It has been said that if something you do makes the WS angry at you, then you've done the right thing.

Her anger will pass.

-ol' 2long

Abandoned,

You really don't understand do you??? You said

Read this statement carefully. What you want is NOT going to happen...anytime soon. I would say that at best it will be 4-6 months. Maybe sooner, but ONLY IF: You get a lawyer and start to protect your children and yourself. She needs to see you as a lighthouse, but one that won't be blown over with all of her bluster.

Next, she is fully engaged in her affair and she is not going to disengage because she is like you, she doesn't want to look like a fool. If it were true that she has only known him 2 weeks or so, then there were some very very deep problems in your marriage. Even if you did not see these problems she has them and they won't be sorted out in a few days.

IF she left OM today, I am betting it will be months before she is through withdrawal and even willing to consider coming back. Oh, she will miss the kids but not you for a long while yet.

She is a nurse, she will NOT have any problems obtaining a new job. She will not have problems taking care of herself, she has friends, she has OM, she will have co-workers.

You think of her as totally incompetent, but she is not and she will figure out how to do many things she has not done before.

What do you do? You work on yourself, you legally (as in today) protect yourself and your children, you prepare for her to tell many lies about you, especially if she decides to seek custody of the children and she may. You can also expect that she may try to force YOU out of the house claiming abuse. We have seen all of these tactics and more. Hence, seek legal counseling NOW.

If she comes to visit, have someone there you trust to vouch that you have not abused her. You don't understand yet, but this is a war you are in and you need to decide fight to win. Who will you fight? Yourself, your instincts, her, her dreams, her view of you. Prepare and hope that it doesn't come to all of this, but it can.

Right now you have a huge leg up, she abandoned the family. She was considering adopting a child with you not long ago. Now she does not care about that child. If YOU want to adopt this child on your own, consider doing so, but don't count on her at least for many months.

If she came home today, your marriage won't recover for about 2 years perhaps more. This is the type of time line you are dealing with. You cannot last this time line if you have not protected your love and yourself legally because she isn't going to come home today or tomorrow, or the next day. And when she does the anger will be huge. You have ripped her dream away.

I hate to be so blunt, but ask any who have been through this, ask any who have been here for a long time, I am not stretching this one bit.

You want your family, your wife, your NEW life??? Fight for it, plan for it, live for it, but don't let IT happen to you when you are unprepared.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL


PS: I know it really hasn't occured to you, but being on this board, seeking counseling, wanting something desperately, does not mean your marriage will survive. You are just giving it the best chance you can for it to do so. You really could lose it all.

Well JL, that was pretty blunt. NO, I don't consider her incompetent! In fact, she is a very intelligent person, certainly capable of taking care of herself if she so chooses, she just has never had to and is ignorant about many things, but not stupid.
I do agree with you, if she doesn't turn around very quickly (2 weeks, ...the same amount of time it took her to turn away), then it will indeed be months and maybe even by then too late, who knows. She has a very angry side to her and I have always bore the brunt of most of it. And yes, I do see that there were major issues in our marriage that need to be addressed, but none that she has pointed out. She is not giving any specific reasons for her "unhappiness." She was lead astray, she followed, obviously, there were EN not being met...for both of us!

We warned you about what she would say. You shouldn't be surprised by it and I hope you weren't.

Implement the 180. This will make you more appealing.

You need to create the illusion of moving on. Here's the 180:

The 180
1. Don't pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.

2. No frequent phone calls.

3. Don't point out "good points" in marriage.

4. Don't follow her/him around the house.

5. Don't encourage or initiate discussion about the future.

6. Don't ask for help from the family members of your wayward partner.

7. Don't ask for reassurances.

8. Don't buy or give gifts.

9. Don't schedule dates together.

10. Don't keep saying, "I Love You!" Because if you really think about it, he/she is, at this particular moment, not very loveable.

11. Do more than act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!

12. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.

13. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!

14. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don't push any issue, no matter how much you want to!

15. If you're in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.

16. Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that "they (the wayward partner)" are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack there of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life…with out them!

17. Don't be nasty, angry or even cold - Just pull yourself back. Don't always be so available…for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you're missing.

18. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment? Make yourself be someone they would want to be around, not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.

19. All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!

20. Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control? YOURSELF!

21. Don't be overly enthusiastic.

22. Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!

23. Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you? HEAR what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more!

24. Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.

25. Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.

26. Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.

27. Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.

28. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.

29. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It's not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don't care!

30. Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior.

31. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It "ain't over till it's over!"

32. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.

33. When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don't work out with the affair partner.

aw3,

JL was indeed blunt. LISTEN!!!!! There is God-given wisdom here for you. It looks to me like everything the vets tell you is coming to pass.

You may say that you think she is competent but it does not come across that way. You keep saying that she has been lead astray, like she's a baby or worse yet, a puppy. You continually refer to the OM as a predator. You need to see that your WW made her OWN decision here. The OM did not cast a spell on her and promise her candy if she followed him. He pursued her and she responded because appropriate boundaries were not in place by either one of you.

I am in no way defending her, but I am guessing that the OM acted like he respects her intelligence.

Your WW is not as ignorant as you think. You can not work in the Hospice field without seeing some of the worst that life has to offer. If you really want her back, you are going to have to act like you respect her. It does not come across here as though you do.

What is your plan? Are you Plan A'ing or Plan B'ing? It is important that you make that distinction and tell her if you are Plan B'ing.

As for swallowing your pride, read the Book of Hosea. Remember that being a Christian is all about swallowing your pride. But do not confuse pride and self-respect. Self-respect, yes. Pride, no.

Blessings,
WH2LE

Well done POM ... as far as I'm concerned, when it comes to BH's, whose WW's are still in the A, the 180 is 100 times more effective than Plan A, even though it doesn't get nearly as much play here at MB.

Is there a typical time frame for how long the 180 may take to work? How long before it's time to truly move on?

1st let me say that I am NOT a "marriage at all costs type", therefore, if you have those convictions, then you may want to consider other advice.

As far as I'm concerned, a BH should be looking at ANY plan in terms of weeks rather than months. IMHO, if a WW isn't willing to leave the OM, basically immediately, after her BH learns of the relationship, the chances for a successful R go WAY down for two seperate reasons. (1) She is likely too involved with the OM to give R a reasonable chance, and more importantly (2) there is only so much humiliation that any BH should have to endure, and the longer the WW flaunts her inappropriate relationship in front of her BH, the less likelyhood of him being able to get past the level of her betrayal.

You are already at a HUGE disadvantage because of your WW's proclamations of her intentions to seek happiness with the OM, even after you discovered her secrets.

What I've found on my 4 years here...is actually that's the exception...not the rule.

Point being...is abandoned..you are expecting WAY TOO MUCH...WAY TOO FAST.

The very worst thing you can do at this point is let yourself get caught up in the chaos. You have to be the lighthouse. She's out there in the choppy ocean..being thrashed about my enormous waves ... how will she find you if you're out there with her?????

Everyone here knows exactly what you are going through...you want this over...one way or another..you can't figure out how to get from one minute to the next... so you immediately try to force a resolution...you fool yourself into believing that even if your marriage goes belly up...and you lose all chance of recovery...at least there's an END to the madness.

HUGE HUGE HUGE mistake.

When I first came here... I was told by someone very wise.. (believer)...not to make any decisions for 6 months...because my emotions would change hour to hour..day to day. She could NOT have been MORE right.

We're not telling you these things by guessing...it's all very predictable for the most part...if you really heed what's being said to you...you will fare MUCH better.

Try not to react to emotions...they will always lead you down the wrong path right now.

It is a great list, however I see virtually every item on it as fitting with a great Plan A like a hand to a glove. There is not one item mentioned that is contrary to the intent of an effective Plan A. Nowhere is it stated that Plan A is simply being a whipped cowering doormat.

I guess the major difference that I see between the 180 and Plan A, but for BH/WW's its a very important one ... is that, based on my understanding, the 180 emphasizes showing the BH moving on WITHOUT the WW, while Plan A seems to emphasize recovery of the M together as much as the WW will allow.

The reason I see this as such a difference is I believe that WW's are more apt to try to keep all of their options open, and the 180 takes away their perceived safety net.

Just my thoughts, feel free to differ.

This may be coming out of left field but just for your information, if the OM in any way was a counselor to your W, there may be a basis for a lawsuit against both him and the entity that employed him. In most states there is no longer an alienation of affections cause of action, but those whose professions involve counseling others are subject to a higher standard of care. You should have your lawyer look into it or see if you can contact a plaintiff's personal injury attorney who is familiar with this type of case.

