What do YOU have to fight about right now? I know why your H is mad...but what position could you possibly take in an argument right now?

His leaving you is his right and his choice. You should not stand in his way if that is what he decides to do. What you can do is continue to be understanding and unconditionally honest.

I don't know if you are ready for this or not, but here goes nothing ...




It is true, feeling better about yourself as a person is a major part of recovery.
There are no short cuts to this.
In order to feel good about yourself as a person and as a wife, you must be doing good things ... not behaving shamefully.
Not pretending to be good on the surface.
Superficiality and appearances has been your downfall, your internal enemy.

I don't know if you are far enough into personal recovery to have discovered this yet. You had your affair and you allowed OM to take dirty pictures in order to "feel good" about yourself .... "quickly". In other words, you took a short cut to feeling good about yourself.

The trouble with short cuts in marriage recovery is .... you make the room appear neat & tidy by hiding the crap under the rug ... it still stinks, but you just can't see it.

No more short cuts. As someone said: "This is a marathon, not a sprint."






And it's hard not to stink and feel dirty if you hide the crap instead of washing it clean off.

You said : "Be a good person".

There is no short cut to this either.

Once again, you wanted to appear as a good person, by hiding the crap.

Here is my advice. BE a good person by behaving with grace, kindness, honesty, thoughtfulness, ethics, morality, and every other attribute you wish to bestow upon your character !

Whenever you backslide and behave in ways you should not be proud of, come "clean" as soon and as completely as possible.

You did not feel like a good person because you behaved badly. You hid your bad behavior in order to appear like a good woman TO YOURSELF. To Mr Z as well, but mainly TO YOURSELF.


There is reason to have hope. There is reason to believe you can be a woman who respects herself and deserves the respect of her husband.

This ~~~> "help us recover quickly" is not the mindset that will recover your marriage, or your self respect.

Hopefully,

Pep

Great advice, Pep. Every WS should be forced to copy your post 1000 times on a blackboard.

JM

I think you've watched The Simpsons once or twice.

Bart wrote:

I will not cut corners.
" " " " "
" " " " "
" " " "




Pep

Mrs.Z, I hope you and your husband don't divorce if you are willing to CHANGE. I love you two because you are going through the hardest thing imaginable, and you need love and prayers.

I want to let you in on something you have heard before...
Tell your husband anything and everything there is left to know immediately! Tell him that you are sorry, and that though you all might have had problems before the A, there was no excuse for it. You both contributed to getting the marriage to the breaking point, and you both need to make dramatic changes in the future, but please take the responsibility for the actual mistake of the A. Do it now and get it over with, if you really want to reclaim your M. He feels lower than dirt because his pride was crushed, but that will give him something back.

My wife admitted the A and ended it. She told me many of the details. We were working on recovery. The only problem was that I was nearly certain that she was holding out on the deepest truth. Guess what...when I calmly but firmly confronted her and wouldn't take no for an answer, she admitted that they had SF. You can look up the "New, need help forgiving or forgetting" thread I started for the details, but that is the main point. I was stuck in recovery until she broke down the last wall. We have talked about it at length now, and I don't think there is any more hiding behind the bushes. There could be, but I do believe her. Recovery really does get pushed back to zero when more revelations occur.

Don't get me wrong, I was angry but never screamed at her. I thought about dumping her, but we have two beautiful children and she was a good wife prior to the A. However, the marriage was over as far as my responsibility to my vows when she first approached the OM about a relationship. She broke the vows and I had to decide if I wanted to reinstate them or not. We are working on recovering now, and hope to spend the rest of our lives together. We both realise that it is going to be work, and that we have to do things very differently than we did prior to the A.

I can tell you that if she would have come out earlier and told me the truth within a shorter period of time and actually apologised and said she was sorry right away, I would have had an easier time of it. I don't mean you have to put on some show for him, but just look into his eyes and tell him you can't imagine how you have hurt him, but that you want to make it right. Tell him anything else there might have been, and that you are sorry for holding out and won't anymore. He might not be jumping into your arms right away, but it will make an impression on him and help you all in the long run. I wish you well.

MrsZonie,

Don't panic. Plenty of people here will remind you he has the right to leave but IMHO you should also be reminded that lots of people say during a fight that they're leaving and they don't. He may even be testing you to see how easily you give up, so don't act based on what he says after a fight.

