Oh, change is gonna come!

The bed comment was mostly directed to the fact that I said 6 months, and 6 months I'll give her.

So I should change my values to match hers when dealing with her?

My "good deeds" are simply what I have to do to sleep well at night and look myself in the mirror in the mornin. They are entirely independant of the worthiness of the recipient.

Not so noble. Kinda selfish really. I just don't want to feel bad about myself :p

The picture I have of your XW, based on what you've written on this thread ....

she is weak
she is not very smart
she is easily led by others
she trusts the wrong people
her survival instincts are nearly non-existent
she has no life plan beyond a few weeks/months
she makes compound errors
she does not learn from her errors
she wouldn't recognize self respect if it was handed to her in a basket tied with a ribbon

this makes her an easy target for ridicule & mockery

for the sake of your "good deeds" please don't make her a target of your ridicule & mockery

if you're going to take her in under your wing in order to help her out - pack up your weapons and call a moratorium on disrespect - feel free to pummel her when she is not so beholding to you, and she is no longer living under your roof enjoying your good deeds

just a friendly suggestion - the man in the mirror will be handsome indeed !

Pep

Do you mean I shouldn't speak of her in this thread? or LB type behaviour at home?

I've been a pretty good boy at home since the blow up. Promise

We kind of POJA'd that if she keeps her adulterous behaviour out of my sight, I'll do my best to refrain from making fun of her and her "man" and we'll do our best to get along.

As I am not the betrayed here, I didn't feel I should demand NC. Also, considering he position as a battered spouse at the time I didn't think about attaching more conditions after she offered me custody.

Do you think it would have been fair to do so?

Something like:
You can have the room at my house, so long as you mend your cheating ways?

Ok - I'll be blunt.

I think you are clever and glib in the sense you have a high fluency for writing (like someone else I know .... hmmmmm.... oh yeah, ME !)

I think your WW is like a creature who is brain damaged , and she's also soul-damaged.

Her brain skills are teensy tiny while yours are mighty and sharpened.

She is no match for you. You know it.
If she is your guest, I think you should restrain yourself from in-home acts of war. She is armed with a pea shooter and has no peas. You have a crossbow equipped with a long-distance sight and titanium arrows.

Make jokes and vent here ... but not at home as long as she is your guest.

You CAN ignore me yanno

Pep

Not exactly

"You may be my guest for.... (length of time)." (Its important to put emphasis on "GUEST")

"These are the house rules that must be followed for you to remain as my guest." (your house Cip, you make the rules, any way you want)

"This is the consequence should you ignore any of the house rules." (move her out within 48 hours, or whatever you decide)

"You must sign this agreement that you will follow the house rules as long as you remain here as my guest." (I am concerned you may have to eventually hire an attorney to evict her .... the way you currently have things arranged needs to be firmed up in a written agreement)

It's not too late to set some rules.
She does not get a vote - she's a guest.

This might be considered co-habitation if you're not super careful and specific.

Your arrangement sounds like a minor form of hades to me

Pep

Ya, she's outclassed in more ways than one

Never! You've always been one of my faves.

I'm glad you're not suggesting a moratorium on the fun making in my thread. I might have to resort to entertaining myself with horrible hideous puns.

Tried to have the rules/boundaries discussion with xWW today... degenerated into an argument pretty quick. Argh.

xWW will attack you on an unrelated matter to the conversation at hand if she feels the least bit uncomfortable or threatened. I usually don't fall for it, but she managed to get me barking right back at her. Ugh.

If there is a silver lining, even in the heat of it, when she was threatening to move out (oh no! not that! it would obviously hurt me more than her... yeah) she did say she still intends for the girls to stay with me. So she let go of the only thing she might hold over me, and I don't think she realizes it.

Gotta get those papers drawn up soonest.

Argue about what?

it's your home
she is a guest (is she paying rent?)
make YOUR decision about house rules
tell her what you have decided
there is no discussion unless she does not have clarity

anything that smacks of:
that's not fair
those rules are stupid
this makes no sense
you're too controlling
you're an A-hole
you hate me
I hate you

ANY such comment should meet your calm response:

"Nevertheless, I have made my decision. Your decision is whether or not you choose to live here under the house rules."

