I think one of the wisest things I've ever read here at MB is that, no matter how much you want something (or someone), if it is not in your control, you have to let go. Hope for it, sure, but let go. Learn how to stop making whether you attain that goal your only measure of success or happiness.

Because if you pin all your hopes on what someone else does, you are doomed to fail. I call it stepping back, or detaching. Pros and cons. List of gratefulness. Whatever. It's all about realigning your mind to see the bigger picture. You're alive. You're healthy. You didn't just lose everything - and everyone - in an earthquake or tsunami. You have enough food to eat, a job, a home, a car, a pet?, family members who love you, a God who's looking after you...what else can you come up with?

This is why I recommend volunteering to everyone. Everyone. Even if you've only got 2 hours a month, one Saturday afternoon a month, whatever, that one little piece of helping make someone else's life a little better is HUGE. In terms of how you feel about yourself and your problems.

Once you reach the point where you can say, 'man, I really want her to love me again, but you know what? I'll survive if she doesn't.' - that's where you can start making the right decisions for you and for winning her back. Get out of the desperation mode, where every action you take is bent on getting her to want you again. Because that way leads to madness.

You're doing really good, though. Keep it up. I would caution, however, to reconsider all you're doing for her. She is obviously filled with guilt and self-hatred. When the partner goes overboard on trying to be nice to that person who is hating herself for what she did (and subconsciously she most likely is), it only makes her hate herself more. She doesn't deserve for you to be so nice to her, you know? And that can cause them to leave or self-destruct just to get out of the guilt situation. So be careful that you're not doing more than you normally would in your relationship.

I agree with Cat. Yesterday I reached that point and no matter what happens from here, I have given it my all and I will survive this and I'll be able to be strong for DS too. Prior to this I was in full desperation mode. I did everything 150% to change things, to improve ME, but in the end H still admits to only giving me 50% effort towards recovery and still thinks constantly of OW. It's been 5 months of effort with me busting my a$$ but in the end it takes more than one to repair damage to a M and until he can choose which woman he wants in his life..I must go on for me.
This is a feeling of freedom. I recommend it to anyone! Until now I felt I was losing my mind but now it's in his ballpark if he wants our M to work it's up to him now.

Hey Dino! Keep hanging in there!! I know it is frustrating not to see things turning around more quickly now that the light switch has gone on for you but not your wife, but don't let your frustration get the best of you.

It sounds like you are continuing to do a lot of good things. I think there's probably a pack of women on this board who's husbands don't lift a finger who'd be drooling over you ... so if worse comes to worse ... LOL! Question though, what are YOUR wife's top emotional needs? You've got the domestic support one covered and I would guess you must be in good shape if you're in the Army so physical attractiveness shouldn't be an issue (unless you dress funny ... hee, hee!). But maybe other areas are more important to her?

If relationship talk is leading to her feeling stressed and dredging up bad memories, don't bring it up for now. Concentrate on meeting her top emotional needs only!! When she's ready to talk about it, if she needs to talk about it, she'll bring it up. Talking about it isn't going to heal it. You know you hurt her back then so unless there is some critical information you still need, I don't see how it can be productive to dialog about it. Dialog about your present and your future, not the past. Honestly, I don't like to talk about "us" that much with my husband. What I do appreciate is being able to talk to him about what is going on in other areas of my life in a much more honest way than I feel safe doing with other people. Or talking about plans for a trip or a party. Or just commenting on how dumb our local politicians are.

I almost want to suggest that you act from the assumption that you will be happy together in the future, once you get past this episode. You might be stirring up her doubts by trying to get reassurance from her that she forgives you or is feeling better. When she says "maybe I'll be better after ..." how do you respond?

You're probably right that setting milestones for this situation might not be the best method to get where you want to go. In a way, you're falling into the same trap you're worried your wife is in of thinking things will be better after X happens. So in your next post, tell me what's beautiful in your life and stay there ... meditate on it if you will I'm waiting for you to master that so you can help me with some tips!!

I'm working on that cat,

I think I've finally reached the point that I can say that I'll be ok if we part. I've said that to her already. I couldn't say that 4 months ago, not even lying. And I think about the things I do for her and try to gauge whether I'd be doing them if we start to get better and the answer right now is YES. I finally feel like I can say that I feel good about what I'm doing. Not that I didn't do things before, I did things because I felt forced. Now I actually enjoy doing these things, I enjoy them because I see how much of a difference they make, because I make her feel good.

