So to make a very long story short. My W and I have been having troubles for about 18 months. We have been married for going on 13 years but together for almost 18 years. We have two daughters 10 and 18 (step). We have had problems. We have read His Needs, Her Needs and among other books and have been in counselling for almost 5 months. So far nothing has worked even though some progress has been made. It was finally concluded that my W is unwilling to give up a friend that she has been having an EA for the last year or so. She swears they are just friends and no PA has occurred but she has decided after I demanded it today in session that she is unwilling to give up this friendship and choses to separate essentially freeing her up to see him physically. I think it is a bunch of bull and there is waaayy more to this friendship but whatever. As it sits right now we are in formal separation planning, I have completely given up and so has she that we will be together.

I refuse to be hurt by her any longer. She does not feel that I can "connect" with her and that is why she choses this friend over me. I know that with the friend still in the picture, I have no chance at connection and therefore we are separating.

I have no questions and not looking for any advice but really felt I just needed to share my abbreviated story. I posted a few months ago while we were working on things and have since gone dark on this site (until today) and worked through things with counselor and wife.

I am completely devastated that wife is giving up and choosing this loser over me. I have been a faithful and good husband and father. I have never cheated, always held down a good job, no financial problems, no drugs/drinking problems, worshiped the ground my wife walked on but yet for her there was something missing that I was not giving her and now I know that I did not stand a chance with this woman especially if this guy is in the picture.

I know alot of you will respond with "its not over", "don't give up" but it is and I have. I guess now I just need a little time to heal, some advice on doing so and a place to vent. I really do not have many friends that I can turn to.

I feel very alone, depressed, taken advantage of, jealous, scared, and very angry.

Thanks for listening.

WhatNext4Me

What have you done to break up the two lovebirds? Your situation would get better if you could make the consequences of them continuing their affair worse than the alternative. I would not negotiate any divorce, but rather fight for everything. You have a 10 year old to still care for, and I would fight for custody and as favorable financial settlement as possible. Do not let this loser near your child. Do you live in a state with AOA on the books?

I feel like I am done fighting for her. I have given her everything I have and then some during the last 6 months or so. I have been unable to convince her that sticking with our marriage is right and favorable for her. I have not done anything to sabatoge her friendship. She will learn soon enough but I have to let it go, it is far too painful. I will focus my fight for my kids and let her have the loser that she has become as well.

I am not sure what AOA is and I live in California.

I put up one hell of a fight, if I have any energy left i would keep fighting. I feel horrible for kids and also feel horrible for wife and the terrible decision she has made but again, the way I feel right now, I have no fight left.

I want to be happy and separation and divorce looks happy for me right now. I still very much love her and wish things were different but she does not feel the same way.

I fear that she moves towards him, has a change of heart and then comes back to me. I fear that because I will want to take her back but know that at that point it will be way too late.

I am not going to take back a woman that has chosen some other man over me and then changes her mind back again.
I need to move on.

WhatNext4Me

She absolutely won't change her ways until the OM is out of the pic, believe me I am a FWW. I didn't want to hear anything my husband said while i was still hearing OM's lies. It took a call from my mother. she was crying and begging me not to make the same mistake she did. She left with another man when i was 7 and my sis was 4 and my brother was 2. My dad raised us. I know how bad it hurt to grow up without a mom.
I have not been posting long, You can read my thread if you want. My husband and I are not out of the weeds yet, but I am doing everything I can think of to make it up to him. Our marriage is worth the fight and yours is too.

I note you have been together for 18 years and have an 18 year old child (step)

Did your relationship with your now wife start as an affair?

I do appreciate the encouragement.

Let's just entertain this for a minute. How would one expose such a situation? They used to work with each other but he recently quit. They call and text each other all the time, they see each other very rarely due to schedule and me. Her mother knows something is up so I could use that angle and let her know what is going on and conspire against her. I could also use my 18 year old who thinks mom and dad are "having trouble". I don't think either know that the biggest area of preventing us from getting out of trouble is this loser. Should I spill the beans and hope that her mother or our daughter can talk some sense into her? My wife would absolutely go nuts over either of those and if they backfired would certainly use that against me in future battles.

I know my marriage is worth the fight and I have fought a long hard battle but I have so far I have fought a clean battle. Do I really have to get ugly and messy with this? I really just want it all to go away.

I am not spineless or weak just tired and exhausted.

