Aphaeresis

Thank you so much.

I want to understand:
1. what's the purpose of exposing my A to my BH?
2. Is it more important to regain my integrety and redemption than to maintain my marriage? Is the previous also selfish?
3. Will there be any chance for me to work out my marriage alone under the circumstances without revealing my A to my BH?
4. How relevant is it to expose our A to my OM's family?
(Practically I don't have any access to his wife because we don't speak the same language.)

My situation now:
I stop all the communication with OM. He sent me 5 messages and 2 emails in the past 3-4 days. I didn't answer. I don't know how long I can hold but I am trying not to respond to him.

We are seperate now, there's no chance for physical contact. Now I stop communication with him. Can that be regarded as an end of our A?

My fantasy has been receding greatly since I came to this forum. Now I acknowledge the fact that 1. He won't divorce his wife and marry me. Even if he can, I can't marry him who speaks a different language and lives in a different country. 2. He is a serial cheater and serial liar in fact. He told me lies on different levels in the past but I kind of avoid acknowledging this because of his charm and his persuasiveness.3.There is something wrong with my marriage before this and I need to understand where it goes wrong and how can I cope with it given this more complicated situation caused by myself.

You are right in saying that having A is no solution to the problem of my marriage. But I reckon this is an excuse many WWF or OM used to avoid facing their problems in M.

Somehow, after A, I can cope with the my husband's semi-unemployment state better. I am telling myself both of us is not perfect, why shouldn't I give him some time to sort out his problem? And because perhaps I love him less, I don't feel so annoyed when I face the problems he can't solve well in life.

Should we use our A as a constructive element to recover our M? Or should we choose to expose it simply to gain the redemption of our own conscience and soul?

Your BH deserves to make a decision about his marriage based on truth. Get a new cell #, change your e-mail address. Block any possible way that OM has of contacting you and come clean with your BH or divorce him. Your self centered affair cannot be used as a "constructive element to recover your marriage" unless you both are armed with the truth.

Aphaeresis - you asked me some time ago to not post on your threads or to you because you don't like or believe in religion. I have honored that request to date, and I'll thank you to keep your opinions to yourself UNLESS you want to start a thread to discuss that very issue with me.

******EDIT*******

You CAN choose to change your behavior. You can choose later on to change your changed behavior. WHAT becomes the "absolute authority" that would keep you from changing your mind again at some future date when you "felt like it?"

You still have no concept of the OFFENSIVENESS or DEPTH of the destruction caused by a willing choice to commit ADULTERY.

I have watched your thread as you and your husband "dance" with each other. Are you in "recovery?" Barely. Are the prospects for achieving "Recovered" good? I sincerely doubt it. You are both choosing to "captain" your own ships and it doesn't matter if one of you REALLY REALLY wants to rebuild a good marriage if the other one is NOT going to relinquish control of "his" or "her" ship and "transfer the flag" of command and control to the ONLY captain who KNOWS what needs to be done and has the authority to TELL YOU BOTH what to do even when you don't "feel like doing it."

The rest of your opinions are just that, your opinions and the opinions of an unfaithful wife who thinks "she" is in control. I don't doubt that you SINCERELY believe that. And just as sincerely I believe that you are sincerely WRONG.

You, with your rejection of Christ, DON'T see your many adulteries as SIN, you see them as "incovenient choices" NOW that you have decided you want to CHOOSE to be married to the man who chose to be married to you. But he, too, operates from the same perspective of "self-preeminence" that you do. No captain whose commands are binding, no rules that apply to everyone regardless of what they want or what they are feeling. You both want to be "god" of your own lives. And God, will let you. That is also the TRUTH.

It does NOT take a person "religion" to tell this woman that what she is doing is WRONG. I am NOT talking about Salvation of her soul here, I am telling what God has established as the "Rules" for ALL marriages, regardless of whether or not the individuals IN the marriage believe God even exists or not.




Yep. It's a mess alright. It's even a sin.

But the "mess" isn't hers to decide to clean up yet. It is her husband's right to decide to clean up the mess or to just walk away from the mess and start in a new, clean place.

