okay, maybe I am really off in left field, here...what is "IB" ???

okay, maybe I am really off in left field, here...what is "IB" ???
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irritable bowel? NO..it stands for Independent Behavior. It was a big problem in my marriage.

Okay... feels like a real "duh" moment! LOL!!!
sorry... It's been a long week!.....

So then, I guess that H looking at porn on the computer and magazines, etc. could also be considered "IB" ? Especially since it hurts our M... and me...

In that context, I see it as an IB. The reccomendation for dealing with independent behavior is POJA and the rules for successful negotiation.

This is a link to the article on negotiation:



http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3350_guide.html


If you see it as infidelity, then MB has a different set of actions to reccommend.

I see it as both... I've already done the infidelity board... left it, mainly due to so much negativity....eating me up just as much as the situ with my H... not sure what to do anymore, for my own personal emotional well being. Perhaps a new thread? on that topic- MY emotional well being...

I understand what you mean about the negativity. Have you tried a plan A?

I think that is where we are now... We are talking, have initiated MC appts, and are trying to share points of view, fears, expectations, etc.

We both realize that we both have things in our relationship that we have been lax on, neglectful of....and we are trying to compensate for and replace the neglect with much more attention and concerted effort to repair, renew and rebuild our relationship.
At I know I am--and I think/hope/believe that he is too... He is not so vocal about things- just his way, I guess... but we are trying.

RE: Catperson:


WHAT--just What if a man is partaking in the viewing and often 'satisfying himself' to porn... "INSTEAD OF" or more than having sex with his wife? ESPECIALLY if the Wife DOES have a very high interest and desire for sex with her husband? How does it fit when the wife wants/needs/desires- has very strong sexual urges (for her Husband)--and he repeatedly turns down her advances, shows little direct sexual interest and advances for his wife? how is it to be taken, when a man is found masturbating to porn-- less than an hour after telling his wife- who has asked for sex and/or offered "whatever you desire" (BJ, etc) he is not interested in sex?????

Not really meaning to rehash old news- but just a real curiosity here on how your views may differ- given a different set of circumstances?

Seems to me that is the real problem. Does he give a reason for refusing your sexual advances? You are entitled to one. If he gives a reason, what then does he say when you ask him why, after just refusing sex, he is choosing self abuse?

I don't think anything short of a good MC will work this out.

Is this a deal breaker for you? Are you not willing to be married to a man who refuses sex, but chooses porn and masturbation? If so, does he know that his M is on the line?

If I understand you, you consider this infidelity. Are you willing to live with infidelity? If not, does he know this?

A lot of men are used to their W complaining, or nagging, or yelling. It gets tuned out after a while. If this is something you are going to leave the M over, let him know that.

Yes- it is. i have told him-- in no uncertain terms this last time.... he has not turned to porn & MB every time-- just a very few times; usually his refusal is followed by nothing but SLEEP and a very early wake up call for work...


I do, I am not...and Yes- he does know that, now. I made it clear after the last time I found porn on his computer.


I have never nagged him on this- but we did have some bitter confrontations: 4 all together in the course of our relationship-
I don't think he 'tuned it out'--rather he just didn't stop to think about the consequences of his actions - and to attempt to avoid hurting me-- he chose to lie to me about it, that is where he did the most damage. I'm certain he knows that now... and he did tell me himself-- that when he did view the porn-- he WAS NOT thinking- just acting; and seemed to be really ashamed of himself/his actions from there. Perhaps one of the key factors in his deciding to ask for help, in deciding to attend MC and in his choosing to try to work with me and communicate with me more than bottling things up inside to fester and rot...

Sounds like you have done all you can do on this. I hope it works out for the two of you.

Namaste

I think I tried to point out several times that, of course, 'instead of' totally changes the picture - because that is not POJA, it's IB. The only way I think it can work in a marriage is if both people are still getting exactly what they want. I have said several times that it has to be something both are ok with, and maybe I have too much exposure to things, but from what I have seen, using it can be very much a natural, perhaps even healthy part of a person's SF needs - IF it is not damaging the partner in any way.

That said, I think that many people view its use through a strong filter based on either religion or lack of self-worth and therefore can prejudge it, i.e. not give it a chance to be a SF tool in a relationship. Just like there are many other ways to engage in SF besides the standard, that can let partners explore each other's sexuality and become closer to each other. Think a weekend at a SF seminar, or shopping together for 'tools' that you can try together (even films), or going to the bookstore and getting a book with new ideas and trying them together. The key word is together.

And it's possible that, if you were to become more creative and open in your SF with H, it may be exactly what he was hoping for and he'd find the other stuff pales in comparison. I really recommend getting something from the bookstore. We have a great book called "52 Invitations to Great Sex" or something like that.

IB is never healthy for a marriage.

Does that make more sense?

I haven't read all the replies to this thread, this forum moves slowly at my office, however I can speak briefly on tis issue.

I have struggles with a pornography addiction for 21 years, I'm only 28 now. There is little that is more devastating to a relationship, with your spouse, yourself, your God, than such an evil. It has warped my views tremendously on women and sexuality in general. I would be wiling to go into more detail, however I've got to leave for a doctors appointment.

TFMM,

Thank you for posting that short paragraph. I hope you will come back and tell more of your story.

My husband, too, is addicted to porn, and has been, since he was 14 years old.

I am so tired of hearing that maybe if we wives would be more inventive, or would give our H's more sex, or would dress sexier, act sexier, BE sexier, that they would prefer to be with us.

That isn't so. Not with a porn addict.

Sushi:

I agree that an addiction is a whole 'nother ball game. What do you think constitutes an addiction. What is your definintion?

Goodwrench I see you're back. You are like a gnat on a warm summer night. You just won't go away and stay away but keep coming back to be an annoyance.

Addiction, Noun Def 2a

The condition of being habitually or compulsively occupied with or involved in something.

If this applies to his involvement with pornography, then he has an addiction to it.

And what's with the salutation: 'Namaste' Are you practitioner of Buddism or Hinduism? Why don't you go and play with your yin-yang and stop being a pest.

I started to type out my own idea about what is addiction, and you know what? It really doesn't matter if it's an addiction, or a compulsion, or even just a habit.

If a man dates and contemplates marriage to a woman who can't tolerate porn, and he doesn't tell her he looks at it regularly, that's wrong.

If a man marries this woman and keeps secrets and keeps hiding the fact that he's looking at it (a LOT), that's wrong.

If a man is caught out in a lie, and lies again saying he will never look at it, that's wrong.

Label it whatever you want to label it. If a man is willing to risk his marriage so that he can sit and wank around to other women, he either doesn't love his wife enough to care that she hurts, or he can't stop doing it, whatever the reason.

I can't disagree that disregarding feelings and lying are wrong. The reason I ask is that as I understand MB, all bets are off when one has an addiction. It's helpful to me to understand what one means by addiction.

Your new name is Gnatwrench......

I am so tired of hearing that maybe if we wives would be more inventive, or would give our H's more sex, or would dress sexier, act sexier, BE sexier, that they would prefer to be with us.
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BTDT
I think he actually got to a point where he preferred to be with me but I still wasn't enough.