WhatNext4Me

No our marriage did not start as an affair. My wife was 17 and had a child. The child's bio father was also 17 and a real loser. He was involved with his daughter for about three or four years. I stepped into the picture when the two of them had stopped seeing each other. We started dating when daughter was just turning 1 and then eventually got married about 5 years later. I have never formally adopted her daughter but from the age of about 3 or 4 when the bio father stepped out of the picture, I stepped in and have been "dad" ever since.

I never refer to her as step child or her to me as step dad. We have had an up and down relationship over the years but more due to personalities and other stuff not really anything to do with biological or not biological. She has accepted me and loves me as her dad and I have accepted and love her as my daughter, we just don't share the same genes.

OK.

Regarding exposure you should tell parents, children and friends who can have an impact on her decision about the affair. It's not punative.

If the OM has a wife or girlfriend you should also tell her as well.

The goal is to end the affair.

Many affairs end with exposure.

Exposure is to an affair as Chemotherapy is to cancer.

I guess the really sad thing is that my wife does not view it as an affair just a friendship as she describes it. But by every definition I can find on this site it is at least an emotional affair and no admittance as of yet or even concrete proof on my part of a physical affair. I fear that if I start running around telling everyone she is having an affair, then she will turn that on my because in her mind and as far as everyone else is concerned they are "just friends". I have no smoking gun. The only two people in the world that view it as an affair is me and our counselor.

Trust me if I had a smoking gun then I would be waving it in many faces.

WhatNext4Me

What,

""My wife would absolutely go nuts over either of those and if they backfired would certainly use that against me in future battles.""

What battles you talking about dude? You are hanging it up, correct? What can it hurt? Let her go nuts. She seems to be going anyway.

And this big loser is not married I would guess.

""fought a long hard battle but I have so far I have fought a clean battle. Do I really have to get ugly and messy with this? I really just want it all to go away.""

Sounds like it was a squeaky clean, no boundaries, worship the ground you walk on, do what you want, but gosh look how good I am to you, type battle.

You are fighting for your marriage, so yes you really have to get ugly and messy and pissy and angry and rant and rave against the situation.

Your plan A, although this should work 99% of the time, seems to be going to the doormat stage. Maybe it was plan A but without the stick!

So maybe a switch to plan B, to save you and your mental and physical health.

Let her see what she is missing.

IMHO

kirk

If she doesn't get mad, you aren't doing it right.

Exposure isn't fun.

It's not meant to be fun. It's meant to end the affair. Whether she believes it is or not.

What,

""She swears they are just friends and no PA has occurred but she has decided after I demanded it today in session that she is unwilling to give up this friendship and choses to separate essentially freeing her up to see him physically""

When you stated the above, I thought you meant that she is choosing to separate from you rather that break their "friendship" bond. And by separating she indicated that she was intending to take it to this next (physical) step.

Just by choosing him over you and the kids, would make all hearing this think there is an affair going on. It sounds like it to me!!

Stay strong!

kirk

I guess my fear of it getting ugly at this stage is that it might hurt the kids.

I have not done a good Plan A and let her ignore the boundaries. She will get a real dose of things once we separate. Our counselor has suggested a slow separation for the sake of the kids and that the two of us put on a nice face again for the sake of the kids.

I did not do anything by the book, Plan A, Plan B but tried a bunch of different things - likely my mistake not using tried and true techniques.

It was a clean battle and you are absolutely right the boundaries were not set right and not followed.

I followed some - not all of counselors advice. She encouraged boundaries and for me to stick to it. My wife didn't follow and I didn't force, then the counselor kind of forced our hand into separation. I am a little PO'd at how this transpired but I know counselor could see that she was not going to stop seeing this loser and then forced a decision out of me that is the equivalent of Plan B - no contact other than kids, no emotional connection, complete separation. I think she thinks my wife will see the light but I think it will just give her more opportunity and then she is really gone. My wife is not at all text book and has been difficult to handle by the counselor. WIfe sets her own rules, no boundaries, no stipulations and screw everyone else. Counselor is trying to protect me from getting hurt any longer, at least that is what I gather from what transpired.

Not really sure what happened to be honest.

WhatNext4Me

krusht,

I think you understand it pretty well. Wife allegedly has kept friendship as just that a friendship but I call it an EA during our time together. She admitted today that once we separate to take this friendship to the next level and start to date him and become physical. I guess since she waited until we were separated this justified it as not being a PA? Not sure on that. Needless to say, I feel betrayed and they are probably knocking it out right now.

