I couldn't do the search function, so I hope I can get some help here.

We are trying to help a friend who has been involved in an affair and is trying to get back with her husband. She hasn't told her husband the details, and is still lying about several things. She is done with OM1. Now she has had SF with OM2. He knew about the affair and helped them cover their tracks. He pushed her and she went along without any real fight. IT was a ONS, and she is very upset it happened. She is devastated and is in the process of getting help and trying to make things right. I am trying to get her to call the Harleys and tell her husband all.

I just found out that my FWW was tempted to have a second A the week before I confronted her and got out of her the "whole" truth(D-Day1.1). Nothing happened, but she did flirt in an e-mail, and he mentioned going out for coffee. She said she couldn't wait for them to go on a date, but he never responded to her. He still hasn't, months later, and I think it is because he is being loyal to his wife. I have had a feeling that she liked him too much for a long time, and we have talked about it. They never have gone out or anything, and I am quite sure of that. She told a friend that she mentioned to him that she had gone out to lunch a couple of times with OM way back last fall after her and OM were finished. She was really afraid that if I hadn't dragged the truth out of her when I did she may have had a second A. I think she thinks she might even have had SF again if the opportunity arose, but who would ever know.

I am going to confront her this coming week after she is off night shift, and I am VERY interested to see what she says. I asked her about this a couple of times last week, before I even had any idea of this new information. It seems like I have been able to tell what was going on in her mind ever since D-Day last year. It is uncanny.

My question is, is it common for WS to have a follow-up A after ending the first A? Is it common for it to be with someone who knew about the A? Are they seeking to keep the fantasy world going after ending it with OP1? She has said that she is afraid because now that she has done it once, it seems like doing it again would be a lot easier...like a barrier has been knocked down. It really scares her, because she knows the consequences. Addiction? Both her and her friend have said things about wanting to do something spontaneous and bad after years of being good and living the family life. They both have mentioned being caught up in the challenge and excitement. That was one of the attractions of the A. Whatever. I hope a FWS can give me some insight here.

I really need some help and advice here, because this is her only chance, and I want to stay married. She really has been trying to be a good wife, and I want to make it work this time. She just wants everything to be over, as is normal for early FWW. I think she knows I am going to bring something up this week, as I can just tell by looking at her. She said that once she confessed all about the OM, the motivation for the second fling died immediately.

If there are any praying types out there, we could use a few. Thanks.

This is an interesting post to me.
My WW had a 7 month affair ended by OM in Sept 2006. She immediately entered an affair with OM2...who knew OM1 and about the affair..and the afafir appears to be continuing.
WW left home in November 2006.

So I would also be interest in any comments on the situation.

Yes, I've seen this phenomenen over and over. As soon as one "soul mate" is out of the picture, another amazingly arrives to take their place.

It proves one of the Marriage Builder principles. The affair is not "real"..the adultery partner is not what the WS is in love with, it's the way the AP makes WS feel. When one AP is out of the picture, just find another, any will do, and let your obsession with them make you feel warm and fuzzy and desirable and worthwhile. Rinse and repeat.

When OP2 is out of the way, believe me , there will be OP3.

It's all part of the immaturity that reigns supreme in adultery. Someone MUST be found to fill that empty spot, because heaven forbid that WS should have to face up the fact that it is the emptiness in their own soul which is the problem.

Back around D-Day, when I discovered how many people might actually know about my FWW's A, I remember being concerned that some of those persons who found out would try to hook up with her, under the assumption that she was open to cheating on her H. Even though she assures me that she will never let herself get in that kind of situation again, I doubt that will stop being one of my concerns for a long while.

KIR, this is one reason why Dr Harley so emphasizes that certain steps be taken to make sure it is the BS who fills that empty spot. See, when a WS ends the affair, they go through withdrawal. Any person in withdrawal will try to avoid that pain, and a WS does it by replacing the OP to alleviate the pain.

Ideally, the replacement will be a positive choice, such as the BS, rather than another bad choice, like another OP. If the object is the BS, then the fog will eventually wear off and the feelings will be sustainable and real, rather than fantasy based and fleeting.

Replacing addictions is not necessarily a sign of immaturity, but a trait of addiction.

There are also cases of WS' who are simply addicted to having affairs and the whole infidel lifestyle. Being an infidel is a way of life for them, rather than an aberration of character. I have heard Dr Harley recommend Plan B and divorce in those cases.

Those are some really interesting points. I think there is a lot of truth in the WS looking to continue the feelings of the A. They seem addicted to it and just move on to another. My wife said that admitting everything about the first A really helped to introduce true accountability and boundaries that weren't present when there were still secrets about the A.

As soon as I get a check I am due, we are going to do some sessions with Steve Harley. I am really hoping our friend will do the same, as she needs major help. They have been in MC for a while, but I don't think it has been very helpful. From the impression I get, they really aren't doing any of the MB policies.

Let's get some more FWW and FWH perspective.

