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Originally Posted by Aphaeresis
Melody,

That's bs. Adultery doesn't make you fear for your life. People can walk away from a cheating spouse without risking their lives.

bullcrap, no one deserves to be abused. People have a right to know the truth about their own lives. Folks don't have an entitlement to ABUSE anyone and then lie about it.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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I would also point out that ADULTERY is about the WORST abuse, short of killing the spouse, that one can inflict on a person. It is a far worse violation than physical assault and right up there with RAPE. Lying to avoid consequences just compounds the crime.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by Aphaeresis
Melody,

That's bs. Adultery doesn't make you fear for your life. People can walk away from a cheating spouse without risking their lives. A lot of people try walking away from an abusive spouse and end up dead. Why should we have any more sympathy for an abusive spouse who gets cheated on than a cheating spouse who gets cheated on? If you hit your spouse, you've broken your marriage vows, period. Such a person, until they get help, has no more right to expect fidelity than a cheating spouse.

So what you are saying is that some people DESERVE abuse. It's the old, if he wouldn't have..., she wouldn't have abused him. We reject such arguments when men try to use them to blame shift out of their physical abuse. For such an arguement to remain valid, we need to reject it in ALL cases, not just in the cases of physical abuse. If a wife is emotionally or verbally abusive, such as an affair, we need to reject such blame shifting every time.

Otherwise, why should we have sympathy for anyone who is abused, using your logic. Chances are any one who has been abused has also abused someone, meaning they deserve the abuse they got.

Now I don't believe the above, but those who say that abusers deserve the infidelity or should not expect fidelity are in essence saying that abuse is earned and valid in some cases. Like I said, the only, if he/she didn't do.... I wouldn't have done ....

REJECTED

I don't think you will find too many who will argue that anyone ever deserves to be abused, regardless what they have done to others.

Affairs are emotional abuse, and no one, not even an abuser deserves to be abused, period.

Last edited by Enlighted_Ex; 05/10/08 11:30 AM.
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Wow!

Quote
Why should we have any more sympathy for an abusive spouse who gets cheated on than a cheating spouse who gets cheated on?


Perhaps we can challenge ourselves to be sympathetic to people who are stuck in life, hurting others and being hurt themselves. That's how I felt when I reached out to YOU when you started posting on MB.

Pep


Last edited by Pepperband; 05/10/08 11:33 AM.
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Originally Posted by Enlighted_Ex
So why should we have sympathy for anyone who is abused, using your logic. Chances are any one who has been abused has also abused someone, meaning they deserve the abuse they got.

Using her logic, then the wayward wife in this scenario DESERVES to be abused too.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Mel - I love ya - but we disagree. I have no way of knowing what this woman truly knows about her safety. Most often the threat of violence with exposure is fog talk. But in some, - example - one who doesn't post here anymore - it was very very real.

And in my mother and father's case - well - let's just say, I personally know the trauma of witnessing BOTH the violence and the adultery. One forever deprived me of a true sense of safety, and the other deprived me of childhood innocence. The pain for each is different and not equal. Both very bad. I have prayed to see this through spiritual eyes and know that Jesus alone is the only one who can heal the harm both did. But while Mom knows what she did wrong, I don't know that my father will ever fathom how badly he hurt his children through his temper - directly and indirectly. At least he won't without help from God.

I love them both. They are just now beginning to learn how much they love each other - after a lifetime of hard time. At the end.


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Originally Posted by KaylaAndy
Mel - I love ya - but we disagree. I have no way of knowing what this woman truly knows about her safety. Most often the threat of violence with exposure is fog talk. But in some, - example - one who doesn't post here anymore - it was very very real.

I suspect she would know better than either of us, though. She knows him better than we do. The threat of violence exists in EACH AND EVERY case. We just have no way of knowing. More often than not, it never comes to that. Thankfully..



"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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There are avenue's to deal with abusive situation's.

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Quote
If you hit your spouse, you've broken your marriage vows, period. Such a person, until they get help, has no more right to expect fidelity than a cheating spouse.

Aphaeresis - Ahhhh....then what your philosophy seems to be is:


"IF 'A', THEN 'B'."


We are back to "personal Standards," what they are and why should someone choose a given set of Standards for themselves.

You seem to arguing for a very "humanistic" sort of "standard" when someone's actions are "determined" by what someone else does.

The issue is not what the "offender" expects, it is an issue of personal Standards that the "offended" person has for themselves as well as their own "Boundaries"('if you do this, I will do thusly').

Spousal abuse is, imho, "marital unfaithfulness," but the "question" is "by whose standards is 'unfaithfulness' to be judged?"

This is the issue of morality and WHO determines what "morality" is and what "immorality" is?

You are "dancing on the head" of your own viewpoint, and then applying that viewpoint to someone else and/or to someone else's situation. By what "universal standard" should someone make such a judgment that the Standards "they" embrace for themselves should apply to anyone else?

For example: consider two apparently differing views;

1. "Spare the rod and spoil the child."

2. "If you spank me, Mommy or Daddy, I can call the Police and have you arrested for 'child abuse.'"


Or consider this "standard," "Do not return evil for evil."

How about "Karma?"

How about "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."


Abuse of any sort is wrong, according to the standards that I have accepted, given by the only true Judge of all behavior.

The question seems to be "what responsive action is 'right' for a person receiving abuse and what actions are plainly 'wrong'?"

Avoiding "consequences" for our actions seems to be part of the desired "foggyness" of the "confession" issue.


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IMHO, honesty is ALWAYS the best option. BUT, I do NOT think that in a TRULY physically abusive situation that the abuser is do anything other than jail time. A spouse...wayward or not..should do everything they can to get away from an abuser...for good. I think a major issue here is that women frequently play the abuse card...and I am certain that waywards would play it even more...when no actual abuse occurs.

Dr. H SHOULD encourage people to be safe...it is much more important than a marriage. Abusers have broken their vows and have no rights in a marriage IMHO. They have broken their vows in a way that is just as bad (if not worse) than adultery. It doesn't matter who the abuser is...female or male...they both are dangers that need to be protected against.

If a WS is to tell an abusive BS what has happened...it should occur AFTER the TRULY abused has found safety.

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Spite and might had a fight, but might could not win, for spite had started the fight before might even had a clue there was a fight.

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