Yes - she essentially chose him over me. She is big time in the fog and I have been unsuccessful at getting her out of it. She is bitter at me for the past, and my in ability to connect with her, she has connection with loser but can't find it with me. The list goes on and on. I will admit I have not been the model husband and have neglected my marriage and wife in the past. however, I have been working my butt off the last 6-9 months to make up for it but in her minds I have been unsuccesful. As our counselor puts it, me jumping through hoops for her as she is off frolicking with her friends - no boundaries, no cares, no worries, no accountability. Am I supposed to keep fighting for that regardless of my vows, kids, marriage?

He is recently separated from his wife, she walked out on him with their young child last summer, he as another ex wife with at least two kids and for the past 6 months he has been "doing" all her co-workers. And this is what she is leaving me for, this piece of work.

WhatNext4Me

"WIfe sets her own rules, no boundaries, no stipulations and screw everyone else."

Just on her "friend" or on everything?

Is her "friend" married or girlfriend?

Krusht

I established a boundary with this friend after wife admitted that if she and I were not together that she would likely pursue him. As you can imagine that is dangerous to any relationship. She however, chose to ignore that boundary and to continue to talk, text and visit with him as "friends". Well after calling her on the carpet the last couple of weeks and forcing her hand, she basically decided today that she is not going to follow through with my boundary and continue to have this "friend". Essentially leaving me the decision of, Ok then we are done - no negotiation. Let's decide on some separation terms and move on and be happy. She has hurt me for a long time and I just got no fight left. This was all done during our counseling session today that lasted about 2 hours. Our counselor agreed that there was no changing her mind and that the boundary crossing was destructive to the marriage and very painful for me so she essentially encouraged the separation. I know it tested our counselor as she is a marriage therapist not a marriage separatist but she recognized the state my wife is in and thought I might go along with her boundary crossing so helped me try and negotiate but in the end a separation was the end result.

Not the way it was intended but that is the way it happened.

To answer your question, she is usually pretty good at negotiating in marriage and following boundaries but this one she was pretty set on. She obviously has some strong feelings towards him. I explained his situation in a previous post but in a nutshell a longtime loser and wife knows his entire history as she has been helping him sort through it for the last 12 months. There in lies the biggest problem - he needs her as a friend and she is wanting to help him and has developed something for him in the process. I have not been enough of a bleeding heart for her to help me during this time.

WhatNext4Me

What,

Would your wife be up to the EN questionnaire?

Sounds like she is a nurturer, a mothering mother. The kids are growing up and soon out, and you are strong and able bodied.

So she has this project that she cannot, must not, abandon or the guy will fall to pieces. So either the guy is milking it, looking for the big payoff, or he is emotionally retarded.

Do you know the guy? Ever talked to him and let him know how you feel? Again, what could it hurt?

""I know it tested our counselor as she is a marriage therapist not a marriage separatist""

As my gov would say "Dahts ah goot won"

kirk

We've been there and done that whole emotional needs questionairre stuff. She thought it was pretty stupid. We tried things in His Needs, Her Needs for a while, then gave up. When we started with this current counselor, she suggested a different approach but many overlapping foundations called "How We Love". it has a workbook and tries to identify alot of the same things that HN, HN tries to as well. it also goes into childhood and identifies various love styles. My wife is textbook vacillator - can't make a decision to save her life, needs connection, needs to be needed, need people to pour their heart out so she can fix things. I am a textbook avoider/pleaser. Don't deal well withe emotions and expressing/responding to them, have trouble feeling things, try and make others happy to make myself happy, lose your identity, ...

The Vacillator and Please/Avoider marriage is wrought with issues and takes a lot of work to balance out according to the book. We were making progress. I came a long way in being able to express myself and feel and deal with things. However, my wife continues on with her pet project of this "friend" and won't let it go. I guess she feels the only way she can fix him is by dating him. Not sure. the vacillator avoided making the decision to separate until backed into the corner. She also vacillated and decided not to leave her friend. I was hoping the counselor and I could have made better head way there but to no avail.

WhatNext4Me

As far as the other guy, I have seen him a couple of times but never really talked to him. We went out once and went to a restaurant/bar and I bought him a beer, handed it to him knowing that he was a friend of my wife's and he took the beer, no thank you, no acknowledgment, no nothing. That was kind of the first impression with this guy and ever since I have thought he was a loser looking to get in the pants of my wife. I have shared this with my wife on many occasions and I am usually a very good judge of character so if I think he is a loser, he must be.

I have not confronted him but have been tempted on a few occasions but I am concerned that I may do something I will regret.

He has very few morals and is quite the player. Not at all what my wife would normally be interested in, but he has something going for him, I am just not sure what it is.


WhatNext4Me