I think it might be possible that a secondary affair could be related to the justification process the WS undergoes. Especially women need to find a way to make the affair "right" and so tend to vilify the BS. They have already convinced themselves that the marriage is over and have an entire list of reasons that it should be the case.

Once that list has been set in their mind, it is no easier for them to dismantle it than it was for them to create it in the first place. So when the affair ends, they simply move on to the next relationship because they have convinced themselves the marriage is really already over, since this is the only possible way for them to justify "falling in love" with someone else.

The fact that this second relationship might not be romantically based could be the result of the emptiness talked about already. But it could, I think also be a result of the high of the first affair. Just like the person who gets drunk and wakes up in the morning and says "Did I really do that last night?" I think an already wayward mindset makes it easy to drop the inhibitions all together. When someone comes on to them, the near giddiness they feel makes that next step all the more easier.

All just speculation and I'm sure someone has done research and got a paper or book on it someplace...

Mark

I am curious about the statement that they both made that they were caught up in the challenge and excitement. Is that just a common thing most WS say, or is that a mark of a particular type of A? I mean all A's are about selfish and narcissistic decision making, but don't different people have A's for different reasons?

After my WH's first PA, he came home (did not know of MB at the time), then proceeded to engage in an EA with another coworker; he would cover by trying to get us ALL to go out (she and her H and me and him). I wasn't biting . My resentment grew, he did not show signs of recovery, so I asked him to leave. While we were separated, he took up with OW#3, this relationship went further than the first PA; they moved in together. By the time he came home, the addiction was SET in. When he started withdrawal, his drinking increased. No affair with women this time, an affair with alcohol. Needless to say, we are not recovered. One addiciton was traded for another.

Marc - Yes, people have affairs for different reasons. That's why there are different "Classes," i.e. Class I, Class II, Class III, TYPES of affairs from a classification standpoint.

Reasons for the affair and approaches to recovery from them vary according to the "Affiar Type."

There are common recovery things that are a part of ANY recovery effort, regardless of the type of affair, and there are particular "challenges" and things from a recovery standpoint that are "better suited" to one Class versus another Class.

But let's address the FIRST "common requirement" that is needed with any recovery from any type of affair:



Just HOW is this woman supposed to "recovery" from an affiar if her husband doesn't know about it?

The FIRST requirement to have any chance at recovery is CONFESSION. That is followed by the SECOND requirement of Openness and Honesty.

Give that this "friend" has NOT done the first step, there is NO hope for the second step.

In other words, liars lie and deceivers deceive. There is NO excuse for an affair, nor is there any excuse (rationalized reason) for having a second affair. A second affair is possible because the First and Second requirements are NOT, and have not, been met. This woman, sorry if it sounds a bit harsh, is still wrapped up in "self-centeredness" and only doing what SHE "wants to do."

Her husband is OWED the truth. The decision to remain in this marriage now belongs to HIM. That may well "scare" her, but it's the TRUTH. She chose already. Now she may want to choose again. But the truth is that the CHOICE takes TWO people, operating from the vantage point of KNOWLEDGE, not lies of commission or omission. She no longer has any "right" to deny her husband the RIGHT to choose for himself, just as she appropriated that right for herself REGARDLESS of her husband's feelings or beliefs regarding MARRIAGE in general, and being married to her in specific.




Regarding your own marriage, two words are of primary importance here. Extaordinary Precautions.

They are needed because despite what anyone might 'think,' there was, and most likely remains, a "vulnerability" to an affair. Precautions are PUT into place to provide not only protection FROM a subsequent situation that could lead to an affair, but to PROTECT the marriage from an "accountability" standpoint.

Following an affair, and when recovery is chosen, the REALITY is that there "are places you can no longer go, things you can no longer watch, people you can no longer see or associate with, etc."

Remove possible areas of "temptation." That is needed BECAUSE a affair is "prima facia" proof that needed standards were not in place and that "rationalization" did, and can again in the future, happen to "give someone 'permission' to allow themselves to violate their standards, (i.e. fidelity in marriage)."

The only reason I found out about my FWW's affair is I came across an email she had left open on taskbar explaining her first affair to another OM she was talking to and intending to meet as well.

I sent her a huge e-mail through my wife explaining the same VERY clearly and VERY thoroughly. If you read the entire message, you would see that it invoked respect, duty, faith, and every other issue that might get through. I was under the impression that she was ready to do the right thing, but she has come back with more "I am certain my husband will leave me and our son". I am trying to get her to spend the money to have at least one session with Steve Harley, as I hope he may be able to help. At this point, I think there is little chance of her telling because of her fear that he will leave. She just doesn't care about doing what is right, despite the damage it will do in the future.



That is where we are now. We are really trying to get things worked out so that effective boundaries are in place. We are definitely working on spending more time together and being certain that she avoids independent activities. She has to deal with some things within herself, I believe, in order to know herself better and understand who she is and why she feels and does things.

Marc - one very good source for this information is the book, Torn Asunder, by Dave Carder.