I’m here with a new post not looking for advice, but as a way to attempt to come clean for the umpteenth time.

I’m a liar – still.

I so wanted to believe I was out of the fog and we were in recovery. I so wanted to believe that I revealed all of the details and I wasn’t hiding anything. I had to chew on your posts for a few days because I didn’t want to believe what you all were telling me. It wasn’t until yesterday that I finally recognized I’m still a liar. Did you read that? Yesterday!!! What’s even worse, I didn’t even realize it when I did it. How did I become this person?

Here is the link to my post: My post

And here is Zonie’s:
His post

As you can see, there is a disconnect. I minimized that “detail” of having explicit photos taken of me by the OM. This weekend, for hours on end, my dh was pounding his pain into me by recalling every explicit detail that goes through his mind every hour about my A. He was trying to get me to see what I did to him. All I could do was figuratively put my arms up and try to block the images from penetrating, but after literally three hours of this, I finally broke down, cried, and then we started talking. We talked all morning. As the day went on yesterday, he was still trying to wrap his brain around the deceit. He explained how he gave me opportunities to reveal anymore things I thought he should know and I explained that he never asked me directly until now about the photos.

That’s when the light went on and the truth hit.

I recalled an incident with the OM when he sent an explicit photo of himself from his cell phone to mine as a way to coax me to come to his house. I told Mr Z about this incident probably two weeks after d-day. After I told him about the phone pic, Mr Z asked me this very important question, “Did he ever take photos of you from his phone?” What do you think my answer was? Without batting an eye, I said very emphatically, “No!” and said nothing more about it. What a perfect opportunity to elaborate, but I didn’t. I remember thinking that he didn’t ask me if he ever took photos from his camera, so I wasn’t telling a lie.

I took the detail, metaphorically stored it into a box and placed it somewhere in my memory shelf. I figured if he ever asked specifically about it I would open it. Then I walked away from that shelf in my mind and hoped he would never ask that question he did just two days ago.

I’m not looking for comfort here, but I have to admit, I’m actually scared of myself. How did I become this dishonest? Are there any more lies that I’ve got stored away in boxes that are not even in my conscious mind? How can a person who has gone through life priding herself in her honesty learn to lie even to herself? If those boxes come tumbling down, will it kill us?

-Mrs Z

I think this revelation will help you.

Consider submitting to a polygraph for your H's sake.

Have a strong committment to the truth and everything else in life will be easier. Have you read The Road Less Traveled?

Good luck...and keep trying to BE the person you want and need to be.

MEDC

Mrs.Zonie,

I am very impressed with your ability to see what you have become.

Many years ago, after I had done something I was particularly ashamed of,I asked God, "How, How, HOW did I become so easily entangled in this evil?" I was so shocked at how deceived I had been. I remember where I was standing when I felt Him answer. He said(in a completely gentle BUT convicting manner), "Do you really think that you CAN'T be seduced by evil. There is NO ONE good but God. All can be deceived. Even those YOU believe are saints."

I never have forgotten the moment. I knew that IF I did not protect myself and PURPOSELY avoid evil that I could probably become or do ANYTHING.

You know the truth now and the truth will set you free.

God Bless You Both,
WH2LE

100% Agree!

Hi, I'm glad you posted this. I was pretty concerned and disgusted by what you were posting a few days ago. I hope you try to hang on to this new clarity you've discovered. You should reread the posts (especially your own) to solidify in your mind just how ridiculous your stance was and how hard it was for people to get through to you. You're walking on a VERY dangerous road right now. This last lapse would have been too much for me. You should never stop thanking your husband for being willing to live with this. You squeaked by this time, but it's time for you to really put your all into this and be 100% honest. Don't cop out with the "stored away in boxes" metaphor. Sit down and think HARD about anything else you need to reveal NOW. One more screw up and you guys may be done. I hate to say that, but you seem to talk a good game and then mess up consistently. You seem very focused on what's going on in your head. You really screwed up and you need to focus on making this better right away or you're not going to have a husband to complain about. Next time you and your husband have a disagreement about your betrayal of him, try to not be defensive. Try to remember how you held on to this f*cked up notion of yours that the pictures and not being honest about them was somehow okay. Your judgement in this matter is really suspect and you shouldn't trust your initial instincts. Frankly, your reactions to your husband stink. Just a few days ago you were pleading your case on this disgusting thing you did. Numer one, if my wife had done that at all, it would have been a deal-breaker. Number two, if I'd found out after six weeks I would have left without a word, for good. Number three, if she'd had the sheer audacity to argue about my reaction...man, I just don't know. Your head was in such a messed up place just a few days ago. You really need to reflect on this or you're going to lose everything.

