I have not posted now for almost 6 mos and we have been building on our recovery and doing well - Until this weekend. I dont visit the site as much mainly from the insistance of our MC, which has left the her practice I find out today - this adds to my stich.

This past weekend I go for a fishing weekend with a group of guys to New Orleans, W visitis parents in the same city, but comes to visit us in the evenings for lack of other things to do. Towards the end of our trip my W tells me a guy in the group had been hugging on her the 1st nite there, I seen it one instance, but it looked harmless and she seemed OK with it - I was not aware it continued and she did not tell me about it till the end of the trip. Second, there was a guy there that could have passed for the OM's twin. My W smokes and used these occasions to talk to this gentlemen, I commented that he did look suprisingly like the OM, turns out he is from same town. Now my W just met this guy and in leaving hugs him and no other in his group, I said nothing then, but when we were alone I questioned the act and reason? Big fight ensues. Third, W is leaving New Orleans on her 1st business trip to Texas since A this Monday, I come home for work. We talk on Monday night and things have calmed down - we discuss this weekends happenings. We talk again on Tuesday while I am at work. I try to call her later and no answer. I try to call her up until 1:00 am and no answer, now my blood is up but I manage to fall asleep. I wake today and call her room before I go to work - No Answer. I call again 15 min later - No Answer. I leave messages after each call. She calls me later around 7:30 am and I ask her where shes been and she states in her room - and I snap. Tells me she got in around 12:00 with no explaination.

After all this work - she does this - am I over reacting or what? Going out to party till the wee morning hours is a huge boundary for me - and no calls?

C.G.

I'm Frantic

CG,

It's great that you came here and are posting, but sucks that you feel the need to be.

I am very little to offer any input as I just don't know, but you can bet that some vets will be here to offer some suggestions.

My first one would be to breath though... As you know, you are in a safe place.

CG,

I'm no vet, but I think you need to take a deep breath and wait. Your W is crossing some boundaries and that needs to be discussed with her, but not when you are so upset. It won't help the situation to blow up with her...and I have a feeling that with your emotions running high and her defenses up, that's what'll happen.

What Extraordinary Precautions do you have in place? Has W been respectful of the need for those things up until now?

The things on the trip aren't as troubling to me as her unwillingness to talk with you about being out last night. But I'm not sure how the conversation went. She may have an explanation but felt defensive when asked. Granted, that might not be the right way to respond, but it may be what she did.

I'm not suggesting that what she did was appropriate. In recovery, her job is to protect your M and that means that she follows the four rules...accounting for time is one of them. She also should not be out until late without you. Why is she traveling?

Hang in there. Don't assume the worst yet. But I do think it's reasonable to say that you need to sit down with her and talk about these new challenges.

~QNL

I'm breathing now...Wasn't so much earlier when we had our confrontation. Just being here settles

~HTM

Up to this point we discussed our boundaries and events as they happened. She says she can never allow this to happen due to the pain she has caused everyone - says she is not that person anymore.

I asked her about her whereabouts and she said she was out till about midnight and thats all she gave me. I responded by saying my last call before sleep was about 1:00 am, she contends she was back at 12:00? I also called her in the morning and no answer - giving her the benefit of the doubt she was sleep and did not wake by the call - I called twice in the morning - My fears play against me here, and I dont need to voice what my imagination tells me to say!

We (I) thought we were at a place in our recovery that I could trust her to travel to this meeting - Was I ever wrong. And she did not protect our M. She said she got back late and did not want to call and wake me. I had previously asked her to call no matter what the time - I want assurances. I have none - only that pain in my gut again....


C.G.

CG,
Red flags are up!! Warning bells are sounding.

Time to start snooping.

Maybe she was very toasted and passed out, was then too hung over to answer the phone, and when she did call you back, was abrupt, again because of the hangover.

This seems to be your BEST case scenario.

This is disrespectful to you and your intense post A pain, which she can not comprehend....and/or does not give a hoot about.

She sounds willful and not about to be checked up on at your every whim. Which she needs to be.

IMHO

kirk

CG, you are right to be very concerned and fortunately, you realize how wrong you were to relax this boundary.

My H and I had this very discussion recently about him being asked to drive a female coworker to an out of town audit. He said 'don't you trust me after all these years???' I explained to him that I DO trust him BECAUSE HE MAINTAINS PROTECTIVE BOUNDARIES IN OUR MARRIAGE.

That is why I trust him; because he does that. But if he endangers our marriage by taking foolish risks then I won't trust him.

As wtih your wife, if he disappears for hours on business trips, hugs strange women, lies about his whereabouts, etc, then that is my signal that I should not trust him.

If your wife cares about you, she will knock it off and stop hurting you. She will stop the overnight travel, stop disappearing for hours, stop going out without you and stop hugging guys. She will do everything in her power to ensure that her marriage is AFFAIR PROOFED.

Otherwise she is playing Russian Roulette with your sanity and your marriage.

Did you have the correct room #? Or were you calling her cell phone? Maybe she had the volume down. While there may be an explanation, she does not seem eager to allay your fears.

My wife went nuts at one point in her life. As she was detoxing, she gave me the same point about the hurt she had caused people, me, her, the OM, etc., etc. From there, the similarity ends.

She goes to extraordinary lengths to protect herself and me. As time has gone on, she is even more so now than say at six months from D day. I haven't a clue why this is, just that it is. She understands the need to protect weaknesses.

Larry

CG...

As a former wayward, I can tell you that this is totally unacceptable behavior. Honestly, even if she had NEVER been unfaithful to you, this is not something any married person should tolerate. But the fact that she HAS been unfaitful, and that you are supposed to be in recovery, speaks VOLUMES about her commitment and devotion to your M. Not to mention her character.