Give him a little time to calm down. Then apologize and let him know you're willing to do whatever is humanly possible to work things out. But you have to follow through on that. You have to be willing to let him yell and say things you don't want to hear (as long as it doesn't turn into habitual verbal abuse, though but if it does, don't return fire - just remove yourself from the situation and let him calm down.)

This guy is pretty harsh, but in this case he's absolutely right. Do you actually read our responses to you and look inside yourself to figure out what's so broken about you? How could you have possibly participated in a "fight" after all you've done? I'm starting to think this is a hoax. Not really, but it's occurred to me. That should tell you how ridiculous you sound. You're about two steps beyond the *edit* I'm done stage with your husband. You need to wake up fast. I don't even know you and I'm angry with you just from the things you say here. God knows what crap comes out of your mouth in the heat of a fight. You take offense at being called a *edit* ? Others have said it before - *edit*

Mrs. Z,

I can't tell you how many times I thought I wanted to leave after the affair.

It happens. Then I would cool off and try again.

The key to this is that the WS has to stay cool ---- this means YOU need to be the calm one.

Sorry - but it is time for you to put on your big girl pants and be the GIVER, not the taker. In this case, you will have to GIVE your husband all that you have in

understanding
caring
compassion
love
empathy
sympathy
patience
kindness


All those and more.

You nuked the marriage. Now, you are on the hazardous waste clean-up team, and you are the head guy. You have to take the lead.

Even though you don't know much about what to do - you have to do it. Glad you're here. You're getting great advice from Pep and from Aph, and the rest.

So...from the BS perspective, here's what I wanted from my husband when he nuked the marriage:

No more lying. And NO, I didn't want to have to sit there and figure out what question I had to ask, and exactly how I had to word it, in order to get the exact piece of information in the exact way to be pried out of his mouth!!!!

Mrs. Z, I haven't posted to you before. I'm not a 2X4 person. But, (now, you know the "but" essentially cancels what came before it!), but, I have to ask you to consider this question:

Do you consider how humiliating it is for your husband to have to sit and think of the questions he needs to ask his WIFE about her activities with her LOVER, and then to actually have to ask them?


Consider that level of pain and humiliation. Then,

SPARE HIM.

What I wanted from my husband, and unfortunately never got, was the "story", from start to finish, of what happened, why it happened, how it happened, without me having to pry it out of him. I wanted him to take the initiative to set aside the date and to carve out all of the time it would take to tell me this information, and to give it to me willingly, with an honest and open heart. I wanted him to just tell me what he told her, what they spoke of, what he was thinking of me when they were together, what he was thinking of when we were together, his sense of regret - if any - and how he managed his thoughts during that time. I wanted details of "dates" to some extent, to know where they went and when, why they chose certain places. I wanted to know where in my home they were, what vehicles of mine, what was "defiled", what was "safe".

I wanted him to tell me what he thought on d-day, and what he thought NOW, and where he thought we could be a month, 6 months, a year from now.

But NO, I did not want to drag this out of him. I didn't want to humiliate myself, to beg him for it. I was hurt. I was devastated. My self-esteem was in the toilet, and going down for the third time.

He made me ask. He expected me to hurry up and "get over it". He "forgot" to tell me little things, and they creeped out over weeks, months. It would have been years, except I threatened to leave at one point.

He made me ask.
He never just told me the truth.
He made me word the questions "just right".
He made me work for the truth.


HE WAS LIKE YOU.


Our recovery? It was a LOT harder than it had to be. Because he wouldn't talk to me.

I had to do the heavy lifting. Until.......

I threatened to leave him.


It took me a lot longer to do that than it took Mr. Z.


So, maybe he's doing you a favor, in a way. He's telling you early on, that this is going to take YOU doing the heavy lifting. The favor is that he is moving the job to the person who needs to do the work - and that is the right thing to do. It will make your personal recovery faster, and the marital recovery stronger.



You need to tell him the truth. No-holds-barred. Tell him, and take it from me, ultimately, you will tell him - you can do it the easy way or the hard way. Do it the easy way, and you can save the marriage, and get through this easier and faster.

Or do it your way. The hard way. Your choice. Just know that the choice makes a difference.


I hope this helps you in some way. I like that you are confessing. It is good for the soul. Good for the marriage. It is hard to do - but the ultimate product is worth it.

And, by the way, hang in there.

Schoolbus

Pep,
That analogy of hiding crap under a rug... wow, that's exactly what I was doing. I know I can't look for the quick fix, and I feel like I'm just now taking my first baby steps on a long road.