And one more thing - six weeks. Really!?! Six weeks is NOTHING. It seems like a long time to you because your "fun" is over and you just want to go on with life. Your husband is probably still a little numb from the shock. Not as numb as he'd like to be because you keep playing games with his head. But if you start acting the way a person who has done the horrendous things you've done should act, maybe he can at least get numb again. And then down the road he can even begin to mourn and heal properly. I've said it before to you - things can be better than you can inagine. But not in a matter of weeks or months. And certainly not if you keep going the way you have.

Mrs. Zonie,

I have read yours and Mr Zonie’s story and would like to first give encouragement to each of you for the work that has been done. I believe from what I have read you both love each other. And the pain you each are experiencing, most of us on this forum can all to well understand. I have been in your husband’s position and understand his pain. I also know that it takes a lot for you to come into a public forum and a bunch of strangers and admit your faults and mistakes and seek answers to your problems.

With you willingness and attitude I believe you have a very good chance of healing. Hang in there!!!!

Best wishes,

Merlin2

You are on the right track when your best bullcrap no longer works on YOURSELF! The moral compass of a wayward is very warped and it takes some work to straighten it out. You have taken a very important first step that is absolutely necessary for recovery: HONESTY.

Answering your H's questions in an honest way, rather than a weasely, legalistic way will help him learn to trust you much faster.

You are doing good, MrsZ, and I see this as a great improvement over your previous posts.

I'm not an expert on lie-detectors, but don't they work on the basis of cognitive dissonance causing changes in skin temperature and pulse rate? Do they work if the testee has genuinely convinced themselves they're telling the truth?

It seems to me that lies are often unconscious, and therefore undetectable, especially where the 'lie' has emerged from a a process of moral self-justification. To the very rational, it may seem ridiculous to imagine someone telling a lie and not being aware that it IS a lie. But I think it happens a lot.

This is not to condone the behaviour here, just to question whether a lie-detector test would be much use to Mr. or Mrs Z.

And wanted to add...I think Mrs. Z's first task is to work out how to detect when she IS lying. Seems like an odd thing to say, but it can take people a while to recognise the mental shift that goes on when they're weaseling. Being honest with yourself takes effort, insight and practice - especially when you've honed your skills of self-deception in an A.

Mrs Z,





Mark

Why did you "store it"? What did you gain?
This is an actual question, not at all rhetorical.
It's important YOU think about this in the sense of your "gain".
This self awareness is your road out of liar-land.


Step way back from this sentence & look at it as if some other woman had written it.

What do you notice about her character?
What do you notice about her problem-solving and communication styles?
Would you trust this woman as a close intimate friend of yours?

Do you think you can catch yourself in the act as you employ this truth loop hole in the future? You are likely to fall into this trap again if you are not aware of your patterns.



The word "hope" is such a lovely word.
When any of us "hopes" in ways that work to deepen our sins, it is a very poor use of our "hope". Do you agree?

What might you hope for now?

Pep

Mrs Z...you have taken a very important first step. I am very proud of you, because it is HARD to look and really SEE that version of your reflection in the mirror.

Now hang on to the revelation you have had, think about it, change who you have become...but remember what it looks like. The fog will be around for a while yet, as Mrs. W told me...it comes off in layers-not all at once!

Help your husband heal, and he will help you heal. Read the section of this site called "Restoring the Marital Relationship." It may take a little while longer before he is able to work on things with you, but at least you will know what the next steps are when he is able to take them. Be prepared, be there for him, take the pressure off of him to fix things by leading the recovery yourself.

I would suggest you councel with Steve Harley if you can. IMO, both of you should be on ADs for a few months to get over the worst of it.

Good luck and God Bless!

Thank you so much for your encouraging words. I apologize if the metaphors were overused, it seems that my brain comprehends things best that way.

There is a lot to read and a lot to do. We've been doing the HNHN course and also reading SAA, but I was wondering about the book The Road Less Traveled MEDC. I noticed on Amazon there are several new versions of it:

The Road Less Traveled, 25th Anniversary Edition : A New Psychology of Love, Traditional Values and Spiritual Growth

and

The Road Less Traveled and Beyond: Spiritual Growth in an Age of Anxiety

and

Further Along the Road Less Traveled: The Unending Journey Towards Spiritual Growth

Have you read any of those? They all have good reviews.