It is NOT the Unfaithful Spouse's right to choose "cleanup" of the MARRIAGE. It is their choice to "clean up" their own life, but the life of the marriage now belongs to the Faithful Spouse.

SHE does not get to decide for him. SHE needs to confess and live by HIS choice to end the marriage or attemtpt to do the very hard work needed to recover a shattered marriage.




Got it. In YOUR opinion, believers are NOT welcome on MB, UNLESS they keep quite and "accept" that unbelief is God is "true."

Riiiiiiight. And I'll bet you think life originates from non-life too.

Such "Right" thinking....it must make you feel all warm and fuzzy to declare God "dead" and "irrelevant."

One more thing, Aphaeresis. That you have NOW chosen No Contact and "want to" remain married to your husband IS a "good thing," whether you believe in God or not and I, also, give you "cudoes" for that choice.

However, that is your "choice du jour," and just as you changed your mind in the past you can do so again.

So let me ask YOU the very same question that I asked Josephine.


Do you NOW have an answer you'd like to share with us?

This is from a Harley radio show and answers the question of whether the betrayed spouse bears any responsibility for the choices made by the unfaithful spouse:

Bill: Why do people do things that hurt other people? And the answer is that part of it is we don’t care about other people. We only care about ourselves, and when we are only caring about ourselves and we’re not caring about other people, people should run for cover. And the question is: What is it we can do to make ourselves safe in relationships with other people and that is to create environmental factors – environmental rules, regulations – to live by that consciously and purposely protect other people from our own selfish instincts.

Joyce: What is the percentage – How successful can couples be after infidelity and having a good marriage? … An affair happens in your marriage. What is the likelihood of success that your marriage will become happy again and maybe even better than before the infidelity?

Bill: It’s very low, very low. Most couples that have affairs end their marriage in
divorce. Most of those that remain remain unhappy…

Joyce: I seem to get the impression that her husband is blaming her for not being happy with the infidelity…

Bill: Not being happy with her so he ends up -- he says he’s not happy with her so has an affair

Joyce: Oh, so it’s her fault he’s having an affair…

Bill: And if she’d be a little more cooperative I wouldn’t be having so many affairs… And it’s the same argument people use that are physically abusive. Basically, if my wife would stop irritating me, I wouldn’t be beating her as much. The question is: What can she do to get him to quit having affairs? The answer is: Nothing. There’s nothing she can do. It’s really all in his court. If he has one affair, my argument has always been that that is sufficient to divorce. Now, the question is: Does he want to straighten things out with her? If he does, then the question is: What does he have to do? Well, he has to never see or talk to the lover again. He has to create extraordinary precautions, make sure he doesn’t have that affair rekindled or any other affair and he has to make sure their marriage is restored. When somebody has an affair, it isn’t so much what should the person who is betrayed, what should they do, to get him to stop having an affair.. Yes, indeed, you need to have emotional needs met, but it’s still no excuse for having an affair.

Joyce: And it sounds to me like he is just using his wife as an excuse to justify what he really wants to be doing – and he doesn’t want to be faithful.

Bill: Yeah. And anybody that says, well, the reason that I hit you is because of what you did or what you said, it’s the same kind of a thing. The first step toward overcoming domestic violence is to recognize that there are no excuses for domestic violence…What’s the first step in anger management counseling? And that is to convince the violent spouse that they have no right ever hurting their spouse regardless of what their spouse may have said or done.

Joyce: But how do you convince them of that if they can always justify their outburst of anger?

