CG, I do remember you, and I remember your W also. I believe I was probably one of the folks who got all over her for her deception on MB. The fact that she did not return your calls is beyond concerning from my viewpoint. There really is not a good excuse, unless her cell phone was flushed down the toilet accidentally and the hotel she was at lost all phone service.

I want to comment on your MC's insistance that you stay away from MB. This would be my analogy and feel free to share this with him/her. Let's say that a woman was raped and was trying to get over the trauma. She was in IC, but no one in her life could adequately understand what she was going through because they never had experienced being raped. So she joined a support group with rape survivors. People who were in the beginning stages who totally got her feelings, and people who were recovered who could give her hope. She began to feel not so alone in her pain, and not so crazy within herself. However, her IC insisted she stop being involved with this group.

I am very thankful that neither my H, who only posted here for a short time, and our MC, NEVER told me to stop posting on MC. Franky I needed this place and that would have been a dealbreaker for me.

OMG, he was told by a "MC" to stay away from Marriage Builders? For what possible reason? This is a life raft for betrayed spouses.

Hi Mel! I'll quote CG here:

"I dont visit the site as much mainly from the insistance of our MC, which has left the her practice I find out today - this adds to my stich."

It is truly amazing how many crappy MCs and ICs there are out there. Also, some that are actually pretty good but have no grasp about infidelity and what it takes to recover from this. So they speak out of ignorance. I also think when both Ss post here it takes a very strong FWS who can handle the emotions of the BS.

You are right about MB being a life raft. It allowed me to purge out every vile emotion I had about the A, OW, and H. I had a lot of vommitting out of emotions to do. Plus, MB kept me strong and helped me have the courage to do what I needed to do. I don't have a doubt that H & I wouldn't be together without this place.

Good to see you, CV55!

Hopefully, he can explain the reasoning of his "MC" behind giving up such a valuable support system.

Agree very much about the incompetence of most MC and IC. They don't know BUTKUS about infidelity and haven't the slightest idea how to save a marriage. I guess that is why MC has the highest failure rate of any of the counseling venues at 84%. They are usually more harm than good!

"Hopefully, he can explain the reasoning of his "MC" behind giving up such a valuable support system."

Mel, I can probably make a guess about the reasoning. The FWS believes that MB triggers the BS and keeps the couple in the past. So the FWS relays this info to the MC. Also, at times a BS is triggered here so there is some truth to that statement. Mostly I think MB normalizes a BS's feelings, which is good.
So the MC, who like the general public does not understand the trauma of infidelity, resulting PTSD, etc., thinks it would be better for the couple not to have this place as a trigger.

Regular old M issues are hard enough to deal with. Add infidelity and it is one complicated M problem. Basically we BSs have to deal with the trauma, and try to heal with the person who tramatized us. It's all quite amazing to me.

Truthfully Mel, I'm not sure how people get through this without the help of a good MC. It's finding a good one who understands this mess that's the challenge.

Good to see you too!

ok, I got ya! So getting help with recovery from others who have BTDT is characterized as a negative "trigger?"

Using that same logic, AA and NA would be a negative influence because the support would "trigger" the client.

I think this kind of "logic" is a prime example of why most MC are dismal failures. Thanks for the explanation!

Hearing stuff like this makes me eternally grateful for our little MC who sent us to Marriage Builders. He DID know how to save marriages, and he did understand the dynamics of infidelity and we have a great marriage to show for it today.

"ok, I got ya! So getting help with recovery from others who have BTDT is characterized as a negative "trigger?"

Using that same logic, AA and NA would be a negative influence because the support would "trigger" the client."

Mel, this is just a guess on my part. To be fair, pre-A I always hated As and understood the damage as much as I was capable. However, if you would have used words like "trauma", "PTSD", and maybe said how this experience is worse that losing a child or rape, I might have doubted that. That's why a generally good MC might totally miss the boat on this. However, these days I don't think there is much of an excuse for a MC not to be well versed in this area.

Also, I wonder how many MCs or ICs really understand the connections between As and addiction. Pre-A if you would have told me a WS had an A and was addicted to the OP I would have said, "Give me a break." I have been taking these workshops on addiction the past month and can't believe how people in As are so like people addicted to drugs.

