Hi,

I have been a long time reader on MB, and the time has come for me to step up and ask for help with my situation. My WW and I have been disconnected for some time now. Through e-mail surveying, I have discovered that she is now in a PA. This has gone on for some time from what was discovered. I can reveal more about that later. Recently she changed her e-mail password and then found the keylogger on our PC. Her finding the Keylogger has made her quite angry and is immediately playing the "Divorce" card. We have not yet talked about it but I'm sure tonight will be the big discussion. I need to get my head on straight and prepare my plan. The plan is what I need help with.

I have already read all the Plan A and Plan B material. I have been doing Plan A for quite a while.

I have read all of the Infidelity articles. About 5yrs when things had gone awry previously, I read HN/HN's and also had read many weeks on these forums. Wow, there is so many situations similar to ours.

My biggest LB is poor communication. Mostly because when my WW trys to talk to me she is disrepectful and self-centered. This shuts me right down and I don't know what to say without being disrepectful back at her, and I usually end up saying nothing at all. She doesn't understand that the way she approaches me, has a huge impact on how I respond, or don't respond.

Her behavior is very independent and always has been. I have always let her make her own decisions and choices. This was one of here biggest complaints from a previous marriage. So, I try hard to let her do her own thing.

So, where to go from here? My head is scrambled right now and I need to get it straightened out.

TIA

Willy66

How long have you been married? Kids? How long has the A been going on? What happened earlier in the M which made you seek out MB? What do you know about OM?

You say you've been in Plan A. What have you done to try to end the A? A huge part of Plan A is doing whatever you can to end the A. As long as WW is involved in the A, your marriage doesn't have a chance, this means that even during Plan A when you are trying to be the best spouse you can be you are going to have to be willing to risk upsetting your WW by intefering as much as effectively possible in her affair.

As far as tonight, if you don't want to get a divorce, then your mantra needs to be "I love you and want our marriage to be a good marriage for both of us. I believe that is possible but it can't happen while you are involved with another man. I hope the time comes when you will decide to give our marriage a chance." If she pushes for divorce tell her that you are not prepared to talk about that and would have to speak to a lawyer before discussing it with her.

Tyk, Thanks!

"How long have you been married? Kids? How long has the A been going on? What happened earlier in the M which made you seek out MB? What do you know about OM?"

13 yrs, Twin boys, age 10. WW has 2 older boys, 30 and 26,

The PA is complex, early in our R, she told me she had a secret that she would never tell anyone.I could never get it out of her, but I finally have a hunch what it is. She had a PA with the the OM in her previous M. Roughly, 26 yrs ago. At that time the OM was married, but, is now divorced and single. She chose to stay in her previous M because of the kids. She then ended her previous M when her FH had a PA.

Fast forward to our M. She re-kindled the PA about 6 yrs ago when there was a communication break down between us. Out of the blue, she brought up D then and I stood my ground and told here that I was commited to our marriage and would not let it end. I don't know if she ever knew that I discovered what was going on back then, we never discussed. My Bad. I was able to Plan A then and get things back on track but I never exposed at that time and the PA went dormant til recently. Now I know the importance of exposure. Lesson learned.

I guess, if she hadn't had any secrets, she shouldn't be upset with me about spying. So, the spying on my part was a good thing, right?

I 100% agree with what you stated should be my mantra tonight. That is where I will stand when we talk tonight. Any other advise for the confrontation?

Thanks Again!


Willy66

I think everyone has a right to know the truth about thier marriage, if it takes spying to find it, then spy.

My WW was insane on our D-Day. From lying through her teeth to pissed off to breaking down crying confessing and back to lying.

Try to mentally prepare yourself to hold your ground and remain calm. I even made some notes of the things I wanted to be sure to say so I didn't forget anything important.

You just have to remain strong in your conviction that you still want to be married and believe it is possible and have a PLAN for how it can happen, but that it WILL NOT HAPPEN with OM involved.

Try to avoid throwing out any ultimatums, you don't need to back yourself into any corners with careless words.

