Let me tell that is a load of crap and I am sorry you bought into it. The child will not care if daddy was there for the birth. MOST kids don't ask and don't care. What they care about comes later. That is having two loving parents raising them together. However, sadly in these cases, the betrayal pert near makes that impossible. OW typically do not want the BW in the picture and the child was solely a tool to try to trap the man. (my apologies to the OW that did NOT do that).

Going to Dr. appts and the birth is support the OW, not the child. Yes, it leads to the delusion on the OW part that now they are a happy family.

As a mother of 3 .....as woman that comes from a big family....there is no concern about daddy being there at birth...they will never ask that...like FF said...it is a load of crap....

Ok I understand that DNA was taken during the pregnacy...he knew it was his....those reports he wanted to know about the sex and health could of came thru the medical reports from the dr...mailed to him....

He could of went down to the hospital with YOU to veiw the baby in the nursey....

He could of showed he cared for OC without being there for his mother... and that is all he was doing there...was to support the mother...not the OC....

Your right it gave her fantasy....give them a inch they take a mile....and she is going to cause you hell with them fantasy...he wants to show OC how much he cares...he does it the legal way...thru the courts and fight for his rights there....cause no matter what....he has no rights until he does so...weather he is daddy or not...he has none.... every fantasy you let her grab ahold of....brings all the drama...OC does not deserve that.

Don't just mark Faithy's words, mark mine.

You WILL have 2 (or more) OCs if you continue to let them both guilt you into this mess.

He has an obligation to the CHILD - who is NOT here yet - and that is all!

He cannot make her eat. She is USING this child ALREADY as a pawn in HER machinations. Once he realizes that, he will begin to open his eyes to this sham of a relationship.

He is sure that this child is his, ill start with that. I love children, have always loved them. I know that even when baby's have not been born their surroundings and the mothers care has a big effect on the baby. He still has contact with her, he feels he needs to check to make sure she is ok because she has his baby. I am having a hard time dealing with that. I dont know what kind of boundaries i need to tell him to set. if it were to me i would tell him never to talk to her in his life but i know thats not going to happen. He wants to be part of his baby's life but assures me he wants nothing to do with her. How much time should we give each other before i should tell him whether i forgive him or not? its has only been about a week since i found out. We are also having problems because he does not have a job and is having a difficult time finding one. We have a house and cars and well everything else together. I have already forgiven the cheating but the baby situation is eating me inside. We wanted a baby together and now this happened. I dont know if i should just tell him that we need to take some months apart while he figures out what he wants. I know he's torn apart, depressed, and wishes the world would suck him in just as i do. WHAT TO DO???

Lorena, please email me (I posted the wrong address earlier)

killnme2004-mb@yahoo.com

I have a safer place for you to post.

what to do? I can feel your pain ... please please follow faithfull follower ... she'll guide you ...
I'm an example of what's going to happen if you don't have strong boundaries ...

Why do I feel like everyone here is attacking me. I said that I was telling my story for lorena1 to draw whatever conclusions that she wanted. I in no way stated that she should tell her fiance to do what mine did. When I first posted on this website, no one offered me any guidance except to go on another board and to look at some basic concepts. Wow!! Now that I am expressing my opinions, everyone wants to pay attention now.

I am not saying that my way is the only way, the best way or the wrong way. I am only saying that this is the choice that I made and I wanted some support and how to deal with things better. I was hoping for open mindedness and compassion. Not disinterest and dismissal.

I am a Christian, and try to live the way that I think God would want me to. How can I, as a Christian, ask my fiance to ignore and disown a part of himself. How can I ask this man to treat one of God's creations as if it were trash that could be disregarded, dismissed, and discarded as if it was so much crap! I live my life by the saying "do unto others as you would have them do unto you". I pray to God that if the roles were reversed and I was the one who made a mistake and sincerely wanted forgiveness, my man would not punish me by telling me that I have to give up my own flesh and blood. But that is just how I feel. No matter how one of God's special miracles (a baby) came into this world, I would do everything in my nature to accept the situation.

Some may be right about not being there for the birth, but how can some people say to pretend like the baby doesn't even exist!!

My fiance and I are trying the minimal contact route because WE have mutually chosen to involve the OC in our lives. Maybe NC is what's best for some, but it seems as if Lorena1 is leaning towards accepting the baby into her life.

I was just extending an invitation for Lorena1 to communicate with me and I could share my experiences with her.

I was looking for advice on how to make my future marriage better and some coping skills that I could utilize. All I seem to have gotten is condemnation and scorn.

Actually angel, no one is attacking you. We are trying to find out why you are giving lorena advice that goes against the very grain of what marriage and commitment mean. We have all BTDT and have the scars to prove it. I gave you advice when you came on asking IF you should marry him. I said "no, I wouldn't open myself up to the hurt of a lifetime with someone that has proven they cannot be trusted". You got defensive. If you did not want marriage building advice, then don't ask it on a marriage building site. You have an escape clause that those of us who were married with COM didn't have. You can walk away and never look back. Divorced or not, we are tied to our husbands because of our children.