Zonie asked weeks ago if I ever said I loved the OM and I told him no, but last night I told him the truth, so this was another lie revealed. After I revealed the lie, I told him how committed I was to the truth now. As I said that, he cocked his head back a little and smiled a disbelieving smile. What? He doesn't believe me? How dare he! And I got angry. Then we argued until 2am about how I didn't have a right to be pissy with him and I countered it with how he needs to not smirk at me when I'm trying to be truthful. I know how pathetic this all sounds, but there it is.

This morning after I dropped my daughter off at school, I came home and tried to talk to Zonie again. I told him how I don't know how to be. If I am truthful, he won't believe me even if I say I love him. He said that I need to not attack him for not believing me after only two days of the beginning of real progress. I just stood there. I opened my mouth to speak, but I didn't have any words. He left for work and I sat there on the bed trying to figure out what to do. I cried for a loooong time. I called my mother and told her about some of the lies I told Zonie, even about the pictures. Then, I talked more to Zonie on the phone and I was as humble as I could be. All I could say was how much I wanted to be totally honest with him and I promised I would not get angry if he doesn't believe me. I told him that I wanted to tell my boss about the A. You see, I told my boss about 6 weeks ago that we were having marital problems. I lied to her and told her that it was because Zonie drank! I told Zonie about this a few weeks ago, but I felt today that I needed to pull his body out from under the bus. I threw him there, and I wanted to try to make amends. So, I called my boss (with Zonie's permission) and told her about the A. I explained that I had not been honest with her and I owed it to my dh to tell the truth. We had a great talk, I was surprised how non-judgemental she was. Then, I asked her if she was wondering who it was. She said, "is it someone I know?" and I said yes. She guessed it right away. I'm sure a lot of people at work knew.

Zonie and I talked right afterwards and he was grateful that I did this. I think it helped him believe that I'm starting to take accountability for what I've done and he seems happy that I did it.

I do think we're going to talk to the Harley's though. We're not seeing an MC and I really think it would help. What concerns us about a typical MC is if they don't coincide with MB concepts, it's going to send us down a different path. We both agree with the MB concepts. I need to figure out a way to not react to my emotions during our talks. I think some marriage coaching will help.

So, that's where we're at now. I'm going to try to take a break from the boards for awhile and focus on us. Thank you for your insights.

-MrsZ

{{{{{{ Mr & Mrs Zonie }}}}}}

I pulled this one off my "notable posts" thread.

It's written by a recovered WW (SMK) ... describing her recovery timeline. I think you and Mr Z will find it interesting reading.

Love, Pep



The SMK chronicles

Hi Everyone.
I know there are a lot of new people here who do not know my story. A year ago, I ended a 6 month EA/PA, and really didn’t know what I wanted out of life, out of my marriage - or even out of myself. At the time, I confessed the A to my H, I really wasn’t sure what I was doing. I didn’t know how the A started, I didn’t know what I was doing, I didn’t even know who I was anymore. When I told my H about the EA/PA, I told him that I wanted to try and work things out - that I loved him and I didn’t know how this could have happened to us. In my mind, I was so confused, that I kind of told myself that I would “give it a year” to see what would happen. That if “things” didn’t get better, work out, whatever - then my H and I both would have to decide what to do.

Anyway, in April, it will have been 1 year since the EA/PA ended for good. My H and I are going to the Outer Banks for vacation, but I am planning several surprises for my H - to thank him for his love, kindness, compassion and patience over the past year. He really is the love of my life.

The following, I thought might be kind of interesting for some, but mainly, it was kind of a cleansing experience for myself - to see where I started and how far my H and I have come in recovery. It's a collection of some of my posts at various points in recovery.

I know we still have a long life/marriage ahead of us, but I thought I’d share the following. . .so, that BS and WS both can see that there is hope under the worst of situations. Again, THIS IS LONG, and I pretty much gathered all of this for my own development, but. . .If you find yourself needing something to read, to give you hope whatever your situation, here it is, the SKM CHRONICLES.

"Low-Life Slug Days(3 Months After DDay)

Right now, every day, I feel like this huge failure. Even though I know I've been forgiven by God and my H, I still feel pretty worthless. It's like I view everyone else on this higher level, an even level where no one has cheated, lied or gotten into trouble - and by the choices I made, I'm living on this sub-human level. I not only hurt the one person that I truly love, but I've completely blown any self-respect I may have had for myself.”