Really, its going to be mainly about her and her reaction. You're going to learn alot tonight about her frame of mind, just be prepared for it to be very emotionally charged and for her to say some very mean things to you, things that will hurt you deeply. Commit yourself to remaining very calm. I was very ready, and I lost it a bit, but did much better than I thought I would.

Good luck, its going to be a hard night, but having the truth out is going to be such a relief, I know it was for me. I got much good advice pre d-day from the people here, my pre-dday thread is here in general but the search function isn't working nor are my links.

Tyk, I will see if I can find your threads. Are they in GQII?

Thanks again!

Willy66

Pre D-Day thread is in GQII, but actually wasn't started by me!

What mess, I'll find it for you!

Post d-day is in Recovery section still on front page but won't benefit you as much today!

BRB

Here's my pre-d day thread:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1938974&fpart=1

Our situations were similar in that I had to get proof to figure out what was going on in my life and confront my WW with it, I had time to plan this out and got much good advice similar to what I am telling you now.

I'm sure its by no means the best example but you may get something out of it. Shortly after D-Day my thread switched to recovery so you may start at the middle of the pre d day thread as the first 1/2 is the lead up to d day.

I also have some questions about exposure, to make sure it goes correctly. I can just about imagine the grief I will be bringing upon myself, but, I realize it must happen.

When do I begin talking to others?

Part of me wants to try to talk to the OM? Is that a crazy thought?

Willy66

Not crazy, but unlikely to be effective in most cases. Realize you're dealing with a person of very low integrity, so appealing to reason and honor and morals and such simply don't have the impact upon them that one would hope.

I believe you said OM was divorced? Are you sure that is true?

Unless you will be able to get something very useful out of exposure before tonight I would suggest putting it on hold until you've thought it through more thoroughly. Targets for exposure would be anyone you think would be able to apply pressure to the waywards to end the A. Anyone the waywards would not WANT to know because it would have a negative impact on thier reputation, thier job, thier social group, etc. Generally its best to start with family, close friends, OP's spouse or GF.

I think you should see how tonight goes. DO NOT tell your W that you are considering exposing. This will just give her time to run around and paint you as a jealous psycho, telling people the marriage is over and the A has nothing to do with your problems, etc. Don't give her the chance to do that, it will greatly decrease or even negate the benefits of exposing.

Also, tonight: DO NOT under any circumstances agree to leave your home. If WW wants to leave, let her, WITHOUT the kids.

What I did on my D-Day was take our daughter to my parents house. I told them the situation and told them that they were not to release my daughter to anyone but myself nor answer any calls from my WW until I they had spoken TO ME.

I was prepared for her to leave, but it was not going to be with my daughter, and if I HAD to leave, it was going to be to my parents house where I would be with my girl.

You might consider arranging for your kids to be in a safe place outside of your WW's influence this evening.

Yes, OM is divorced, I checked the court records.

I also understand the no telling on the exposure. I will see how tonite goes and then come up with a plan.

What if my WS asks me to move out of our bedroom into a spare room downstairs? Do I stand my ground and say that she is the one that moves?


What do I say if she comes with, there are too many broken issues to resolve and she doen't want to try?


I think I'm losing my mind??


Willy66

She's the one cheating, she can switch beds if she needs to sleep elsewhere.

If she says the "too many issues to resolve" you simply tell her you don't believe that is true, that you believe you can find a way to have a happy marriage, that you are committed to working to make that happen, that you have in fact found a PLAN that shows you both how to achieve this. But that it isn't possible without her help, and it isn't possible with another man involved.

If she asks how this happens, you tell her that it begins with her ending her relationship with OM. No Contact is the first step to halting the damage she has caused. It won't heal the wounds, but it will stop further damage. Right now, No Contact is what you are trying to achieve. Everything else flows from that. Nothing happens until she's ended the A.

You also accept full responsibility for your part of the problems in the marriage BEFORE the A. However, those flaws do NOT justify her decision to have an affair. She will have all kinds of excuses for why she did what she did, and that's all they are, excuses. She probably believes them herself right now, we call that wayward mentality "fog" around here. You aren't going to cut through the fog in an evening, so its best to prepare yourself for a good deal of babble from her and alot of venom.