I don't think I'm putting too much pressure on her, not doing more than she's done for me in the past. I think about those things alot. Most of what I do is to finally give her some support, not my strongest suit in the past. Now she needs it more than ever, I just make sure that she doesn't have to deal with anything on the homefront so she can concentrate on dealing with the job and stress of upcoming retirement. I made a promise to myself that whatever I'm doing now, I'll continue from now on. If we beging to repair our relationship, I don't want her to have a single doubt about me returning to my old ways.

You know, talking with you guys really makes me feel good because the things you advise me to do, I've thought of myself at one time or another. Kind of reinforces that fact that I may be on the right track.

With that said, it doesn't make anything hurt any less, I guess it makes it easier to deal with though. I'm so much better than I was. I love her so much, I wish I had learned some of these things earlier, could have prevented alot of pain.

Thanks again cat, I'll keep posting

Funny you mention that, I was just looking at the emotional needs checklist and trying to figure hers out from all the things she's told me in the past. She isn't willing to look at the checklist yet, another one of those things I won't press.

She wants me to be her friend, support her with career and family and anything else. Openness and Honesty is another one of her tops. She says that is one of the things that really hurt us, because of may lack of support and her feeling like she couldn't depend on me as a friend, she couldn't be open and honest with me and because my lack of enthusiasm for what she had to say , it made her shut down. Obviously affection and sexual fulfillment aren't on the scope at the moment so those are on the backburner. Domestic support was another that I've mastered. Admiration is one that I think is on her list. She seems to mention alot about when her people or leadership praise her about her work, I was not so good at that in the past, I defintely make sure I have good things to say about those things now. Snug, I think I'm doing well with meeting the ENs she allows me to for the time being. In our situation, its kinda tough for me to fill needs that I'm shut out of.

As far as relationship talk goes, I avoid it at all costs, right now anyway. The talks we have had always grown out of my enquiring about something else and were not productive. Until she approaches me to have some serious talk about it, and she can talk without looking back, I don't think that will be a topic of any of our conversations. I just don't want all of this to fade away and leave us with unresolved issues that will blow up the next time we have a disagreement. That's my biggest concern. We seem to talk and laugh pretty freely. I'm pretty happy about that.

I know what you say about the milestone thing, I try not to put much stock into those since I've already been disappointed. I think I use it more to break up the time, more to just say "ok, we made it another month". I think she may rely on these "events" to assume she will get better. When she says these things, I don't say anything about it. I just keep reassuring her that everything will be ok. I tell her we'll get through it. I wish she'd ask for help but she's being stubborn. I'm trying to keep a positive spin on my outlook for things. It's hard to look ahead and see positive things when the present hurts so much. I really believe that she's planning the future with me. I like to believe that I know her well enough to make that assumption, but with all that's happened, I can't help but feel a little hesitant to "trust" my feelings about her. I wish I could just hang myself out there but this thing hurt too much, I have to provide a little protection for myself but at the same time, I need to have faith. Faith that she will do the right thing.

After finding out about the A and learning of all the dirty dishonest things that she did and said to me, I've lost some respect and trust in her. That in itself is a blow to me, it disappoints me to no end. I've always believed that I could trust her about anything, she's only human I found out. So I can't help but feel these stings of mistrust when I think about things. I mean, she did this terrible thing, what else is she really capable of? Could she really live with me for the rest of the year coasting along and suddenly run out the door when the time is right for her, all the while smiling and just keeping the peace until that time comes? Those are the kinds of terrible thoughts I battle with sometime. They don't consume me, but they cross my mind from time to time. Another one of my hurdles is the NC thing, the last time we had a drag out it was the topic that started it all. She says she won't contact him anymore but the doubts still dig at me, I would've never guessed that she would risk the amount of trouble she'd get into if she got caught but she did. Somehow the importance of talking with him outweighed the concern for her own safety and the safety of our family. She said she struggled with that everyday but could not stop it. He was the one whose mistakes caused all the trouble in the first place and essentially cost her, her career. Even with that, she felt it necessary to be concerned with his welfare enough to risk further harm to herself and our family. That is something that hurts to my core and I won't get over soon. I have to say though, if this dumba%$ hadn't screwed up with letting his wife find out, who knows if my wife would've ever come clean with this and we could be very well on a much worse place than we are now. For that, I am thankful, even thought it's kind of a sick way to look at it.