ABandoned,

I would strongly urge you to obtain a copy of Surviving an Affair, by Harley. You will have a much better understanding of the time line.

Also read about plan A. It is not about being a doormat, it is about being willing to face your own shortcomings, if the WW will give you a chance, and about meeting needs if WW will give you a chance. BUT, there is a reason for plan B and that is while plan A shows a willingness, NOTHING is going to happen until the A ends. Plan A is not about competing with OM or about trying to end the A. That will end when it ends.

Harley's experience is that the A's usually last roughly 6 months some go longer, some go much longer. No one knows how your W's A will go. The 180 is very useful in giving you someway to respond to what she will lay on you, you handling the fog, and the accusations. But, it is unlikely the A will end in a week or two after discovery or exposure. MyRev, is right if the A ends sooner, so much the better. However, many marriages on this site have recovered when the A lasted much longer.

I originally told you to look up plan B, here is why. When you run out of love for your W, the chances of recovery go way way down. Plan B isolates you from the day to day maneuvering of the WW. It helps you hold on to your love.

As to when to let go??? You could have done that the day she left. You can do that now. You can do it tomorrow. You can do that a year from now. It was suggested by a previous poster that you give it 6 months. I think that is reasonable.

Here is the point, IF you decide to go with the plans here and I hope you do, you need to include evaluation points: say 3 months out, 6 months out, and see how YOU are really feeling, if you sense any progress (small or baby steps is good initially), and whether you want to continue. This is particularly important if you are in plan A, because you want to go to plan B before your love runs out for her.

Two things to remember: you are stronger than you think. She is more confused than you think, no matter what she says, she knows she is doing wrong.

I would again encourage you to seek legal counsel, this is important if you want to use plan B, and it is important if you want to protect your love for her. If you have many things taken care of you can afford to detach from some of the drama. It will help you hold on to your love, it will help her see what she will lose, and it will help stabalize your children's life.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

Thanks guys. Wow, 6 months just seems like an eternity to me right now! I realize that I have to see the bigger picture here. I'm sure that any man could examine himself and see why his wife could have SOME excuse to leave. I see now that she may have unfufilled EM's stemming from her lack of responsibilities at home; the need to FEEL needed. It was never an intentional act on my part, I just viewed it as taking care of her and lessening the stress in her life. I believe she may have sought out another man just to have an excuse to do the unthinkable. She is way too bold in announcing things to anyone who will listen, knowing that only deepens my pain.

One update, she did call to ask to come over and see the kids tonight. When I informed her that some of our mutual friends from church were coming over and that the baby was spending the night elsewhere, she went nuts. She cursed at me and told me that she hoped I would wreck my car and die! She called back later to apologize. I remained calm, never raising my voice. I must admit, I'm finding it difficult to fight this fight without actually fighting with her. I know guys, a lighthouse, I get it!

BTW, I see my lawyer tomorrow!

Good job! It is very important not to be baited into an argument. The WS would like nothing better. Stay calm and come here when she spews stuff. We understand.

Ok - here's what you are not getting:

She has abandoned her children. She is waking up to her vulnerability legally with regard to custody - you have NO TIME to dilly-dally on this if you want to protect your children from her capricious and selfish nature. Fathers are at a disadvantage most of the time when it comes to custody - here she has handed you the trump card to protect your children and you are hesitating and ignoring strong advice here.

Prepare to end up like pomdbd3 fighting for every second of visitation he can squeeze out of a destructive ex wife.

Don't say you weren't warned! Too many here have been warning you all day and you have lost a one day advantage now.

Keep this in mind as you file for abandonment custody - she can always take extraordinary measures to restore the marriage and not lose her children and you can drop the proceedings in that case. However, you let go of your ground now, prepare to be forever at a disadvantage in being a part of the lives of your children from here on out!

Kayla, I did call our attorney today! She just couldn't see me until tomorrow. I know the W will try and use the same attorney, not thinking I will go there for fear of emberassment, and because she is also representing DSS in the adoption case of the child. Not US, but DSS. I hate to do this, but I know that I must. Thanks for the warnings, I am heeding them!

am3,

less verbage to save the pandas

I'll update on the attorney meeting later. No word from W today!