BTW, no one is saying to throw a child away like trash. We are talking about protecting a marriage from the constant attack of the OW. Lorena's fiance did not get a choice in continuing the pregnancy and he does not have any obligation to that child beyond financial. If you EVER had to deal with an OW like the one who gave birth to my H's son, you would get it. READ the stories on this board. Then you will see what many of us are dealing with. NO CONTACT is nothing to be ashamed of if it is the best choice for everyone, including the OC.

You will also find very few people on any of these forums that will support someone marrying a known cheater. It is different from recovering an existing marriage. You see even if you "feel" married you are not married, not in the eyes of the law nor in the eyes of God. That commitment is a legally binding one. Engaged or living together is not.

To reiterate, I NEVER asked IF I should marry my fiance or not. I was just dealing with some difficult things at the moment, and was wondering if now would be the right timing for a marriage. I NEVER said that i didn't want to marry him. And as far as that comment about being just engaged or living together; For the record, I never shacked up with my boyfriend. I remained chaste, like God intended, and didn't initiate in premarital sex. I committed myself to this man in my heart because I knew that the timing wasn't right for a marriage and didn't see the need to pressure my man or myself into something that we both weren't financially ready for. Just because we aren't legally married doesn't mean that I don't hurt just as much as a married woman. It doesn't mean that I love my fiance any less because we didn't sign on a dotted line. When I got with my fiance I was a virgin. I hold the sacrament of marriage high esteem and would never engage in premarital sex. Can you wonderful married women say the same. How dare you imply that just because we arent legally married yet, or relationship isn't worth salvaging! This is ridiculous. I know that most on this board have BTDT, so I was hoping they could give me a heads up and advise me as to how I should handle things. I guess i expected too much from people who still seem to hold alot of bitterness in their hearts.

Angel, just calm down. Everyone who has posted to you has been giving you advice. You just don’t like the advice. You clearly are looking for someone to validate your staying with your fiancé and, given the circumstances you’ve shared here and what we KNOW & have EXPERIENCED, these situations usually only turn out costing the betrayed extreme pain & turmoil. If that’s what you’re up for...fine. The folks here are just trying to tell you, from history & experience, what is PROBABLE for your future if you go into a marriage with your man, given the FACT that he has already done the most heinous acts you can bestow upon the person you love...cheat AND have a child with the one he cheated with. Please take some time and READ the stories here. Don’t fool yourself into thinking, that since *he’s already done the unthinkable* that he can’t possibly hurt you any worse. Total fairytale if this is the case because now that he has another woman in his circle, it can & probably will happen again. Don’t underestimate the power of a desperate woman with the child of a weak man hon. They USE THEIR CHILDREN TO INCITE GUILT IN THESE MEN, and if these men are not learned to these ways and dedicated to cutting off ties with these women, IT WILL HAPPEN AGAIN. Only trying to tell ya hon.

And I didn’t see any attacks...except the tone of your subsequent posts after reading that your actions are not going to be validated. Truly not fair. It’s also not fair for you to claim that any member here has bitterness in their hearts simply because you don’t like the advice given to you. You came here for..........? what? Someone to agree with what you’re doing? Now, I don’t care if you choose to marry this man...heck, I hope it works out and he never hurts you again. But all were trying to say to you is, the probability of this is very slim.

Good luck to you hon.

4ever

That is really unnecessary when people are trying to help you and tell you the TRUTH. The truth is your fiance does not hold to the same standard you do. The truth is you can say you are as commited but it is not the same. Yes, it hurts. I never said it didn't. You are asking to walk down a LIFETIME path of hurt and dealing with an OW. Your fiance cheated on you even before you married him. Doesn't that show you he does not hold the same values as you?

Sometimes you have to hear the hard, cold truth and it cannot always be glossed over to make it easier to hear. Your story is encouraging another engaged woman to possibly make the worst mistake of her life.

i have to ask you, angel, why are you so defensive? There must be something below the surface bothering you to come here and look for support. If you read Dr. Harley's concepts, if you listen to someone like Dr. Laura you will hear the same thing I am telling you. Don't marry him.

Now since you are dead set on marrying this man. You need to learn (both of you) the MB concepts to protect your future marriage from further betrayal. I would strongly suggest counseling with Steve Harley. Maybe even a MB weekend. Get the concepts down.

Does this mean you are no longer chaste? No longer a virgin? Either way I hope that man of yours has been tested for STD's.

Yes, we have both been tested, and we are both 100% clear. By the way, I am 29 years old in case you were wondering.

As far as me coming to this website, I was just looking for a little support. I thought that's what these kinds of websites were about. I have made the decision to stay with my man. There is no doubt that I want to marry him. I came here looking for ways to strengthen my relationship even further and perhaps along the way, meet some people who could give me some guidance. (Not as to whether or not I should stay, but what to do once I have made the decision to stay).

Don't get my mood swings that I have about my fiance confuse with lack of love. Just because you get angry with or lose your temper with a loved one, does it mean that you no longer love them? Yes, sometimes I have my moments, but you can't tell me that not one of you have had mood swings or moments of doubt during your relationship. That is human nature. But the key is that I believe the positives in my relationship outweigh the negatives. I am happy more times than I am sad.