She has a choice - live as your guest and follow your rules - or not live there as your guest and free to break your rules.

By the way - this is exactly how Mr Pep & I parent our young adult children - rules are not up for negotiation - they can live here if they follow rules - live elsewhere if they do not. We did this with our son, who agreed to follow the rule of no booze in our house - and the first time he broke that rule - he had to leave. He asked for a second chance - we said "no".

Pep

You CAN ignore me yanno

hmmm...

New rules:

7. xWW must refer to Cipher as "Daddy" for the duration of her stay.

LMAO

"Sugar Daddy" is more like it !

News Flash:

There's a potential OM3 in the picture!

This whole thing is getting too complicated.

First there was OM1, xWW's co-worker, which whom she cheated with and eventually married in what we sometimes call an Affairage.

Then there was OM2, the internet game buddy, with which is currently having an affair on OM1 with. Dubbed OM2 simply because from my perspective, and I am the one telling this story, this is her second AP. While to my OM1, OM2 is OM1... maybe I should call him OM1.1 to reflect the fact that he is the first OM of OM1's affairage.

That brings us to OM3 (or in the new scheme OM1.2, as in OM1's OM2. oh what a tangled web...). I've known of him, as when OM1 was accusing her of dallying last year, his name was brought up and I had witnessed first hand xWW lying about where she was going to go to OM3/OM1.2's mother's house (to see the mom, her friend). Then he quit his job and when no longer a co-worker of xWW they apparently dropped contact. Fast forward to yesterday and I happen to notice xWW car at a strange location on my way between job sites. I turn my head just in time to see xWW in an intimate embrace (there are hugs and there are HUGS) but couldn't tell if they kissed/were kissing from my angle.

When I got home for lunch that day I asked her why she was still awake (she still works third shift and gets home at 8am and usually asleep by 10am) and she claimed to have been restless and sat up watching movies. I called her on my spotting and she then admits to going to see him to just hang out and that they are "just friends".

...but, when I add some circumstances; her suddenly cutting her game and telephone time with OM2/OM1.1 by 70 or 80 percent; a recent comment about probably never being able to consummate with OM2/OM1.1; lying about the extent and content of her relationship to her husband last year and me just last week; lying about going to his apartment; I could almost feel sorry for OM1 and OM2... almost. Impressive though, no? Cheating the husband and the boyfriend simultaneously? The girl has talent.

Later that day she admits to "liking him". What's next? Passing a "do you like me, check yes or no" note to him at the next shift meeting?

OM3/OM1.2 is a co-worker at the big chain department store. He is 22 and single (remember xWW is currently a married mother of 4); works at the aforementioned barely above minimum wage job; just moved out of his mother's home into a grubby little rent house (a small improvement over OM2/OM1.1); no car or license; no phone or cell phone.

A small improvement over OM2/OM1.1 in that he has a job and a place of his own at 22, and who knows, may be something some day.
Still currently in my estimation a not-winner. (I promised to stop calling everyone she's attracted to a loser... but really a spade is a spade even is she insists I call it something else).

Honestly, it all hurts my pride a little. Here I am; young enough to start new but old enough know what's important (28 this month); a good (single and self sufficient) father; a good job with good compensation and benefits (municipal IT director); and just all around handsome devil (yeah, I'm cute); homeowner; etc. etc.; all pretty much true even if I do have to say all that myself, and I haven't even gotten a wink. Not that any sane man who knows everything I know, and I'm the only person besides xWW in this situation who knows all or most of the dirty little secrets, would want to be with this woman, but... really? What kind of loser must I be to not even be in this race?

Her explanation is that I've become like a brother to her, and that she can not fathom a romantic or sexual relationship with me ever again cause it's just icky. To which I have replied: Man, this is gonna be awkward at parties, "Meet my brother Cipher... and these are our two lovely incestuous offspring..."