Your goals for tonight: REMAIN CALM! Speak the truth, express your love and your desire for the marriage to be a happy marraige for BOTH of you, remain steadfast in your belief that things can change for the better but recognize the fact that it isn't possible with OM in the picture. Do not waver from that, do not cave to "just be friends" or any of that crap. There's no reason to even set yourself up to go down that road, as you KNOW it isn't possible. NC is an uncompromising boundary. She may or may not be willing to agree to that tonight, don't push it, but don't budge from the reality that it will be required. Do not accept blame that isn't yours, but don't die on the cross for it right now either. Get used to saying things like "I hear what you are saying, I don't agree but I understand that you feel that way right now. I think we can find a way to get past that if we work together to do so. ."

Confrontation did not happen last night as planned, I just did not feel properly prepared, I could not come up with what my boundary's were going to be. My thoughts were still too scrambled. She got home late with the boys and I was already asleep.

Tyk, I read your thread and found a lot of similarities and good stuff that got me thinking about the broader picture. Thanks for sharing.

I did have a revelation this morning and am working to write down what I was thinking about so I can make sense of it all. What I have figured out about our breakdown in communication is that I am carrying around all these "secrets" of hers and it makes me too cautious in conversation with her. I try too hard to not slip up and reveal that I know more about whats going on than I lead her to believe that I know. All this baggage is now too much for me to handle any more, so, My plan is to come clean about what I know and see how she reponds, I'm sure it will be anger. The truth is, I am the betrayed spouse and I should no longer feel guilty of myself for spying on her. I do have the right to know the truth and she is the one that should shoulder the guilt of hiding all this from our marriage, not, me. My boundary is going to be, "There must be a committment to being truthful and honest towards our marriage, and also, NC is a must". The PA must end.

I am starting to feel ready to confront this weekend. I want to be sure I have my "A" game ready. Ifeel a little less paniced today.

Willy66

That's good man, being able to plan for and choose the time and place of battle is an advantage.

Keep us posted, ask questions if you have them. One way or another, things will improve for you.

Still no confrontation, WS was gone for the weekend with the S-10's. The weather was nice yesterday afternoon when they got back and the boys wanted to go fishing. We got home about 9pm and by the time I got the fish taken care of WS was already asleep. WS work schedule changed today and will be home about 3pm. I made arrangements for the boys to go somewhere after school. I'll be home at 3 and confront.

I've been contemplating where things have gone wrong with our M. I'm sure the WS would say it's mostly due to my lack of communication. How do I say that the reason I am withdrawn from cummuncation is due to the way she approaches me and is disrepectful towards me? Her behaviors have contributed to the enviroment of our marriage which had caused me to become withdrawn.



TIA

Willy66

Cause and effect causes greater effects. It's always a killer that is hard to nail down and sort thru believe me.

You are responsible for your part of the M. She is responsible for hers. Those things do not excuse her CHOICE to have an affair.

It is likely that she is going to blame you for making her unhappy. This is not true, no one MAKES anyone feel any particular way, and regardless, if she were unhappy and felt it was your fault, she should have done many things other than cheat, right? She's going to tell you that she has been unhappy for a very long time, blah blah blah. The truth is, the A is contributing to her unhappiness. It is based on a fantasy, and in comparison, the M seems unhappy. The lies and deception involved also contribute to her unhappiness. She is going to be very unlikely to realize or accept this with the A ongoing.

You are dealing with a long term affair, its a bit of a different animal than what many of us have experienced, but the goal is the same: you have to end the A before you can hope to have success fixing the other problems in your M. You need to recognize that those problems exist, and recognize that you will have to be willing to make changes to fix those problems (as will she), but those problems are secondary to the problem of infidelity and can't be fixed until the main problem is fixed.

Thanks Tyk,

I'm not sure why, but I seem to keep going over and over in my head that it's all my fault.

The number 1 problem with our marriage right now is infidelity! So, I will press this issue and push off the others til the time is right. Do yo think it's better to only reveal that I think this is a recent issue? Should I hold back the fact that I know it goes way back in time?


Willy66