I've have asked my husband Why do you love me? Why do you stay with me when all I do is cry? Maybe it would be easier for me to leave? Each time, my H answers those questions lovingly, honestly and patiently. He loves me, he wants to spend the rest of his life with me. I guess he sees some good in me that I just can't right now.”

Panic & Stupid Questions (4 Months After DDay)

Today he (OM) calls. Just a few minutes ago. I'm in such a panic, my heart is in my throat. I truly don't know what to do. I know that I don't love this person, but can you ever be friends? In my mind, I think I crossed that line a long time ago, and it's too late to be friends. I really feel up-rooted right now. I don't want to hurt my H, I don't want to hurt my marriage, I just really need some to tell me what to do. If your reading, please respond.

My H is aware of the contact, but I didn't tell him about the first phone call until a week had past. Why? I don't know - even though there are probably a lot of theories out there. But for that one week, I felt absolutely miserable - not that I was starting anything up or wanted to, but I felt like I didn't say stop calling me strong enough. I'm a whimp. I have trouble saying no (and that's quite obvious).
I'll tell my H tonight, see what he thinks, get his help. I just hate unloading all of this stuff on him. I feel so darn selfish, it's all "me, me, me." Will it ever end? In my heart, I know it will eventually, and I know he stands with me. I don't want to be mean to the OM, but my H is more important to me than anyone else in this world. So, I just have to fix my focus again. When I posted earlier, I physically felt like I was going to vomit.

“I Don’t Know” - 4 ½ Months After DDay

As a betrayer, I give a lot of "I don't know" answers to my H - even now that we're almost 5 months into recovery. I don't use the "I don't know" response to get out of answering a tough question or to spare my H's feelings, I honestly don't know.

I don't know why the A happened, I don't know why I was attracted to this person, I don't know why I still think about the OM (occasionally), and I don't know why I cry sometimes, I don't know why I look distant, I don't know why I don't feel "happy" right now. I think they're genuine answers to difficult questions.

Well, everyday I'm with my H, I see how wonderful, caring and loving he is. He truly loves me - even after all I've put him through. He knows when something is wrong, and he cares enough to find out what it is. He's my best friend and an awesome H.

The love I have for my H may not be the same as when we first got married, but I think we will eventually have a stronger love.

High Expectations and “The Vacation” - 5 Months After DDay

I guess I expected the clouds to disappear and the skies to open - that the magic wand would have been waved and everything would be perfect - everything would go back to normal. Well, I guess my lesson learned is to be careful for what you wish for - because everything DID go back to normal. We were bickering over small things, I was irritable, I was moody, I was having doubts once again, I was thinking about the OM - again - I was thinking way too much.

Anyway, when we got home, I asked my H how he thought our vacation was - he said he had a great time. I asked him to rank it among other vacations that we had taken, and he gave it a B+. He asked me what I thought, and I said (excuse my verbiage) I thought it sucked. And he asked why, so I told him how I was feeling - what I had expected - that it wasn't anybody's fault (maybe even more my fault than his), I just wished it would have been different - more loving than bickering. And it wasn't all bickering, but I guess that's what I focused on - I guess it was my perception, I don't know if it was warped or what - but my H thought things went great. But I gave the vacation a C - average, nothing spectacular.

I then asked my H to name five things that were good about the trip - his number one answer was that he got to spend it with me. I melted.

I guess I finally realized that we may not have a perfect marriage - but we're trying.

Remorse, Again - 5 ½ Months After DDay

But, I'm having those feelings all over again - that I'm worthless, that I don't know why my H still loves me - even after the affair, even after I told him that our vacation sucked.

When you're younger, you always try to think about who you will be when you grow up, what you'll be doing . . .Well, I don't really like the person I've become, or the type of person I represent.

Now, I realize that I don't really like who I am, what I did. I cry most of the time - instead of laugh. I'm irritable and moody - not loving or lovable. I make no positive contributions to my life or anyone else's. My H deserves better than me, the world could do without me. (Have you noticed that the pity party has started?)