Bill: This is where counseling is important. Counseling from my perspective is an opportunity to change somebody’s mind, to change somebody’s thoughts, to change somebody’s attitudes, to change them. And a lot of times you got to begin with their attitudes. But that’s not where you end. You can’t end with attitudes, because you have to end with behavior. I’ve known a lot of people that fully believe that they should not be beating their wife, and yet they can’t stop because they haven’t learned to stop doing that…So the first step is to recognize that there is no excuse for an affair. If her husband were to tell me, every time I have an affair, I feel guilty, I feel like I’ve sinned against God, I’ve sinned against my wife, I’ve sinned against my children, I’m a horrible person to be doing this. Then I would say, “Now, what we have to do is create an environment where you’re not going to have another affair. And it’s going to be very restrictive, at least at first. You’re basically going to be watched 24 hours a day. You’re not going to be able to do and say what you want to say. It’s just like with helping a person overcome addiction to alcohol. You can’t be working in a bar when you are trying to recover from being an alcoholic. This woman’s husband says, “It’s your fault that I’m having an affair.” And I’d say, “What can she do to get him to stop?” And the answer is “Absolutely nothing. There’s nothing she can do. She has to walk away. She has to turn her back and walk away from him. Otherwise, she’s going to continue to be hurt by him the rest of their lives. The same thing is true of men that beat their wives. The same thing is true with men or woman who are verbally abusive. The question is: “How do I get my spouse to stop being abusive? How do I get my spouse to stop hurting me?” The answer is, “There’s nothing you can do. It’s all on the part of the person who is doing the damage.”

Cherishing

Foreverhers,

Thank you for you posts.

I think you don't get it. I am not a religious person now. I have grown up in a different culture where people don't believe in God. The angle you choose to imbed the notion of morality and sin and redemption in me is not persuasive for me. As a non-religious person, I still believe in morality,guilt and integrity. But you got to find an angle to convince me and help me rationalize these are the very right things I need to do.

Please, think about how corrupted this world has been today. Think about how many religious people still choose to conduct A and will never choose to redeem themselves like me now. I need help. I need someone who shares experience with me, who can tell me what works out. If any WW successfully recovered from A and rebuild their M, PLEASE tell me how did you do that?

Thanks

I am a FWW in a recovered marriage, Josephine...The solution to adultery is HONESTY...That is the ONLY way that you have any chance of marital recovery...There are no short-cuts or easy ways...TRUTH, with your husband, TRUTH with yourself...TRUTH, that is your answer...

Let me know when you get serious and want to be honest...That doesn't take thinking about it or time...That takes nothing more than a genuine desire to change...The time is now...

Mrs. W

The purpose is to give him information about HIS LIFE that is being wrongfully withheld from him so he can CHOOSE if he wants to stay to married to a cheater or not. That is his right - and no one elses - to make that choice.

To do otherwise is cruel and manipulative; it is keeping him in a marriage based on a LIE.


Do you mean is it better to continue tricking him into staying in a marriage based on a lie? Is he your PET? That is not selfish, that is cruel.


No. A marriage based on a lie does not last. Your best chance at saving the marriage is to come clean.


The OM's wife will need to be notified. Not by you, though.


The best way to end the affair is to write a no contact letter to him with the help of your husband. We have samples.


Not to mention the fact that he is cheating WITH YOU. If he will do it with you, he will do it to you. Cheaters.............cheat. Cheaters are not completely stupid, he would not leave his wife for a woman who CHEATS.


Yes, there is something very, very wrong, Josephine. Your affair is the greatest damage you could have possibly caused to your marriage. It will take enormous effort to recover from this. But the first step starts with HONESTY. HONESTY is the solution to adultery.

Tell the man the truth TODAY, Josephine.

wow, thanks for posting that, Cherishing, that is very powerful reading it in text. I so wish we had text versions of all of his shows. Where did you get that?

Josephine,

I am a BH, and not particularly religious...at least not in a traditional sense, so I won't jump on the "but it's a sin" bandwagon.

However, I too have a very strong sense of what's right...like in the golden rule.

If your H were having an A, wouldn't you believe it was your right to know what's going on that's relevant to your life?

From what I am reading, you're delaying self-exposure because you know it's going to be unpleasant (to say the least). That's protecting you, not him. This is a classic WS tactic, and I strongly suggest you read Brooke28's thread here: Is confessing always the right thing to do?

Her situation was so much worse than yours, yet confessing was still the right thing to do...pls read.

Did you divorce your wife? Do you forgive her? Are you happy now? How long does it take you to recover?

I have NOT divorced my wife...she's the one who has said "I don't want to be married anymore"

I CAN forgive her...and have forgiven her for having had the affair...what I cannot understand or forgive is her continued contact in some form, and her continued avoidance of the truth!