I'm doing better though Snug, alot better, no doubt from the help and encouragement I get from you and cat. I've been meaning to write down all the good things in my life right now, so I can actually visualize them on paper, so with your request, I'll put that on my next post.

thanks again

Dino

Thank you so much. I really need to model the things your doing and I'm going to try to focus on your posts while focusing on my WAW top needs at this time and do my best. Your a good role model for me right now and I hope I can mimic the good things I'm reading.

Thanks again.

So glad to hear you are feeling better and looking forward to reading your list Dino

I think I know exactly how your wife feels about wanting you to be a friend. I've said the very same thing to my husband. He's a pretty typical guy so maybe it has to do with the way most guys think about friendship. I notice that when he and his guy friends talk, it's pretty much about sports, movies, something dumb they've seen on youtube, or retelling some story from a past adventure, interspersed with a lot of trash talk and ribbing. Ok, sometimes they have serious talks if one is asking the other for advice on how to do something. And occasionally there will be some meaning of life talk. What he doesn't do with his friends and thus doesn't do well with me, is talk like me and my friends talk ... which is more about sharing what is going on in our lives and supporting each other. Once, I was sharing something about work and I actually saw his eyes sort of roll up out of boredom! OMG, I was *SO* mad. He knows this is a need for me and I can see him trying ... like he now makes an effort to ask me about my day or what's going on, but it still feels like he's just checking a box. I can't even really explain why, but even though I know he is asking me to give me an opportunity to talk to him and open up to him, I don't really share as much as I could. I'm not purposely holding back, but it just doesn't flow out. Maybe because I don't believe he's really truly interested. I know he's interested in being a good husband to me, but I just wish he was interested in what I actually have to say. Obviously this isn't a horrible tragedy of a problem and I do realize it's not a big deal in comparison, but if I could have that girlfriend-like support from him it would take our marriage to the next level. What do you think? Anything like you and your wife? Is it possible to change? Or should I just get used to it?

ez, do you have a thread going? Why don't you post a list too?

Snuggle yes I do: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2057320

Dino's helped me with a lot of good words of encouragement and whereas the only real thing I can offer him is to stay strong and he's doing that the best he can I believe.

Snuggle

You know, I know exactly what she means about being a friend and I'm trying my best. She will be the only one to know if I'm doing it how she likes it. She's always been the type to have more male friends anyway, she thinks girls have too much drama. To tell you the truth, I'm still a little fuzzy about what eaxctly she needs from me as a friend. Basically I just want her to know that she can talk to me about anything without feeling judged and that I'm interested and that I'll support her with anything. That's all I can do really. I will ask her one day, when she's ready to talk, how exactly this guy fulfilled that need of a friend. I've always told her that guys will be the best friends in the world, especially to a good lookin woman, they'll bend over backward and tell you anything you want to hear. Most will stay in that zone as long as you keep the door shut, if you crack that door just a little bit, they will barge right in, and that's what happened to her.

Anyway, I almost got off track. As for your hubby, give him a chance. If he is anything like me, just asking you about your day and listening is a big step. He dang sure shouldn't be rolling his eyes but he is trying. If he's like me and he begins to see just how much it means to you, he'll get even better. Try telling him something that's really private to you, tell him noone but he knows, see how he reacts. Tell him you told him because you're starting to feel like you can do that again, he'll feel really good, i think. I know I would. You know Snug, I would do anything to be in that type of a relationship with my wife again, that's what I'm striving for. Whenever she gets happy or sad or mad, I want to be the first person she thinks about calling. I'm starting to tear up as I'm writing this because I want it so much. I miss being her friend, I miss her being mine. Men can change, they will never think like a girlfriend, but it doesn't mean they don't care as much as one. Guys still have that macho thing to deal with you know. I miss my wife Snuggle, I miss her so much. I'm getting pretty emotional right now so I better stop. I'll post my "good stuff" list later today.

