RedBerries,

If you have time, go find TooMuchTooSoon and my threads and read them. He and I started working Plan A around the same time.

His FWW didn't ever leave the house, but was so close.

Mine left the house immediately and hasn't been back once.

However, I worked Plan A and can tell you that I did a great job.

Because I took to heart that the changes I made in myself were because they were changes I wanted to make. I took a stand that I was fighting for my M and willing to do anything it took to know I did my best.

I had to learn that there would be NO EXPECTATIONS, even though I still got hurt, continually. My WH COMPLETELY stopped meeting ANY EN for me on 5-14-07. But I kept plugging along, finding ways to meet those needs that I could.

So read up on those threads and others and see what thoughts come up for you?

Have you read the Carrot and Stick of Plan A

Take the EN questionnaire - answering as you think your WH would respond. Later, you can do the questionnaire a second time, answering as yourself.


*link* to EN questionnaire



What are his top 3 ENs?





If one of his top 3 ENs is admiration - asking him for his help would make more sense.

Writing to him is probably a good idea. Wait to write the notes/letters until after you've done some thinking/studying about his ENs.

Pep

YES, YES, YES

I brought my WH gifts at work, I called him just to talk to him and would keep him on the phone as long as possible. I would stop in at work and bring him coffee. I would think of things that I knew he liked that OW couldn't possibly know.

For Hanukkah, I made latkes and brought him some candy that only I knew was his favorite and that his mom used to get him all the time. I didn't think it really impacted him, but a few weeks later when I dropped in on him at work I noticed that there was another can of this candy - ONLY BIGGER. I laughed to myself.

What Mimi taught me was HEAD UP, CHEST OUT. I am HIS WIFE and I will find the courage to be HIS WIFE and do things that a wife can do. Like dropping in at work.

One of my very favorite things was showing up at his game and she was there. I felt so empowered.

Ok, enough for this....

Mimi told me, this is YOUR PLAN. YOU DO what you WANT. You have to have no expectations and not count on anything back. You aren't doing this for HIM. You are doing it for YOU....

I think there comes a point where plan A is self abuse.

Plan A is to show changes to the wayward.

What was RB's failures as a wife that she needs to correct or improve on to get him to come back? Was she not an attentive wife? Did she not bring him his favorite coffee when they were married?

I think there comes a point where plan A becomes WS Doormat plan.

They have no kids. She hasn't been a bad wife, unless she's not telling us something.

I say she continue with Plan B and stop the self torture.

You see, you'll take him his coffee. He'll say, "thanks" and carry on with his day and not care.

I think it would be different if he was in the house or kids were involved but a plan B is called for, IMHO.

SH is the expert so perhaps he can be consulted.

Thank you all for your advice. We actually already did the EN test, his top ENs are Affection, Honesty/Openness, Admiration, Conversation, and Recreation.

So, I will really read up on Affection in HNHN. I will bring him a coffee to work today while I am out. I will just leave it with the front desk though, he will know it is from me. I will also start sending him emails/leaving notes on his car full of honesty.

I am going to go to my other appointment now, thanks for your input. Queenie, I will read those threads that you talked about. I have read about the carrot and the stick.

I agree.

My observation has been that when an emotional BS goes to Plan B prematurely, before the BS is ready, it usually becomes a complete failure, and the BS makes more contact with the WS.

This is important to consider:

D-Day: 4/18/08

Not yet one month .... she has some heart/mind issues to allign before SHE is ready for Plan B. Not to mention that Plan B should be PLANNED out in advance. She has not done this yet.

She'll know when it's time. She's very smart and a fast learner.

Pep

POM,

I completely understand and agree with what you are saying to a point. You are right, Plan A is not about self abuse and if RB can truly look herself in the mirror and see that she was a good wife all along, then I'm all for Plan B.

But she keeps waffling? Pom, would you agree that once in Plan B, you stay in Plan B? It was said over and over again that Plan B was to happen when heart and mind were in sync and I am wondering if that's true.