Even if she didn't spend the night with another man (I would seriously snoop to see if there is either someone new or the first A went deep underground), she is being completely ABUSIVE to you and your M. She HAS no boundaries if she is hugging men she has just met...and if she is doing that in FRONT of you, what is she doing behind your back? And she is LYING about when she got home and what she was up to...I would bet money on it! Otherwise you would have been able to reach her...not that it should have been YOU reaching HER! If she were truly remorseful and had extraordinary precautions in place, she would have calling YOU long before that, anyway.

I don't want to cause you any more pain than you are already in, but I would think long and hard about whether this is the person you really want to spend the rest of your life with. You have done your best to try and forgive her, and yet she continues to disrespect you, your efforts, and your love.

I am so sorry...I hope I am completely wrong about this...

~Sad

It was the right room, we had talked earlier in the day and earlier in the week.

If it makes you feel ANY better, I think I would feel/react the same way that you are.

You may want to sit down and discuss a list of EPs and not wait for situations to pop up. That's what I had to do b/c I was very concerned my H would keep behaving the way that lead him to fool around in the first place.

We casually discussed it at first...and then when I saw a poster here who is counseling with the Harleys post his list of EPs, I showed it to my H and we laid it all out. An example of his EPs, 1) no talking with a member of the opposite sex about personal problems 2) no going out late at night to a bar w/out me, etc. We review it regularly.

If he wasn't going to do this to my satisfaction, I was going to call the Harleys for counseling and let them try to explain it to him.

You may want to calmly have this conversation with your W and see her reaction. If she doesn't want to agree to a list of EPs that would make you comfortable, then I would say that your M is in serious trouble.

~Larry

My W's defenses have weaked over time as we begin to resume a normal marriage, this is her thinking. I wish she would go to greater lengths to protect this M.

I think in ways I am protecting myself from her weaknesses, to not empower or be ruled by her weaknesses.

Sad - Which is how I am feeling of late - saddened

C.G.

CG, what she is doing is playing RR with your life and i would explain this to her. Tell her in order for you to feel safe, then she must protect you from her weaknesses. She has shown in the past that her weaknesses can have a DEVASTATING EFFECT.

It is not lack of trust that destroys marriages, but a LACK OF BOUNDARIES. Like I told my H, 'I trust you because you observe protective boundaries,' not in spite of them.

My H has been the same as Larry's wife in that his boundaries have got stronger over time, instead of weaker. He is diligent about them now, whereas he was haphazard the first year.

~Resonance

This behavior is something that has surfaced in MC many times thru my many times on the podium. I made it claer how this behavior hurt me, and she assures me she has changed, she no longer wants to be this person.

If she comes home this evening we will discuss these exact topics, she would not offer where she was only that she was out till midnight. I have been on imagination overload since last night, and have not slept since monday night. I just need to settle down if she comes home so we can talk. Our conversation did not go well this morning when she finally checked in some 17 hours later.

I dont think I can be in much more pain at the moment just wonderin what happened and if she will even come home. The day is still early, her plane arrives in 20 minutes, and I'm flippin.

I guess she has a different filter for what she should be doing to protect us.

C.G.

~MelodyLane

I hope we make it through this hurdle, as I did not work this far and this hard for this pain and anguish, and I am sure she feels justified in her actions, which is what brought us her in the first place.

I was full of anger, LB's and DJ's this morning and was hung up on a few times (I deserved it in ways), I was not thinking clearly after being up all night.

We have really wandered from the recovery path.

C.G.

(((((((((((((((((CG)))))))))))))))))))

I am so sorry for your pain...bring her here and get her on board with MB stuff. She does not "get it." She is still foggy...she still has very little regard for your pain. But WE understand, and we are here for you!

No, she has no filter because she is not protecting you at all. This is not a matter of what she says, but a matter of what she DOES. You just have to look at her actions to see that she is very thoughtless about your feelings and as such, does not protect you.

If you get lost in her stated INTENTIONS, you will be lost forever, because it is HER ACTIONS that matter. Talk is cheap.

Do you plan on asking her where she was and with whom last night? Perhaps it would be best to agree in the future to not travel separately again? Or if there is the rare trip that can't be avoided, agree to not go out.

If it were me, I would ask her to take a polygraph to give you the reassurance you need. She should be willing to do that for you if she cares about your feelings.

And during your talk tonight, if you hear any of the following bullsh!t:

"See-I KNEW you didn't trust me!"
"Why do you have to be so controlling/suspicious?"
"I can't believe after all we've been though that you think so little of me!"
"You are obsessed with what I am doing!"
"I KNEW you hadn't changed!"
"You are making a big deal out of nothing!"

or the like...then you are dealing with a wayward. Just STOP at that point, and walk away. It will get 10x worse from that point and you will already have all the answers you need anyway...

You don't deserve that, so don't stand for it. Walk away and hold to your boundaries. What are they, BTW? If she were to cheat again-have you discussed it? Whatever they are, you must stick to them...TONIGHT!!

I will be praying for you!! Be strong-- you have fought the good fight and now it is her turn to take the wheel and prove that she at least cares about your feelings. Not too much to ask after the devastation she brought to you and your M! Not too much to ask of ANY spouse, really!

Of course you were angry. What she did was thoughtless and cruel, CG, and triggered you badly. Don't allow her to use your anger to divert from the real issue that caused the anger in the first place. Waywards are great ones for needling someone until they get a reaction and then using that reaction to play the victim card.

What your wife did has brought you to the brink and she needs to understand that. Understanding and making changes are the solution, not beating you up for being rightfully upset.