Snuggle

So my list of positives:

First and foremost, my kids love me
we're all healthy
our families at home are healthy
we're all still together
we're going back to the states in 6 months
we're going to Hawaii in August, together (can't wait)
her retirement will be good for her
I'm a much better person that I was 5 months ago
I'm an awesome dad
my school work is going well
I'm in better shape (running more)
she hugs me
she kissed me good bye this morning (cheek)
we actually talk
we play tennis
we spent saturday together and had lunch (before she got called to work)
she's been touching me when we go to bed
we talk of the future, together
I'm not depressed as much
I'm treating her better
she's treating me better
the kids are happy
my job is good
softball is starting
going to Germany next weekend for daughters softball tourney (the whole family)

There's much more though, I know. I hate to feel so glum sometimes. I know things aren't as bad as I make them out to be, but there is still something missing. When you've spent this many years together, even when things aren't going perfect, you still share your joys and pains. I think we're headed in the right direction, I think. But right now, when I get excited about something, or I get sad about something, I have noone to turn to. I was so lonely while she was gone for 8 months, then she came home and this happened. This month will be a year ago when she left for her deployment, the last time I saw her before she left was in germany at the same tourney we're going to next week, she left to the desert from germany and me and the kids came home. So even though all this stuff is only really a little over 5 months old, I've been lonely for a year.

I concentrated on the kids while she was gone to stay busy, but at bed time I would get so lonely. It's still the same now and she's home. Not so bad these last few days, I'm grateful. I hope I'm not bringing you down, I'm just thinking out loud. Wife is upsatirs sleeping because she went to work at 0300 this morning and didn't get home till about 5 this afternoon. It's about 9:45 at night and I'm going to lay down on the couch, I don't want to disturb her sleep, I know the last 5 days have been hell on her. I have a lot to be thankful for Snuggle.

I'll be ok without my wife, I know that, but I don't want to be ok with it, not until she gone and doesn't come back. I'm in a good place right now, I'm trying to take notes to remember how to keep my mind in the same frame. Time heals everything, bad thoughts still come but further apart and not so intense. I still haven't got that meditation thing down, I'm still trying though. Wouldn't it be nice to never have a bad thought again, to never be hurt again? You could probably make yourself like that if you wanted to, but you'd never love anyone again. You can't love someone and not get hurt, it happens, maybe not purposely, but we're all human and we make mistakes. But we can also forgive, them and ourselves.

Wow, when I get on a roll I can keep going. If I knew how to type better you guys would be in trouble. Anyway, theres my list. It's a good list. Theres alot of positve things in my life and I need to concentrate on them, I know. But there is still something missing. I just need to get better at handling that and I am. We'll see how the next week goes, this one has been pretty dang good so far.

ciao

Last night was a good night
After laying on the couch awhile, I went up to bed. Wife was still sleeping. I was woken by her when she climbed over to lay her head on my chest. She was actually touching me with her hands and hugging and squeezing me. She had the alarm set for 0230, when it went off, she got up, got half dressed and layed back down with me, on my chest again. When she got up to finally go downstairs, she gave me a kiss on the cheek and she pinched me. Pinching is one of those "things" we have. You know, the little sign, one of our "you're so cute" signals. I'm so happy right now, what a good way to start the day. I just figured I'd share this since I've been on the positive subject the last couple of posts.

ciao

That's so great Dino! That says to me that she still loves you for sure. Wonderful list as well. You have so much to be thankful for, lucky you

I am unsure about one thing you said though. You said that you can't love someone and not get hurt. That if you could get to the point where you didn't have bad thoughts/couldn't be hurt again, that you wouldn't ever love anyone. My feeling is that hurt and anger aren't a part of love, but of our own egos. The hurt we feel comes from what we think the other person's actions or words say about us (i.e. you're not good enough, you're a fool, you're unlovable). Therefore the opposite would be true, if you could get rid of your bad thoughts, you'd be able to love at a deeper level because you wouldn't be blocked by the self-centeredness that results in angry feelings. Do you think you might be confusing mastering bad feelings with becoming a robot?

Anyway, I will try to break through my hesitancy and share more with my husband. I'll have to think of something that would fit the bill. I do give him a lot of credit for trying and I wish that would be all it takes to get me feeling close, but maybe I just need to fake it 'til I make it ...LOL!