The Freakin’ Plates - 6 Months After DDay

Lately, I've been trying to do nice things for my H - buying him little things, calling him, e-mailing him. . .trying to do my share of rebuilding our marriage. But he can get into bad moods, too, and the other night he wanted me to move so that he could get some plates out for dinner. . .And I said that the plates in the dishwasher are clean, let me get two out of there. . .I figured, hey no sense getting out new plates then putting away more plates. . .They were all clean, right. . .call me lazy. . .but he just looked at me with this disgusted look. . .Mind you, I have been trying really hard to change and not be so selfish. . .and I was in a really good mood - for once, those seem hard to come by, at least in the early stages. . .But anyway, no thank you for getting the plates out, nothing. . .that didn't bother me, but I could tell he wasn't happy . . .because if you don't do it his way, well, you just aren't doing it right. . .I don't want to sound mean, but we got into a little tiff - about freakin plates!

That led to me thinking, what did I do wrong, do you still love me, are you always going to love me. . .For a WS, I think we, in the back of our minds are still worried that our Hs haven't really forgiven us - that if it were so easy for us to have an affair (especially since I wasn't looking for one) then when I'm a monster, or get cranky. . .will he say "that's it, that's enough." It scares me to think that he would leave me. . .but it's a very real fear. . .I think mainly because I haven't actually forgiven myself and that maybe - even though he's always been faithful to me - I could stand to lose him. . .That I did this horrible thing and a plate or a look could send him over the edge and packing. . .

Coming To My Senses? - 7 Months After DDay

I guess for me. . .it has been 3 months since absolute no contact, it's been over 6 months since I ended the affair. . .and in all honesty, I finally see and realize that I never loved the OM - it was an infatuation - it was someone making me feel special, making me feel attractive, making me feel happy. . .Yeah, I guess he was meeting some of my needs, whatever they were at the time. . .but now, after three months of no contact, I really can see the relationship for what it was - it wasn't love.

Sometimes, I feel like we take each other for granted, but you know I would rather be working on my marriage (to the greatest guy in the world) than maintaining contact with the OM. . .My H really is my best friend and I cannot imagine my life without him in it. . .Sometimes, it takes that realization for the WS to break out of the fog. . .For me, I finally decided that I could not hurt my H anymore, that I had to give 100% to my marriage, and after 6 months, things have gotten better.

The affair is nothing but an illusion of happiness and that true happiness comes from within.

I myself am a WS spouse, and sometimes I lash out at my H, and at times it seems like I am one huge blob of irritableness, insensitivity, selfishness, and negativity. I feel like a walking nightmare sometimes. . .

There are days I just want to quit my job and sell coconuts on the beach - but deep down I know that will never happen.

More Revelations - 8 Months After DDay

At the time, I knew my H was a loving and patient person. But, now, after 7 months, I am finally starting to really appreciate what he has gone through, for "us." And we're finally starting to meet each others' needs -instead of my H just trying to meet my needs.

I'm learning and growing too. I cannot change the past - I'm just learning to live with it. But, if a Genie came along and granted me one wish - it would be that this whole thing never would have happened. So, I consider the affair a mistake - cause if I had to do it over again, I would have chosen not to have one.

But for me, the affair brought out everything that was "ugly" in me as far as my character was concerned. I lied more and cheated more than I ever thought possible. I hurt and caused pain beyond what I thought humanly possible. Yes, I am a better person today than I was during the affair. But the credit doesn't go to the OM, to my H, or even to me. For me, the fact that I am a "better" person today - well, the credit belongs to God.

Remorse, Again and June Cleaver - 8 Months After DDay

I'm doing okay I guess. I have days were I feel really upbeat and then there are days I just feel blah. The past few days I've been pretty blah. Lately, I guess I've just been thinking too much.

I guess I've just been thinking a lot about how much time I have wasted in this whole affair mess - I don't know. I think it's a whole new level of remorse - not as severe, but different. And I know, I can't change the past, I need to rejoice in today - but today, I just regret the time that I have missed out on.

I KNOW it's stupid so don't get mad at me - I just feel like "what kind of mother would I make anyway?" I'm not exactly June Cleaver. . .And I think about how children are a blessing from God, and maybe, well, maybe I just don't deserve that kind of blessing now.

Tis the Season To Be Jolly - 9 Months After DDay

This past weekend, my H and I went to two Christmas Parties - one was being held by a mutual friend and one was being held primarily by one of my friends. We went to both, but on both nights of the parties, it took all I had to get myself together and to get myself into a "social" mood.

No one knows about my A - except for me, my H and the OM So, whenever I go into a social situation with friends, I always feel like I'm keeping this dark, nasty secret - that on top of all the bad feelings I've been having lately, well, throw alcohol into the mix - and I'm just a disaster waiting to happen.

