in Plan A. As it is, it's working for my personal recovery so it is working.

I did Plan A while WH lived with and continues to live with OW.

I am at work, but I will check back to see if you want to hear what I did.

You're no longer in Plan A IMHO.

This is where you need a 4x4. I don't say it to be harsh because I want you to succeed and hope your WH comes back after waking up.

You need to draft a Plan B letter.

Get a legal separation agreement drafted.

Sue the other woman for alienation of affection and talk to a lawyer about it.

If you state doesn't have AOA suits, then sue her for something else. Figure it out with a lawyer.

Draft your Plan B letter and give your H the illusion that you are moving on with your life.

How is that? Well, start making him wonder about you. Give the illusion that you're going on a date somewhere. Dress to the nines and be dressed as if you're going out at a time you'll know he'll see you. Even if you're just going to the library or with a friend, do it.

Let him think you're moving on and are going to start dating.

Clean out the bank account and protect yourself financially. This is what you need the separation agreement for.

Get an order in place where he can't bring OW around your children.

It is time for action, not Plan A behavior that will hopefully wake him up.

It's time for the stick to come down and force her to meet all his EN's and reality to sink in on what he faces.

He's stringing you along. Don't let him.

Wow, thanks for your post. I will think long and hard about it...other people have encouraged me to continue with plan A. I will check with a lawyer...my state does not have AoA, I already checked.

Does anyone else think I should stick with Plan A? OR go to Plan B? We have only been separated for about a week. TIA.

I haven't been able to read your story yet, so I can't totally answer.

Have you read the Carrot and the Stick of Plan A.

Do you feel that your Plan A has given WH an understanding of life would be like if he came home?

I don't think it's possible to meet his needs when he's out of the home.

Why do this to yourself and, better yet, why let him do it to you?

Plan B is to protect you and really put the pressure on the affair to face reality. The fantasy evaporates when bills need to be paid, child support needs to be given to the other spouse, you don't speak to him, toilets need scrubbing, etc.

You withdraw and force him to face life without you.

You then work on YOU. Get in shape. Meet new friends. Go out with your kids.

Carry on with life without him because you're either going to A) start healing and better yourself to be a better and stronger person if he returns or B) do the above and prepare for D.

He needs to know that you will not be his "friend" after a divorce. Plan B lays out the roadmap with conditions for his return.

You then have peace since you don't have to deal with him breaking your heart on a daily basis.

You will be alone. The first few weeks are terrible. But concentrate on your kids. Concentrate on making friends.

Hang out with family who can help you while you transition.

Slowly, with time, the wounds heal and you start feeling better.

Suddenly it doesn't bother you that the lump of cheating flesh is no longer laying next to you at night. Heck, it's nice to have the bed to yourself!

It's nice to not have someone making you feel like crap on a daily basis or whose lies you continue to uncover.

Suddenly you enjoy the time with your kids and you see that you will be ok alone and can enjoy time with them.

You go on a journey of healing to figure out how to improve YOU.

You work out. Look like a million bucks.

You make new friends (of the same sex) through a support group/book club, etc.

Life starts carrying on again. You notice the sun is shining and that nature is gorgeous.

You're glad to have some free time to reconnect with old friends.

You find yourself not missing him.

You treasure the positive memories you have from the time before he got his brains scrambled.

Fantasy affair land is forced to face reality.

Suddenly there's arguments about bills. She starts resenting the kids because there is a court order that doesn't allow her to see them and she then starts demanding things from him such as time with her or time with the kids or she gets upset that she can't see him on her weekends.

The drama starts taking its toll on them.

It might take a few weeks. It could take 5 years.

But the good news is that YOU start living.

So the question is which door looks better? The door where you keep giving love to someone who doesn't appreciate it, hurts your feelings, openly sleeps with another woman, disrespects you, cares little for your children, and doesn't ever return the affection?

Or do you pick the door which looks scary to step through, but once you get through the first few steps (weeks of adjustment) you start feeling better and living life again?

Which door do you want to go to?

Here's another nugget to chew on:

Just like love is a choice, healing is a choice.

Do you choose to heal or do you choose to stay hurt?

He's gone. He's out of the house and sleeping with another woman. What shows more self respect?

A woman who says, fine, have fun with your w*ore. I'm carrying on with my life. See you in court if you can't get your head out of your *ss in time.

Or the woman who says:

"Oh, please, tell me how wonderful it is to sleep with this other woman. That's ok. I just want you to be happy and I love you. Here's this card I got you to tell you how much I love you. I fixed your favorite cookies too! Can't you see how wonderful I am and how you should be with me instead of OW?"

You know what happens to that card?

He reads it, thinks "Yep, she's still there for me if things don't work out with OW. And she's watching my kids too! Hey, OW, I'm horny. Lets go have a romp in the sack. Oh, let me set this card aside on the nightstand while we do it. Isn't the little wife sweet? Oh, it bothers you to see that from my wife? Hmm. Let me throw it away then. Oh, yeah, baby, get those clothes off, OW!"

Card forgotten. Romp in the sack with other woman. She feels victorious to have him with her and not you. Man these after SF cookies are good! It just doesn't get better than this. SF with my OW and cookies from the BW who still loves me and is at my beck and call.

Maybe I'll ask her to make me my favorite dinner tomorrow. Maybe she and I can have SF when I stop over. I spit venom her way afterwards, but hey, I got laid. The good thing is I'll go home to OW afterwards and get laid again. Aint life grand?!

****Reality 2x4 over****

Sorry. That's the reality. You bring it on yourself. You choose to be abused or not abused by setting your boundaries.
So who gets respect in the above scenario?