Snuggle
I know what you're saying about the love/hurt thing. I guess what I'm trying to say is, when someone that you love makes a mistake, it hurts sometimes. You are right though, much of our hurt is the result of what we "attach" to the mistake. Now that I think about it, if you really know that something wasn't said or done out of malice, it really shouldn't hurt so bad. But then again, you can't help but think that a loved one wouldn't do certain things, they are supposed to protect you right? Basically what I'm saying is, to totally protect yourself from pain, you'd have to close youself off. To never provide the opportunity for pain. I never want to be like that. Hurt and anger aren't a part of love, but they do seem inseparable at times. And you are right about another thing, if you could control bad thoughts, the mistakes we make wouldn't be so life-altering. I was really bad at that. My wife would say the least little thing and I would morph it into something that would rock me to the core. Then after we talked about it, I'd realize that I was an idiot, but I developed a habit that kept making things worse. That's why we live and learn. I know if we get through this, our relationship is going to be even better than it ever was, and I'm excited about that.

As for hubby, do what makes you comfortable. Just like him, I may never be able to reach the level of intimacy she really wants in a friendship, not because I don't want to, but because I may not have the "capacity". I'm not really sure how to put it into words, but sometimes I think that "unattached" parties or "friends" have a certain outlet for people to "release" to. I hope to get to the point where she can be confident enough to tell me everything and anything. Like you said about your husband and his friends, our guy friends aren't connected to us near as deep as many women are connected to theirs. That doesn't mean we don't care as deeply for our friends, we just don't have that need. It's a hard thing to nail down.

Let me try an analogy, take my wifes "friend" for instance. While they were together over there, she shared alot of things with him, he was no doubt interested in everything she had to say. She probably felt that she could be herself with him, he had no preconceptions of what she shared with him, he made her feel comfortable. I'll bet that he didn't have that same relationship with any of his guy friends, why? because he doesn't need to, he didn't need that type of intimacy with my wife either but the chance that there could be something else made him act "interested". Did he care for her anymore than I do, no f*&#ng way. Would he ever sacrifice for her the things that I would, never. I'd be willing to bet that if he knew, absolutely, that he never had the chance for anything with her, he would've never became such an "intimate" friend. I'll be willing to bet that now they are separated, she'll just be a distant memory to him. Even if they do talk again, his only interest will be to flirt. I'd bet that if she started talking about intimate things over the phone to him, he'd be leaning back, rolling his eyes thinking, "ok, let's get back to the flirting". I'm not sure if I conveyed my idea like I wanted but I tried.

Snuggle, your husband loves you to death. He wants to be connected to you just as you do to him. I just don't know that we have that "thing". Don't get discouraged. You may need to force feed him. Does he ask you to share more with him? My wife is like you but in a much more magnified way, she feels she can't share anything at the moment. At least I think that's how she feels. You, on the other hand, are sharing with him, just not as deeply as you would like to. That's not a bad thing, he just needs some work. It comes from being a boy, we're not supposed to have feelings, that's what dad taught us. We're supposed to be strong, not let that girly stuff bother us. We learn better when we get older but some of it hangs on. Force feed him. Show him that you trust him with those things, he'll appreciate it.

Anyway, hope you have a good weekend. I hope to tell you more good stuff soon.

What a difference a day makes...

She's really mad at me right now. My son and I went to go pick her up from the hair dressers and when I got there she was in the chair talking on the phone. I asked her who she was talking to and she told me someone from her work. We were going to a bazaar to do some shopping and she got really mad that the first thing I did was ask her who she was talking to.

Anyway, we didn't talk much when we walked around. We left pretty early and when I got home. I apologized for getting her upset but I explained that I'm still pretty sensitive about the whole subject of her speakging to him on the phone. She said that she has already told me that she wouldn't talk to him anymore and that she didn't want to live feeling like she is going to be scrutinized for everything she does. She told me that she felt like junk after I asked her that. She said she is trying to regain our friendship and friends would've said hi first before anything and that I should've been happy to see her. She always manages to make me feel bad. I wasn't trying to ruin our day. It caught me off guard that she was on the phone, she said she saw me walk in and if she had been doing something wrong, she would've hung up before I got to her. I didn't yell or disrespect or anything like that. I didn't even talk about it until we got back home. I only wanted to tell her why I asked and that the whole subject is still a sore subject for me. She's still angry about our past, she said she knows exactly how I feel because I did it to her. She yells and once again says she doesn't know if she wants to live like this. I'm trying my best but seem to stumble into emptying my love bank of what little I manage to build up. I'm getting to where I don't want to bring anything up for fear of losing more units. I have been making a conscious effort not to even address relationship issues but to day I just kind of tripped into it. I don't like us feeling like this. We've been doing so well for the last week or so. I guess it's just another lesson I learned.