I AM happy, only because I am working on ME. Our M cannot recover, however, until she faces the truth, and presents that truth...first to herself, then to me.

Make sense?

"The Truth Shall Set You Free"

Have you read some of Brooke's story yet?

Josephine,

Your focus is all wrong here...You are still worried about consequences to YOU, for YOUR ACTIONS...YOUR CHOICES...

No one but your BH can tell you if he will forgive you, and he won't even know the answer to that himself for a while...That shouldn't matter...What matters is that he gets to know the truth about his life...That is the ONLY way...Seriously, you are acting like he is your pet and it is sickening to watch!

Will you do the right thing and tell him?

Mrs. W

P.S. FWIW, Mr. W, my husband did forgive me...I tell you that only in hopes that you will please tell your husband the TRUTH!!!

Josephine, I'm sorry, but you are most definitely the one who "doesn't get it" here. I understand you are not religious and I understand what you have done and what you are doing now.




This is where you are wrong again, Josephine. *I* don't have to "convince" you of anything. You are going to do whatever you want to do anyway, no matter what anyone says.

You have NO concept of what you have done and you have no concept of what you have done TO your husband or what "he11" he is going to go through when he learns the truth...and he will learn of it...it's just a matter of "when" and from "who."

But let's talk just a quick minute about "morality," since you seem to be interested in it. Who determines what IS moral and what is immoral? What determines that what is moral remains moral always? Since you have already shown that you determine what is moral for yourself by what you want, what difference does it make to what anyone else might think is moral?

Integrity? That's already gone. Only you can rebuild it, but not the way you are going.

Guilt? Why should you feel guilty? That you let yourself be used or that you betrayed the solemn trust your husband had in you? I have heard NO "repentance" from you, no regret, no shame, no sorrow, no concern for your husband, just concern about yourself and how YOUR life might be getting "messed up." All any of us has heard is how YOU want what you want and how you fear what could be your justfied consequences for your choices. Self-absorbed would best describe how you relate to others, and especially toward your husband.




Oh pulllleaaaase.... If God doesn't exist for you, what difference does it make if someone is "religious" or not. By your viewpoint they are no different than you and "religion" is a bunch of baloney anyway.

You, unfortunately, don't have the faintest clue about what true salvation in Christ is. All you want to do is make yourself out to be better than any other Wayward Spouse simply because YOU don't have a religion to call your own. You DO have one, though. You just don't recognize it. Redeem yourself???

Good luck. So far we've seen nothing "Redemptive" in any of your actions or plans. Everything has been focused on YOU.




Melody and Mrs. W. and Learning2Fly have TOLD you already, quite effectively. But you just don't "hear" because it's not what you "want to hear."

You just don't understand that it's your husband's "Turn" to choose. You knew about him and you knew about your Other Man. YOU had the information about both...and you CHOSE. Now he needs to know about you and about the Other Man, and it's his turn to choose.

WHY should he choose to remain married to you? Think about it. If you can't answer that question, his answer, his choice, is already predetermined.

You don't want to talk about God.
You don't want to talk about Jesus.
You don't want to talk about want to talk about Sin.
You don't want to talk about confessing your adultery to your husband.
You don't want to talk about Standards or Boundaries.
You don't want to talk about "doing what is RIGHT." You don't even know what IS right.
You don't want to talk about the consequences of adultery that you have brought on yourself.

What DO you want to talk about? How you can "get away" with adultery and have no consequences?

You will find out, over time, that the TRUTH will come out.
You will find out, over time, that there ARE consequences to all of your choices.
You will find out, over time, that despite your denial of any "absolute morality," there IS one that has been established by the one who DOES have the authority and the power to "make the rules" and "enforce the rules" regardless of what anyone thinks.

Josephine, all sarcasm, chiding, and taking you to task for what you have done and how you are treating your husband and your marriage aside, I sincerely hope that some day you do get a chance to really learn about Jesus and what He has done for ALL sinners. Perhaps this situation will teach you that you really are NOT "in control" of things and ARE in need of a Savior.


Good luck, you are going to need it.

Then how can you justify continuing to behave with a lack of morality and not one iota of integrity?