If she has a Plan A left in her, and it's focused on accomplishing those things SHE WANTS to accomplish, what could be the harm. If she is walking through it with us on here, asking questions and checking in to make sure she isn't being abused, what could it hurt. '

It might not change the outcome, but maybe it will settle her heart.

RB,

The call is yours to make on when to go to Plan B, but Plan A will be very painful.

You will give affection and get none in return. You will be thristy for it. You'll want to see it.

He'll continue to treat you like crap.

Yes, it hasn't been that long. I understand that.

I just remember how things went for me and how I messed things up because my emotions were raw.

Best of luck to you and we'll be here to cheer you on. Just remember that you will be subjecting yourself to abuse. It may not be physical, but it is self imposed and it is going to come from him as well with the words he uses and the way he treats you and the way he'll flaunt his affair.

So be nice to his face, but be prepared with the big hammer (legal stuff) to bring down on him.

I've asked a friend to throw in her two cents for you after she went through a similar situation as you.

I hope she reads about your situation and posts to you.

She is young and was married a relatively short while and has no kids.

She's now officially divorced and has healed a lot since her WH left.

She's still in the process of healing, but she can share her experience with you.

Yes, it's true, there will be pain. WH will mostly be an [censored] & that will hurt. Accept that up front.

It is also true there will be rewarding insights and gains of self respect. When you act with honor and love, you have net gains - every time.

Pep

I absolutely agree with this and Pom's. And one more reason, because when everything is said and done, you can live with yourself knowing you did EVERYTHING you could to save your M.

I have learned so much about myself and am someone who can look at myself in the mirror and KNOW that G-d is creating someone special today. The pain was horrendous, but the rewards are earned.

Wow, thank you all for your support, and advice.

I do not want to be a doormat. I do know that me being a good wife to him and him not appreciating it and making me feel worse will hurt. It is hard to know what the right thing to do is...should I plan a? plan b? Or just give up and allow the D to come? I don't know.

It does, in some ways, empower ME to know that despite all of his BS, I am still capable of love. I go back and forth between the desperate, "don't leave me" love, and the confident, "I love you because I am CHOOSING to love you, and when I no longer choose to, I will stop" kind of love.

Each time he hurts me, and I come here and read, and think, and pray, it seems to get easier for me to have the self-confident love...the love that is choosing to love him because he is broken, and probably very scared, and lonely (most of his real friends do not approve and are distancing themselves). It helps to realize that he is hurting me because he is hurting inside.

I am getting there, I feel it...I don't want to be a doormat. I am getting self-confident in the fact that each day, I am getting better, and stronger...sometimes it feels like one step forward, two steps back...but I do believe I am growing and learning from this, and becoming a better person.

I do not want this to break me. I do not want to be bitter and mean. I do want to be able to love people even though they hurt me. I know there is a fine line there, and I need to be careful. So if it looks like I am crossing the line, or making bad choices, please let me know.

I dropped off a venti caramel frappucino to WH at work today...it is his favorite. I left with the front desk, who delivered it after I left. Maybe he appreciated it, and maybe he didn't. But I felt good for doing it, for me. Like God was looking down, and was proud of me for loving someone who, frankly, I do not want to love.

So...maybe this is me not wanting to let go...but I hope it is me growing and getting stronger.

both ... X2

Pep

Well, I am in a different place now that I was a few days ago (what a roller coaster...).

I have been trying to Plan A with my WH. I brought him Starbucks to his work a few days ago, I have been emailing him messages which try to meet his ENs, and I bought him a DVD he really wanted, and a music book and FIL,SIL (not that he will read it, lol) from Amazon.com, they shoudl be coming to his work tomorrow. I think that will be my "parting gift" to him.

On Saturday, he came and got more of his stuff (there is alot still here), and we talked about bills and stuff, and he told me the last three days before he left for good were really great (the days where I Plan A'd my butt off, mostly for me, as I had a feeling this would be the last time for a long time that we would be together as a couple...great SF, affection, recreation, etc etc etc). "Why couldn't our M have been like that more often?" he asked. I told him I wanted to make the rest of our days like that. He didn't really say anything.