There is no way I could disagree with what Pom is saying, but also add that I personally did a VERY GOOD Plan A for probably too long, but that was my choice.

I did meet certain EN's and I needed to give my husband a flavor for what life could be like, because when I went into Plan B, I knew I had DONE everything I could to save my M.

I am not expert enough to offer what to do, I just can help you if you decide to keep to Plan A for a while longer.

Thanks everyone for your honesty.

I want very badly (well, I don't "want" to, but YKWIM...) just go to Plan B, but I do not know if I have done Plan A enough. The book says to do Plan A until I cannot do it any longer, and it will help me to not feel guilty or have regrets if things do not work out. I don't know. I just don't want him to be able to say that I gave up on the marriage. I want to honor the vows I made to him. I love him so much, even though right now he is a monster. My husband is gone, and is replaced with something I cannot even recognize.

I guess I just don't want to make the wrong decision and then feel like I messed up our chances at reconciling. I know it is dumb...and I should just be hit over the head with a big stick...but it is so hard to know what the right thing to do is.

You're not dumb and what you feel is normal.

You're not making him do anything. You're not making him go and have SF with another woman.

You're not making him reject your calls for him to return.

By giving him a plan B letter, you're giving him the criteria and boundaries he needs to abide by to save his marriage and return home.

Drawing boundaries does not mean you're not trying. It is by drawing these boundaries that you increase your chances of saving your marriage.

It is by upsetting him and angering him that you INCREASE not decrease his chances to return.

Does a child enjoy being put into time out? Do they not complain and cry and get upset?

Yet the timeout, if fair, teaches a lesson on boundaries that shouldn't be crossed.

Plan B is a timeout. He is denied your love and affection as a W because HE, not you, decided to engage in abhorrent behavior, be with another woman, turn his back on his vows, and leave you.

You didn't hold a gun to his head.

You are in your own fog. I, as a BS myself, had it once too. I give you advice on things that I wish I had done and now look back on and regret I didn't do.

It seems counter intuitive, but making things difficult for him and not adhering to his wishes INCREASES your chances of success while doing as he wants not only decreases your chances of saving your marriage, it destroys you emotionally.

How will he respond? He will tell you that you ruined any chance to get back together or save your marriage.

The opposite of love is not hate. It is indifference.

His words are empty and attempts to blame shift. Don't believe it or accept them.

His venemous words to you will lose their effect over time and will stop hurting and will even seem crazy.

Then, one day, 2 or 3 years from now, you will find yourself consoling a newly BS online, telling them how you felt in their shoes and actions you either did or wish you had done.

We're all rooting for you.

I think I know what I need to do. I will probably need some support with my letter and all that soon.

You needn't even ask.. we're all rooting for you is right. We're all behind you and want you to succeed with your recovery.


I wish I'd known at the beginning what I know now 9 months into this. I'm still no expert or vet.. and I made TONS of screwups along the way.

Eventually the self blame stops.. most (not all) of the doubt goes away. You weren't perfect in the M, and neither was your WS.. it takes two people to make a marriage work. Unfortunately the reverse isn't the case this time.

MB will help.. your faith will help you even more.. lean on friends and family when you need to.. don't act on emotions.. think things through, and remember YOU are the one who has to look youreself in the mirror at the end of this.

Forget about whether or not he can say you did or didn't do something to save the M.. if YOU know that YOU have done all you can do.. then YOU can have that piece of mind.

One last thing.. kind of along with what's at the top... it doesn't matter what he thinks, he's flown the coop.. it DOES matter what your opinion of yourself is.. keep that in focus first and foremost.

If there's changes that need to be made, make them.. and make YOURSELF happy.. it's all you can do right now.

You'll hear SDGuy and I and a few others refer to this as a waiting game... almost all A's die within a couple of years.. for me, personally knowing my 2 year 'limit' is set out there and is coming up in just a little over a year.. is kidna helpful.. I'm almost looking forward to it.

Ok...WH and I had some pretty bad IMing going on today while he was at work. I asked him about the R (bad me) and he said some very hurtful things, and I did some LBs (I told him he was crazy for thinking OW could be even remotely has good to him as I have been), in my opinion.

He says that he can never forgive me for telling people about the A, and telling one of our close friends about him not being a Christian anymore (he told me in was a secret). I told him that he betrayed my trust too with the A, and he said the A was nothing compared to what I did to him (fog babble!!). He said it would have been better for us if I had cheated on him, rather than tell people things he told me in confidence. He will never ever forgive me.

Also, I told him I wanted to save the M, and he said every single thing I was doing was ruining any chance of him ever trusting me again...blah blah blah.

So yeah...really hurtful stuff. I know it is fog-babble, but he believes it all to be true right now, and it still hurts a lot to hear him say it. I said I would still honor him as a wife, and he said don't worry, you won't be my wife too much longer. :'(

He is also getting less and less willing to help pay the bills- he was pretty much the sole provider in the M. And first he was very willing to help me (we offered to pay 1/2 the bills, and now he says that is being very generous). He is fighting over petty things- if I want to have the washer AND the dryer, he wants me to pay him for one of them. -_-

So...I don't think I have it in me to Plan A anymore. He is so hurtful and mean, I don't really want anything to do with him at this point. I do love him, and want to save the M...but right now he is a monster in my H's body. I can't stand to be around him. Everything I want the old H...so badly...if he never comes around, I will survive, and sadly move on to someone to treats me the way I deserve to be treated.

I am going to make a post about my Plan B, I would appreciate help and support there. Thanks everyone for all of your thoughts and suggestions.

Actually, you only Plan A for a couple of months. The Harley's have shortened up the time. THAT is what I would do. And you can basically go on with your life and just be sweet and pleasant when you see him.

They are living together. It won't last long.