I believe they are pretty words and notions to you, but your actions do not match the ideals.

As for guilt, well, guilt is your brain and body telling you you've done something wrong and you need to fix something.

Why aren't you listening to them?

Because of the fear?

The fear that it will get worse.

It WILL get worse.

But it HAS to get worse before it'll have ANY chance of getting better.

Josephine,

IF you do not confess your A to your husband, here is what's going to happen:

HE IS GOING TO FIND OUT ANYWAY!!!!!! In case you did not understand that,let me tell you again.

HE IS GOING TO FIND OUT ANYWAY!!!!!period. That is what WILL happen. It will NOT stay secret. You will not get to keep your perfect(gag) little fantasy, your hope for a fairy-tale romance, your sweet memories of the perfect man.

If you don't tell him, someone else will. At some time, in some place. Please do not make the mistake of thinking that no one but you and your OM know about your affair. SOMEONE else knows. YOu just can't be sure who. This is a mistake my husband made. No one ever acknowledged that they knew he was having an affair, but when his fog started to clear, he realized there were MANY people who knew. Any one of them could have told me his dirty little secret at any time.

And guess what will happen next? You will lose EVERYTHING, including your fog-induced memory of Mr. Perfect. You will lose your husband, your family, your friends and your self-respect. Make no mistake of it, this WILL happen if you don't confess to your husband NOW!!!!

Your husband may choose to leave you anyway, but you will have some semblance of self-respect.

It is VERY clear that you are not going to live a life with your "perfect" other man. THAT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. He has used you, played with your emotions and your body and is NOT going to marry you.

If you divorce your husband and then don't end up with "Mr. Perfect" are you going to be honest with any man you might meet in the future and tell him about your affair and that you you continued to lie to your husband about it? Who would ever trust you?

Your ONLY hope for your marriage and a future for yourself is to stop lying to your husband and tell him NOW. YOUR ONLY HOPE!!!!

And what is this nonsense about not being able to talk to the OM's wife because of a language barrier? Ridiculous! Write a letter and find a translator. If you don't know of someone, let me know what language. I know a number of people who speak a LOT of languages and it would not be hard to get a letter translated.

I also made the mistake of not having my husband send a NC letter
because of a language barrier. He is willing now and I could have a letter transalted easily, but I feel that now it would actually be a violation of NC and neither of us needs the trigger.

Again, you need to realize the absolute truth here. YOUR HUSBAND IS GOING TO FIND OUT YOU HAD AN AFFAIR!!!! it would be best if he heard it from you.

You will have alot of help on here if you want it, but only marriage building help. No one is going to tell you to go find your affair partner and have a good life and no one is going to suggest that you can possibly keep this a secret.


WH2LE

I think we're all getting played a little here. Anyone else have that feeling?

Josephine, if you are for real, and I will give you the benefit of the doubt, this is the last word on this subject...

When you began the A, your marriage officially ended. Your husband may not be aware, but you broke the vows of marriage at the first instant of the A. You don't have to like that, but the skydiver whose parachute fails doesn't have to like gravity. It is a reality, nonetheless. I am still with my FWW, and have forgiven her. If she strays again, I will not renew the marriage covenant with her again and will let her go her own way. You don't realise that it is your husband's decision whether or not to reinstate your vows or to agree with the termination that accompanied your A. You are not the person you think you are if you allow this deception to go on, and he will almost certainly leave you if he finds out the double deception of the A and the failure to come clean.

You don't have to believe in any sort of religion to believe in the value of truth telling. It is a tenet of the great philosophies, whether religions or not, that lies are destructive and access to the truth is a right of every person. Science searches for the truth as its only aim, whether it finds it or not. You are deceiving yourself by considering the potential consequences to be more important than the truth. Be the good person that you believe you are and live with the results of your actions. If you are really honest with your husband and show remorse, he may very well forgive you. If you do not admit the truth to him, you will not be able to break things off with the OM, as there is no accountability. The fantasy will continue to spoil your life.

It's not that difficult:


Either keep your pants on, or get divorced.

It's so simple. WISE UP ALREADY!!!