So he got his stuff, and asked if he could give me a hug. Maybe out of pity, who knows. He says he is not "living" with OW, he just sleeps at her house every night and has his stuff there (??? FOGBABBLE...). He told his friend on the phone that there is "less than 2% chance he will ever want to be with me again" (FOGBABBLE). Also, he doesn't love the OW, he is just having fun. He doesn't like that M means only being with one person. (I guess he wants to whore around like some hot stud). Our friend said that my WH was toying with the idea of getting a gf on the side for years (oh, he would try to convince me to let him, of course), and asked him what he thought about it...years ago.

So maybe this A was a long time coming. I don't know. Maybe he just is not ready to be in a committed M, where you only be with ONE person. My WH has alot of issues...he is very narcissistic, egotistical, loves being the center of attention, thinks he is always right...and I have taken the brunt of that for many years. It really got me down after awhile. Our friend said that a lot of people thought my WH was emotionally abusive towards me from the things he would say and do in front of them. Hooray for knowing that everyone thinks you are a door mat.

I have really been thinking a lot about all of this. Do I love him still? Yes. Do I like him? Not so much, right now. I am to the point where I know I do not need him. I deserve better. I can make it on my own. I can find a better H, who treats me like a queen. If he wants to be with me, we are in for a looong recovery.

I am quickly losing all of my love units for WH. I am still in withdrawal from not seeing him everyday, and I miss him, but I am getting angrier and angrier about the crap I endured for our M- my commitment to him and to God. And what was all that enduring for? So he could go have an A an toss me aside like garbage. I SOO do not deserve that!

Anyway, as soon as I get my plan in order, I am going to Plan B. We have dentist appointments at the same time on May 14 that I am going to try to get changed (my appointment). If I can, I will Plan B as soon as I can. If I cannot get it changed, I will wait until after the appointment (I made the appointment back in February...there is a four month wait to go there...and if he D's me, it goes into effect in three months time, so I want to get to the dentist before I lose my insurance...).

I know he is making the biggest mistake of his life. I was a committed wife, who stuck by my WH's side through a lot of junk. I take my vows seriously, but I cannot do this any longer. If there is ANY hope that I will ever want to be with him again, I need to get away from him. I feel that I did everything I could do to show him how great our M could be. IF he decides to end the A, institute NC, and we take extraordinary precautions, then I will continue to try to save the M.

But if single life/swinging/friends with benefits/whatever is truly what he wants (or thinks he wants) then he can have that life. I want no part of it.

Thanks all for your support.

On a happier note, I started taking Wellbutrin today to help me cope with all of this junk, and also started a yoga class. I have no idea yoga would kick my butt that badly! I am also exercising five x a week, getting sexy, and reading a lot of books to help me with my low self esteem.

RB,

Um. Seriously. What are you wanting to save this marriage for?

Do you want to be 40 with 3 young kids and find out that your H has been with a few women on the side while you took care of the house?

He's not going to change his stripes.

He's a player and will likely be a serial adulterer. Staying with him means you will condemn yourself to a life of heartache after heartache as you learn about OW2, 3, 4, and 5.

Do you really want that? Or do you want a man who will treat his wife like Christ treats his church?

I'm not a holy roller, but it's something to chew on.

I think the best thing you can do for yourself is kiss this loser goodbye and then get into therapy and find out why you're attracted to jerks like this and then go into the world and date other men who are nothing like him.

Sorry to be a downer, but a serial cheater will break your heart over and over again.

Have some more self esteem than that.

My mother was married to a man like that, who happens to be my own dad. I love my dad very much, but the man can't be alone for more than a day before he's rolling around with another woman. He had several women in his marriage and was good for about 18 years and then flipped out at mid life and took a gian crap on our family by wanting to run around with women.

Don't condemn yourself to that kind of pain.

I know these words won't likely sink in and you'll still have that hopeless idea that you can change him with your love. That only works in hollywood and romance novels, not in real life.

Please. Don't do this to yourself.