In fact, last night I sat in the living room and just cried my eyes out while my H put up our Christmas tree. I didn't even have the energy this year to get a tree, and I always have a tree - even make a big event out of decorating it.

All WSs have their crosses to bear - mine is learning to forgive myself, and it's been very very hard. If I don't watch it or shake out of those "remorseful" periods, I am no better of a recovered WS than someone who is still involved in an affair.

I think the one thing that has helped my H and I get through this is open and honest communication. And I guess, for me at least, that my H would just sit in silence with me if I didn't feel like talking, he would ask questions, he would ask follow-up, probing questions to get at how I was feeling, but the most important thing was that he was willing to listen to what I had to say and at least try to understand where I was coming from.

I mean, he doesn't know what I'm going through - or what I went through - or why it happened, but he listens with an open mind. It's kind of like putting antiseptic on a wound, at first all this honest communication stings, but I think it has helped us to heal. My H has never once berrated me - even though I know I have hurt him and I know I can be frustrating at times. He never gave up on me - and I guess that's what really mattered in the end.

The Idealist - Where Were You a Year Ago? - 10 Months After DDay

I'm a Christian, and while I haven't been a good example of Christian fortitude in the past, I guess my relationship with God has become stronger. So, now, when I read the posts about what people wish for the OP (and I think it should also be said about the WS, too) - no matter how horrible the OP/WS has been, I guess I just get "sad" to hear all this anger and bitterness. I'm a very introspective person - like you probably couldn't tell- but I think a lot about everything. I'm not saying that people shouldn't come here and vent. In fact I think everyone has a right to be angry, sad, hurt, whatever by what is happening to them. But, at this point in my recovery, it's just sad that there has to be so much anger and bitterness. Again, perfectly normal and probably okay to feel that way - but when that anger or bitterness makes people say ugly things - I don't know - I am in no way judging people at all - but it just makes me sad.

It does feel good to know that I'm not just shooting blanks - that maybe something I have said has touched someone - anyone. You all have been a blessing to me as well.

What I've Learned - 11 Months(totally plagiarized from a response given to me by Just Learning)

In one year have taken [my] marriage down to its bedrock and found that it was firmly set on bedrock not sifting sand.

In one year have learned that [my] H loves [me] more than he can say or show.

In one year have learned that despite temptation do love [my] H.

In one year have learned to appreciate the good qualities of [my] H.

In one year your H has learned to appreciate the good qualities in you.

In one year [we] both have learned something that many people never learn. That people love and are good to one another not because they are perfect but in spite of their imperfections.

In one year [we] both have learned how to take a marriage to a new depth.

In one year [we] have learned that the future is not that predictable so do the best with the present that you can.

In one year [we] have learned not to forget. So [we won’t] ever forget what [we] have learned.

The reason this year was a success is because [my H and I] refused to let it be a failure."

To all my friends at Marriagebuilders, especially Just Learning, I thank God every day for guiding me to this site. All of the caring people, all of the sharing of ideas, all of the warmth that has come through to me through your responses, well, it’s made life in my little corner of the world a little easier and a little sweeter than when I started.

I will never be able to put into words how much all of you mean to me, and I cannot adequately express my sincere appreciation for the words of encouragement, words of honesty, and words of understanding. There were a thousand times I was ready to give up or give in - but you all wouldn’t let me, my H wouldn't let me. And, all I can say to everyone here is “thank you from the bottom of my heart.” I think my H and I are going to be just fine.

In April, I plan to do the offical one-year post. My H also agreed to post with me - only the second time he has done so.

Anyway - to anyone who read through this - congratulations - this was my LONGEST post, but not my last
_________________________

With all my heart I wish I get to experience this one day.

And my WH knows how much I truly loved him.

Thanks Pep for digging this out.

Thank you Pep for getting this post. I can totally relate to it. I notice when I get depressed, I feel guilty for being depressed! It's emotions piled onto other emotions. Right now, my biggest challenge with Mr Z is not reacting to my emotions when he talks about triggers. I hear him talk, and I get defensive because he is in despair that I caused. As he put it, I need to get over myself. But, I really feel like the fog is lifting to the point where I can really listen without reacting. I couldn't say that even three days ago. It takes a very concerted effort with each conversation to just LISTEN. I know I haven't mastered this yet, but I know what to do and I'm giving it my all.