I noticed over the years that I have almost lost all faith in God. I used to have so much faith in my younger years, it would be wonderful to find a way to restore that. Ah, but that's a post for another time...

-MrsZ

What might help is to sit down alone and write down everything - every little detail he might want to know, even if you think he wouldn't think to ask about it. Show him the letter when you're done. If you do it right, there won't be any more surprises.

Don't just focus on revealing the past, though. Practice being more open with him by not censoring your thoughts (unless those thoughts are in the form of Love Busters, though.) Tell him if you think your favorite actor is cute or you were just checking out the cute guy walking down the street or that hey, I ran into some guy I dated before we were married - no big deal, but I thought you might want to know. When you get used to hiding big things, you tend to also hide littler things - so you just have to get into the habit of not hiding anything.

Mrs. Z:

You have taken a VERY important step, and I wish you and Mr. Z the best.

The lies, half-truths, and blame-shifting you deceived yourself with on your other thread were so blatantly apparent to many of the posters here.

You really need to keep re-reading Pep's post to work on the WHY and HOW you were able to so easily deceive yourself. The Wayware minsdset you were in just a couple of days ago can so easily be fallen back into...especially when something negative, or threatening happens to you or in your M.

When I read your other thread, I was eerily reminded of my STBXWW's posts last year...the careless tossing around of 'abuse' labels, the but wait...you guys only know half the story... stuff. We were happy and in Recovery for 4.5 mos last year, and after a big disappointment, all the lies, resentment, and blame-shifting were immediately back in full force. She walked out six weeks later, and we are still in the middle of nasty and expensive divorce/custody cases.

You really have made a strong first step in breaking that vicious self-preservation cycle, but now you must dig deeper and explore the WHY and HOW before your natural instincts put you back in that cycle at some future let-down.

My prayers are with you.

LoBoy

One of the reasons the M failed was because *YOU* failed to clearly communicate to him what you want out of the M. Unless you and he learn to communicate honestly and openly, the M is doomed.

Have you ever asked yourself "why" you lie? The harsh truth is that you lie because you don't want him to know who *YOU* really are. "Lies" are a sign of low self-esteem.

The first thing you have to do is answer his questions. It will help him, but just as important is that it will also help *YOU*.

You see, *YOU* are the one with the problem, not your H. You are the one who has to change the most, not him.

If you don't make these changes, your M will die. You may not have another A, but the M will be dead. He will be M to someone else (that artificial person you created with your lies) and that person who is *you* will never be known to anyone.

Just to let you know, a M can be a really wonderful thing. Having someone who really knows you intimately is fantastic. You can be loved for being you, with all your faults.

The older I get, the more I appreciate having someone around who knows everything about me. Try it--you'll like it.

JM

Pepper,
I'm going to attempt to answer your questions. Please know that these are honest answers and what I'm telling you here isn't going to be pretty. Here goes:


I stored it because I was afraid he would leave me if I told him about it. I gained a false sense of protection. Also, I was getting weary of seeing all of his pain. His pain was a reminder of what a horrible person I was/am. I shifted so quickly into deceit that the "detail" was gone in a flash. It protected me (at least I thought it would at the time) from seeing anymore pain and also from seeing myself as a bad person. If I felt better about myself as a person, I thought I could be a better wife and help us recover quickly. It's hard to be a good person when you think of yourself as a [censored]. So, now that I know this, how can I stop the habit of lying to protect myself? I'll have to think on that one. I think I have to realize that the only way to be a better person is to prune the tree, it's just going to be very ugly for awhile. Another metaphor, I know, but that's how I grasp things.


She is legalistic and isn't committed to honesty. She operates like she's been coached by a sleazy lawyer.

She wants quick fixes. Her communication is defensive, she's not open

No, I wouldn't. She's too concerned about herself.

Yes, I agree with that. I never thought of it that way.

That I can stop the need to protect the truth from myself and my husband. Also, I hope that I can be a stronger person who can shoulder the wrong I've done.

-MrsZ

LoBoy, your post is pretty scary. I hope I don't fall into the same cycle your STBXWW was in. I would like to read your story. It's so sad that you were that close to recovering, you had it in your grasp.

I wish the best to you and your children.

-MrsZ

I am a visual learner as well.

Zonie and I just got into a huge fight. He said he is leaving me. I will post tomorrow.