I am not looking for validation, I am looking for guidance. These are two different things. Validation is looking for proof or confirmation of something. I am not looking for proof that what I am doing is right, nor do I seek confirmation that my choice is the right one. I am looking for guidance to help navigate me through my future marriage with the man I love.

I will state again, I have already made the conscious choice to stand by man and uplift him the way a partner should. He has made the same promise to me. And for almost 2 years, he has made good on that promise. So have I.

And how does this concept of No Contact work. In the real world, or in most situations, the same woman who tried to trap your man by getting pregnant, will not go quietly into the darkness. Even if you choose to ignore her and the baby, she will not ignore you. There will be phone calls, text messages, court hearings, and all sorts of other tactics that she will use to make her presence known. Don't think for one moment that the man won't wonder what his child is doing at 2, 5, 12 years old. What activities the child likes. Does the child look like him? It is basic human nature to be curious.

I chose to allow my fiance to remain in contact with the child because I thought it was the best thing for the child, and for my fiance. I don't want him to look back years later, and resent me for keeping him away from his biological child. If the OW becomes too much of a burden, to the point that it affects the well being of the child, then we have mutually agreed to walk away. But at least we will know that we tried our best. And we will have proof to show the child when she comes to her father and asks him why he wasn't a part of her life. We will be able to say that we tried, look at these pictures of us together. It was your mother that thought it would be a good idea to keep her father away.

"When you learn to forgive someone who has really hurt you and forget the wound that they have caused, then you truly love that person."

Thunderstorm, I am in the process of doing just that. Why does it seem that everyone is begrudging me this?

Is it because we are not married. My relationship is not important enough to work on because we are not married yet?

I don't know about everyone else, but I wouldn't want my husband to stay with me out of guilt, duty or some obligation to the children. It sounds like the other woman, trying to guilt trip the man into leaving his wife out of duty or obligation to her child. I want a man to stay with me out of love and devotion. If I have to give him an ultimatum, the baby or me, then he doesn't really want to be with me. I never gave my fiance an ultimatum. He is willing to give up all contact with his child for the sake of our relationship, all without me prompting him to do it. That is true love. To willingly make a sacrifice for the happiness of another.

I COULD NOT let him do this. I feel that I would be held accountable by God for taking my anger out on an innocent child.

In my opinion, when you forbid a man from doing something,(ex. You are not allowed to have any contact with the OW or OC), you are setting yourself up for disappointment and lies. Or at least doubt. Do you want to always be wondering if your husband is out sneaking to see his baby, or what he is doing when he doesn't answer the cell??

We are completely open and honest with each other. No, I don't trust him completely, but should you place that much trust in man?

When he leaves out to see the baby, I am always with him. When he has the baby, I am always there. He feels that he can be open and honest with me. He doesn't feel like he has to hide his true feelings for his child in order to placate me.

We are a team. The OW knows this and feels threatened by this. Yes, she plays her childish little games. But my fiance and I can give each other that look that old friends have for each other and laugh at her antics.

We he falls short, I am there to catch him, when I am tired, he is there for me to lean on. When he is weak, I am strong for the both of us, and vice versa. It is still a struggle, but I would rather struggle with him than without him. Can I say the same for you??

It's called POJA (policy of joint agreement). It is not about forbidding anyone anything. It's about two GROWNUPS sitting down and discussing an issue and both coming to a conclusion that BOTH can be on board with.

Might I suggest you READ all of this site if you really want to save your relationship? It saved mine.

POJA is on here.

There is also a book - Surviving an Affair, that is VERY good for both the betrayed and the wayward.

And also, you MAY have the impression that everyone her advocates NC for the OC, when that is not the case.

We have custody of our OCs. We have always had contact with them...it is contact with the OW - get this?...THE OTHER WOMAN that MUST be minimized in order for the two of you to even have one iota of hope.

I couldn't stop my H from having contact any easier than I can stop my H from having an affair. You sound like the OW when you talk like that. Like Kimmy said it is called POJA. I could choose to walk away if he continued contact with OW. I have no problem with contact with OC, in fact I advocated for it. It is my husband that doesn't want contact. The BW's that told their FWH's that they could not tolerate C gave them a choice. The H chose the marriage. It is silly to think one human can control another.

I feel for you, angel. I am sorry you feel defensive and attacked with us. I am sorry that you saved yourself for a man that did not value that special gift enough to stay faithful to you. That specialness being gone has to hurt pretty badly.

Ok, you have decided to work it out. Great. Geat reading. Get counseling with Steve Harley. LEARN how to have a great marriage. Your defensiveness and critisicsm of the BW's on here is not very Christ like, is it? Who are YOU to tell us what we feel? I will tell you yet again, I KNOW the betrayal hurt you. Of course it did. But you are not married. This is not even an OC. It will be your step child when you marry, but this child came before your marriage. My step son came during my marriage and after my COM. Like it or not there is a difference. The sex you have with your fiance is sin. The Bible says so. I am not critiscizing your for your choice. I am just pointing out the truth.