So, single mom's and former single mom's, help me out. Am I just loony for being unable to understand the attraction she has for these men? Is "he's cute" or "he makes me laugh" really on the mating priority list above "will he be good to me and my children","is he a good person","can he adequately contribute financially or otherwise to a successful family", etc. etc.? Or is she just insane and immature right now and I should not feel bad about being passed over for bums?

On the up side of all this. We did talk to a lawyer. She will be signing papers. I should be able to sleep soundly with firm legal custody of my children within the month!

Unfortunately, it's looking alot like xWW will be staying in town and finding a sleazebag closer to home. Ugh. I was soooo looking forward to having large amounts of time and distance between her and my little family.

I think some women simply can't stand being alone and she's one of them.

Not only that, but those other guys are just "fun" while you would represent true commitment if she got involved with you.

She knows you'd be the responsible, "for life", kind of guy while she wants to have fun.

I have an ex who told me that. I didn't understand why she wanted these other guys, but she told me the above.

So now she's unhappy in her marriage and calls me fishing once in a while. Being a big MB fan, I tell her I can't see her while she's married and shouldn't even talk to her.

She goes quiet for months and then calls again later, fishing for a different answer.

I can't do to another man what was done to me. I don't care how big a jerk the other guy is.

I finally read this whole thread. After careful consideration I think it may be time to introduce a woodchipper into this relationship.

Just a thought.

Nah. Too messy and the noise might disturb the neighbors.

I say just wait until she signs custody papers and then dump her shiite on the porch while she's at work one day.

cipher, you have a wicked sense of humor!

Woodchipper....????

How about a manure spreader?

I have one you can use.

Is this really a race you want to be in?? It sounds like you are a great guy and she's..., well... an idiot. Get the papers signed and get her out. You are far, far better than this.

True enough, but that wasn't my point. It's like finding out about a party and making up your mind not to go... and then never receiving an invitation in the first place. I'm not heart broken. Just slightly miffed and more than a little confused

So... where to start? I'm gonna blurt out some news and we'll sort it out as we go.

xWW is moving out... but she's not moving out of state, or even out of town. OM1.1 doesn't know it yet but he's a goner. She still responds to his ILYs with the same, but she has her sights firmly now on OM1.2, the co-worker, which is why she's having to leave my house. Part of the ground-rules of her stay were that myself and my children not be exposed to any part of her A(s), and with OM1.1 this wasn't much of a problem as it was all in her room on her computer and cell phone, but recently I had begun to notice more typical A behaviour. Unaccounted for time, secretiveness, lies about where she's going, who's going to be there, etc etc. all the classics were there, and then the stumbled upon embrace from the previous post. I'd seen it coming, but hoped I was wrong for once. We had even had a conversation about it recently, "I'm not your husband and I'm not going to try and tell you who you can or can't see, but if you're going to start dating (and endless cavalcade of losers) you need to move out first." to which she agreed that was perfectly fair.

...but, she tries to sneak around and do it anyway. So, confronted with this and given the choice to; have a safe, stable environment from which to climb back on her feet emotionally and financially and get good and proper divorced; or start dating a potentially bigger (but much closer) loser immediately and without delay... guess which she's choosing. She hasn't even filed for D yet! Ugh.

I'm 6 years past D-day and almost 3 years back on my feet and feeling good about life, but this is all too much. Too many triggers and flashbacks, and it's starting to get me down.

On the bright side, the appointment with the lawyer is still go. I only believe this because she is still completely in me-first mode and 4 kids puts a bigger crimp in her style and her pocketbook than 2, even with child support.

I was sooooo looking forward to her being far far away.

I think she really is thinking with her crotch. After the bust-up with B.O.B., I pulled a small prank, leaving a note in his hiding place which she thinks I haven't discovered. She hasn't blown up at me over it yet and I did that almost 2 months ago which means he's been gathering dust the whole time...

Also on the bright side, the Zoloft had an almost immediate noticeable effect. She's been much easier to get along with... aside from the above.

I'm sure there's more to come. I'm forgetting some things. Kind of mentally and emotionally exhausted right now.