She just came down and asked me if I was hungry so I guess she isn't so mad anymore. I just want to kick myself in the head for not being more aware of what I'm doing. Not that I DJ'd but I sure LB'd without even realizing I was doing it. I guess that happens sometime. I feel good about how I handled it but I sure don't feel good about how she got angry and how little empathy she shows me about this whole thing. I think that's what hurt me the most. She really doesn't show me any remorse for what's happened. She says she does, but doesn't show it in the least. I guess it's her way of paying me back for my past. I know I shouldn't be expecting anything, but should she show me at least a little bit? It's hard not to get a little sour about that. Anyway, that's my day. A step back day I guess. Hope everyone is doing ok.

{{{{Dino}}}}

Buck up little camper

This is a little counter-intuitive, but I think her slight overreaction to your question shows remorse. Not in the traditional I'm-sorry-let-me-make-amends sense, but if you are just looking for a sign that she feels badly about what she did, there it is, almost in neon. That overreaction and anger are coming from the guilt she feels. I know you didn't mean to trigger it, but I'm pretty sure that as soon as you asked it, she went right back to the A and felt guilty as heck again. So much so that she couldn't just rationally tell herself that it was just an innocent question and not to overreact. Then she redirected the anger to you for making her feel guilty. It's human nature. I know I've done it. And then you feel even MORE guilty because you know now that you are just crabby and overreacting and that keeps you feeling mad a little longer. LOL! Man we humans are silly sometimes

Good job on not getting sucked in and DJing. But here's what I think you could have done better ... after you apologized, you went on to justify what you did which basically negates the apology because you are pretty much saying that you shouldn't have to be sorry and from personal experience, that is really annoying!! The time to explain is later when she's not mad. Waaaaaaaaaay later. Like the next day or week. When we're mad, we're not thinking as rationally, we're just emotional. So put that first. Give her space to calm down or if you think it helps, just say "that was a dumb thing for me to say, sorry" or something like that.

Don't be afraid Dino. If you hold things inside because you're scared to make the other person mad, you won't be able to create the intimacy you want in your marriage. That's what I did and it just made me feel alone and sometimes mad when I would think my husband is happy and thinks our marriage is great but he's really totally oblivious to how I feel. And that's how I ended up here ... LOL! When I changed my focus from not saying or doing the wrong thing to figuring out how to respond better when I do say or do something and get a reaction I'm not expecting, our communication really improved.

Anyway, hope she is fixing you something yummy to eat now

Thanks Snuggle

Man I feel like junk today. I really can't wait for the day that I can just wake up in the morning and not think about this stuff anymore. It's so draining on my soul. We're never going to get this time back. It hurts so much, I love her so much, I just can't shake these bad feelings. I don't care how it happens, I just want to get back to being "us" again. All this stuff we talk about on this forum is great and it's helped me immensely but I have yet to find anything that helps deal with the disappoinment and pain. I know it's all a perspective but if something hurts, it hurts.

Thank you for the pointers about apologies. I never thought of that before. I guess it does take away from the apology if you try to justify why you did that you did. And you know what, I still don't know if she was being truthful with me or not. I can't do anything about it but it digs at me still. She's always emphsizing how she refuses to lie to me anymore but at the same time, without her telling me where she stand at this point, I still believe she could be "withdrawing" and therefore capable of lying to me.

I'm really trying to improve our communication. I think she's just not ready to put any effort into improving us yet. I'm trying to steer clear of any trigger topics so we can be constructive when the time does come (if it comes). We seem to do just fine when we ignore the "elephant" in the room, but if we even glance in that direction, she gets really defensive. I'm really trying to maintain my boundary. The contact thing is my only thing right now, I just can't seem to shake it. I won't move from my position but I need to find the most productive way to address it. She doesn't do things that make me mad so it's not like I've been harboring anger or placating her to keep the peace. It all goes back to patience. I know she's hurting, I know she's feeling it too, she's just alot better than me at holding it all in. It's not a healthy thing, I would think that after realizing how that kind of behavior got us here, she would let that stuff out and not let it fester inside of her. I can't lie, it does get me a little annoyed when I think that all this stuff isn't affecting her as much as it is me. It bugs the crap out of me thinking that she doesn't have concern about how I feel. Poor me huh...lol.

