Hey, all. I'd appreciate any info, stories, examples having to do with Extraordinary Precautions. I saw some vague reference in another post about an "EP Plan" -anybody know anything about that?

I've already been doing some things, other than the minimal cut off all contact with past OMs, I mean. I don't use chat programs, absolutely no flirting - I'm not the sort of person who can just flirt. I can see that now. I thought at first I should not have any male friends - but then I realized I do have male friends that I have absolutely no attraction to but they are different from male "friends" I got into trouble with before. There are different levels of friendship and those normally associated with "best friend" - like frequent and long conversations, confiding in each other, sharing secrets - that sort of friendship I just can't do with a man and have it be platonic. My EN for conversation is too high for that sort of thing, I think. (As for my truly platonic, more casual friends - because it's a more casual friendship there's never any occasion for being alone with them anyway.)

Plus I try to tell my husband everything now, even when I just ran into someone I dated briefly long before we were married - I told him about that, even though there wasn't much to tell. And I've made no effort to "be friends" with this person. I'm polite when I see him (he's friends with my sister) but that's it, plus my sister's always there anyway. And I tell my husband about it each and every time, even though it's really awkward because he usually says nothing in response (except the first time but I actually had to ask him - are you okay with that? to get a response.)

Is a plan for EP just something you do or do you discuss it with your spouse? I know ordinarily the BS wants all sorts of answers to all sorts of questions, but my husband doesn't want me "pulling scabs off old wounds."

Apharesis

In our case, Squid quit her post as the number one female official in her sport in our country.
She stopped attending any sporting events that were not at her own club.
Dropped all unchaperoned contact with male friends.

in order to maintain NC and to rebuild my trust.

BTW you can't have unchaperoned male friends if you want a healthy marriage. You just can't.

Bob is right, there should be no contact with members of the opposite sex unless your H is there. i called Dr Harley once and asked him about serial cheaters. Here is the thread: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1638028&fpart=2

Ever see the movie "When Harry Met Sally?"

The famous quote from 2 decades ago still applies:

"A man and a woman can never be good friends. Sally counters, that's ridiculous, why not? Harry states so simply; BECAUSE THE SEX THING WILL ALWAYS GET IN THE WAY!!!!

How true........

All Blessings,
Jerry

Well I hardly ever see my friends and when I do it's a group situation and my husband is always there. I'm in email contact with one friend because we're involved in a (long distance) project and sometimes my husband participates as well. I have no feelings of attraction for this person, though, maybe because the focus is on the project itself, not on each other.

I did start work recently, but my bosses and coworkers are mostly women and it's a pretty solitary, independent form of work anyway.

Lately I've been missing the excitement of meeting "someone new" but I keep telling myself that it's just because my husband is away right now so we haven't really yet had a chance to start a real recovery. I just have to hang on until December and then spend as much time with my husband as I can. And we really have to make sure not to get physically separated again. I don't deal with being alone that well at all. It's hard enough on ordinary married people but an even worse mistake for someone like me, I think.

Hey Jerry,

I hope you are well my friend. I think the above is true for people with boundary problems. I have maintained strictly platonic opposite sex friendships for 25+ years. I think some people can handle it while others cannot.

Be well,

MEDC

Hey MEDC,

Hope all is well with you also.
I take my meds and behave like a sane animal .

Btw, I'm routing for you and ? on the sidlines .

All Blessings,
Jerry

PS: Geography is really not that difficult to negotiate!

shinethrough,

LOL! Yeah I think that quote is true for a lot of people. It's hard to admit when it's true for you, though, because then people think you're immature. But I can't worry about what "people" think - except for one person and that's my husband.

What about female friends? I'm always suspicious that something is going on with women that prefer male friends. Like there is an undercurrent to the friendship.

Oh, I don't need to worry about that. I'm only wired one way.

If my W told me this, I think I'd lose it completely. "Meeting someone new" should make you feel guilt and disgust...not excitement.

Funny you should say that now as that is what I felt (guilt and disgust) when someone "old" (former EA) emailed me a couple days ago. Mostly, though, I was angry because I knew I'd have to tell my husband about it and it was all the former OM's fault (I told him not to contact me!) Anyway, I did tell my husband and asked him how he thinks I should handle it (more strongly worded NC letter or just delete?). He said as long as there's no chance of him stopping by to see me in person, just delete. So I did.

But when I said "the excitment of meeting someone new" I wasn't talking about the act of having an affair but what happens long before one starts - when the first feelings of attraction take hold but long before anything is done about it. But I guess sometimes you can get the same feeling from your spouse after a reconciliation or a long absence.

you are a WS and another affair waiting to happen.

mk,

You say that about every woman who has cheated on her husband because you think every such woman is your ex-wife. Time and time again I see you counsel BH's to divorce no matter who they are or what the BH actually wants. I think you are having some regrets about your decision to divorce, so you are trying to justify it by trying to convince everyone else that no WW can change.

Since making the decision to reform myself, (about a year ago) I have done absolutely nothing contrary to that goal. So I miss the feeling of infatuation - so what? I miss having more money than I do today, that doesn't mean I'm going to rob a bank. But I realize that people often choose to believe only what they want to believe so I'm not having this conversation with you again.

Well, I think more than a few FWW here would laugh at your first remark.