Finally, these As are not cookie cutter experiences, so recovering from them isn't either. You & I might differ on this point, just because of some things I've noticed you've written about MC. But for me, MB was a savior for me in breaking up the A and staying strong. Yet MB alone wasn't enough for our recovery. Our MC really understands these As and the trauma, so never told me to "get over it". But we had to go pretty deep into MC to heal from this experience. Partly cause I was such a demanding little BS "B". My H needed the help to go where I needed him to go.

This was a big shock to me too. As a recovering alcoholic, imagine my SURPRISE when I got here and quickly recognized these people had the same mentality of an ALCOHOLIC! Their manipulation skills are a little weak and undeveloped, but despite the amatuer bs skills, it is all the same.

I notice that other recovering alcoholics here easily see right through them because they can recognize a fellow traveler!

Did you know that Dr Harley started his career working with alcoholics?? I believe that is why he has has such a GOOD grasp of the similarities in the mindset of the adulterer and the alcoholic. They have the SAME wayward mentality as a result of an addiction. Dr.Harley SEES that.

"I notice that other recovering alcoholics here easily see right through them because they can recognize a fellow traveler!"

Do you think that being a recovered alcoholic helped you have empathy towards your H because you got the addiction part of this? I know that I, like so many BSs I have seen here, kept repeating this same question over and over again. "How could my H have done this? He knew what he was doing? He had a choice. So how could he have broken our vows and been such a [censored] on top of it?"

As time has gone on, and H stuck with me in my own healing, I was able to begin to have some compassion for how he got into this mess. This one workshop talked about the cycle of addiction, which you probably know about. It just really showed how an addict gets sucked further into their addiction, and it is the substance which gives them the relief from their bad feelings, mostly shame. Our MC also compared addiction to a vortex. The more the addict, or WS, gets sucked into their addiction, their primary focus is the substance. Interesting stuff!

Talk about being addicted. I should be writing cover letters and sending out my resume today so maybe I'll get a job. But it's been so nice shooting the breeze with you Mel and totally theadjacking CG's thread with our musings.

No, because my situation was a little different. He was not addicted, he just had a low character.

But with others here that are addicted, I do have empathy, but I have NO sympathy and ZERO tolerance for their bullcrap because I can SEE what they are trying to pull. I have noticed some other recovered alcoholics have this same lack of tolerance. I think the reason is because we KNOW we are being bullsh*tted and that is insulting. Especially when it is coming from someone who is not even clever about it.

I absolutely understand and emphatize with this aspect of the adulterers plight! This is why I often say that even GOOD PEOPLE get sucked into affairs.

Thanks for the chat, CV55!

~CV/Mel

CV, Good to see you again, unfortunately Qetuo and I are quite a mess as a couple, much better since we last talked, but off course none the less and struggling.

Your guesses about our MC not wanting me here were all true, and she did comment that for me to see all the pain on this site would not allow us as a couple to move forward, and that this sight helped me dwell in the past and on the A. At a point she suggested that we were finished counseling, and has been quite some time now that we have seen a MC. At the time she recommended we stop MC, I was still triggering on a weekly basis. She told me it was time I move on and not dwell as much on the A. [censored] I was still asking Qetuo questions that remained unresolved for me? W and I worked thru this as best we knew how, but we do not have all the knowledge or skills, which is why we were at the brink of separation last night despite the love I know we have for each other.

I love this woman so deeply and profoundly, that despite all the pain and all the uncertainty that I still harbored, I understood from our MC that I had to put it all past us, so I swallowed it from that point on and dealt with it however I could for the last six months or so. Occasionally I would talk to W about it when it became too overwhelming. At one point about 3-4 months ago we went to see our MC because it became too much for us both. I felt invalidated and our visit was useless, I was basically told I should be over it. For the most part I think I have come to terms with the A, I’ll never accept it, but I’ve forgiven.

I think when we were not practicing the MB principles or similar principles we slowly fell back into many of the old habits. We started to think we could spend time together (not necessarily one-on-one quality time) and not have to worry about recovery anymore, but just concentrate on the M. It took awhile for this to affect all the hard work we did from D-Day, but eventually our quality time together has lessened due to family demands, work, grand kids and the house. Dating became less of a priority even though we were still doing everything together. We thought that would suffice. We need to find a good MC, continue the education, learn the correct principles and adapt them to our M. I think the only principle our MC taught us was caring and sharing, she understood many of the principles W and I brought from here or the books we read, but she offered us very little. We had to push her for techniques and exercises that would help us with communication skills that we both identified to her as lacking.

Alright – I’m rambling here, and need to do what they pay me to do. More tonight.

C.G.