Well, it's the end of another week, not exactly how I would've liked it to end but it could always be worse. She came down this morning and she said good morning. She went out for a run and came over so I could give her a kiss on the cheek before she left so I guess that's a good sign for the day. Next weekend we go to germany for three days. There's going to be alot of triggers there for me so wish me luck. They actually had their last physical contact 6 months ago there before coming home, it was their last stop on the return trip, I'm sure she'll be thinking about it too.

Thanks again Snuggle, we'll see how this week goes.

Stay strong Dino. You've got to be the strong one right now. It's not the fun job of the relationship, but somebody's got to do it right?

You're wife doesn't sound like she's feeling strong enough to support you, but from what you've said, she has been the strong one in the past for you. How do you think she did it back then?

Anyway, I have an overnight business trip tomorrow, but I'll be back Monday night. Hope you have a good start to your week!

I know, I'm trying to be strong. I think I'm doing ok, definitely not easy but it shouldn't be, right?

You're absolutely right. She has been strong for us in the past, probably the only reason I've been able to be this strong so far. I really don't know how she did it. I'd guess that any sane woman would've left me a long time ago. She let's me know that quite often. Says that was probably her biggest mistake, could've saved the both of us alot of pain. The truth hurts. I won't give up on her, I know she can see us together again, she just can't begin to let herself open up to me yet. I don't know if it's the pain of the past, the anger of what's happened to her, or the shame and guilt of what she did. Either way, she's closed off to me right now. I hope she can let me back in one day. We can have such a good life, why did I manage to screw it up so badly. How does someone look at such a good life and no recognize it? Why did I have to do the things I did? What was it that I expected to get out of acting the way I did? Now that I look back, I can't see it, I can't think of a single reason for doing the things I did. Hindsight 20/20.

Today was actually a pretty good day, we laughed and talked and made home made chicken soup. I had to go to a dinner for the bosses going away. It made me sad. Not that the boss is leaving, but because most of the other guys had their wives there. I felt really lonely. I miss my wife, I miss her dearly. I want to have her by my side again, I want to be by hers. Like I said, the day was pretty good. As good as they get nowadays. Even the good days are hollow though. We're not together. I don't have my wife. Until that day comes, there will be something missing. She's part of me, has been for 20 yrs. I can't think of a better reason to work hard.

Thanks Snuggle

Just keep improving yourself and learning, dino. I'm really impressed by how much you're helping other posters here; it shows you're learning and growing; she'll see it too, eventually. But she has to clear the fog first. Just continue to be the best thing to come home to, where she doesn't have to feel guilt all the time, and she'll see the truth.

it's good to hear from you again cat

I hope you're right about that, I'm really trying. I think I'm seeing some progress but it's hard work. If I told you I wasn't hurting much of the time I'd be lying. But thanks to you guys, I'm doing pretty well under the circumstances.

As for helping others, I think I owe a little something back. I was really lost before I came here. No matter what our outcome is, I now have an idea of how we got into this situation and know how to stay out of it from now on.

As for being the best thing to come home to, only she can answer that. I can honestly say that she won't find anyone who will love her or treat her better than I've been doing. The thing that bites me the most is that I could've been doing this all along. I'm not doing anything "unusual", I'm not making any backbreaking changes and I'm not doing anything I don't "want" to do. I guess sometimes it just takes a life altering event to finally blast you into reality. Essentially that's what happened. I had built a world of fantasy around what I wanted and what I thought was real and this event snapped me out of it. It brought everything into such amazing clarity that I'm just dumbfounded as to why I could never see this before. It's kind of like when I first started wearing glasses. I was so used to seeing the way I was, I never even thought that things could be better. I just assumed that this was it and I didn't mind. When I put on my first pair of glasses, I was like WHOA!! Look at all those details!! Since then I've had eye surgery but you get the idea.

I hope it's not too late cat. I think were moving along ok. I still fight with the bad thoughts but I'm becoming a better fighter. She shows flashes of clarity. I try not to get worked up about them. We're going to Germany this weekend, three days together, I can't wait.

thanks again cat