As far as regrets...I have none. If I wanted her back tomorrow, she would be here. I don't...life is too good without her.

I am just thankful to not be a "woman" that thinks like you....you think it is okay to miss the infatuation of meeting someone new....get a life and grow up.

I think that's ridiculous but that's only because I've never had a problem being friends, very good friends and even BEST friends with members of the opposite sex.

The only reason I didn't associate with them a lot while Gray and I were together was because HE didn't like it. That speaks more about him than me.

That is why I didn't have a problem with his mostly FEMALE friends. Well, I was wrong. But not about ME. About HIM.

Geez, he even got jealous when I went to San Antonio with my Mom to see a friend in a base hospital because he almost died and a horrific crash and a cement mixer rolled over him!!

Poor guy was barely alive and Gray was jealous!! I couldn't even talk to him about it! And this guy was a childhood friend. We used to ride horses together and hang out. His sister was in our crowd, too.

Anyway, the guy lived, thank goodness. He can't walk, though. But he's ALIVE and that's what matters.

Not meaning this as a 2X4 at all, but I just felt the need to comment.

If my FWH ever told me that he was missing the excitement of meeting someone new, I would be devastated. Really. I do not honestly know if I could take the chance to stay with him.

He had an A because he has VERY fuzzy boundaries(and I think he may FINALLY be understanding this) and to him, feeling excited about meeting someone new is EXTREMELY dangerous. This is EXACTLY how his A started. It was SO MUCH FUN to meet someone new and different. Nothing was going to happen. He was just going to enjoy the feeling. Needless to say, that is not what happened.

Just last night we had a discussion about this and I asked him to put those energies into OUR relationship. He seemed to really get this for the first time ever.

Again, no 2X4 intended. I just think that many BSs would feel cut to their very cores if their FWS said this.

WH2LE

As I've read in some threads, advice from newbies is not normally a good call (what do newbies know?!). This is not intended as 'advice'. It is intended to be thoughts from one FWW to another FWW.

The excitement of meeting someone new? I'm blown away here. Was it exciting to sneak around, to act like you were less than human, not taking into consideration how this betrayal would devestate your spouse, your life, your world. The excitement of meeting someone new has brought you here, trying to repair the damage, trying to rebuild trust, love. Hearing about that excitement here brings a knot to my stomach...that excitement destroyed something very real and with a little luck you and I will be able to build something new, something better with our BH.

I would venture to guess that you are a bit of a thrill seeker - no harm in that - I'm a bit of thrill seeker too. Take your need for excitement some place else. Skydiving? Learn to fly a plane, hey these are things you can do with your spouse. Or maybe try a small modification to your excitment seeking. Try golf. It took me years, I mean YEARS to enjoy golf. I'm still not good but I see it for what it is, a chance to enjoy time with others, in competition against myself and a place to relax and realize that I don't need constant excitement to enjoy life. Relaxation is good.

Oh, last excitement to try - eat the worm after downing a few shots at home. See what that can do to add some excitement with your hubby.

Again, not judging.

Extraordinary precautions (EPs) are a critical part of the MB program. These are the way a FWS begins to show care and protection for their marriage. Without these, there is no protection from another affair. And the BS should recognize that a lack of these EPs written out and lived out indicates the FWS is still uncommitted to doing everything it takes to fully recover.

Therefore, I highly recommend you read the book "Falling in Love, Staying in Love" by Dr. H. This outlines all of the principles of the MB program.

I personally think that you still feel you are entitled to these types of dangerous relationships and are self-centered enough to continue them.

Read everything you can about protection and care that the Harley's have to offer. And then maybe we can begin to have some sane dialog on this issue.

I will try to post my list of EPs tomorrow.

Below, I copied over my list of EP's. I don't know if these will help you or not? I guess it just depends upon how serious you are.

Ya know, the MB way is a narrow path, and it's obvious to me that you are not on that path yet. I pray you make the decision to get on the path and do all the work necessary. ALWAYS! To recover and stay recovered.
IMO, Ya can't pick and choose what you want to do and have any long term success. (just my .02)

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Extraordinary Precautions:

a) I am responsible to protect my wife at all times.
b) I will give full access of all my business records to my wife.
c) I will agree to give all passwords, account codes business and personal to my wife.
d) I will not put myself in an advice giver role with another woman, unless my wife is present and has given her prior approval.
e) I will defer to my wife as the advice giver when it involves another woman, unless she specifically calls on me.
f) I will not spend any time with another woman that my wife is not present.
g) I will allow only my wife to hear my problems or concerns.
h) I will not share my infirmities with another woman.
i) I will allow my wife to be my exclusive care giver, unless she specifically calls on someone else to help her.
j) I will defer to my wife in all matters of charity and outreach, with her being the sole point of contact when caring for women.
k) I will not teach martial arts to another woman without my wife being present and having enthusiastic agreement about such training in advance.
l) I will openly share my daily business schedule with my wife.
m) At any time she requests, I will trade cell phones with my wife for the time she deems necessary.
n) I will allow only men to provide essential care, such as Doctors appointments, hair cuts, massages, individual counseling, etc.
o) I will always defer to my wife regarding any outside activity and will agree to eliminate any activity she feels is interfering in our relationship or the relationships of our children.
p) I will not travel out of town for business or personal reasons without the company of my wife.