Cat, it makes me think of the expression, "Depression is anger turned inward." I wish that we lived in the same neighborhood so we could do something fun together like going for a walk, for a swim, to the gym, for a cup of coffee. What do you think about rewarding yourself with something fun today?

eo, I just sent an email to my H apologizing for being such a jerk yesterday. I spent the whole day feeling sorry for myself, and he didn't deserve that. And yeah, it's all anger at myself, not him. He can't fix what he doesn't know about.

I did take myself out for Mexican food today. So there, diet!

Cat, I hope you don't think that I was trying to point fingers. I don't think that you're a jerk at all. I'm so grateful to you and jayne and LA for being with me last week when I was so jumpy and worried.

I am saying that I am concerned about you, hon, and want to see you doing kind things for yourself. A wise woman told me that what we allow ourselves to do to others, we do to ourselves. What we allow ourselves to do to ourselves, we do to others. I think it goes the other way, too. What we do for ourselves, we will do for others, and what we do for others, we will do for ourselves. I think that if you can forgive and accept yourself for yesterday, that it will help you find forgiveness and acceptance for your H. Or if you find this for your H, then you will find it for yourself. We can upward spiral just as much as we can spiral down.

Cat, are you a spiritual person? What do you do to find spiritual connection? There is a kind of warm sense of not being alone, of being protected, that seems like it's missing? It helped me so much that day I think a month or two ago that you told me that whatever I did or did not do that day, that I'd be okay.

Cat,

I know I have never posted directly to you before, but I have found your posts to be informative, interesting and supportive. I have been especially impressed with your posts to KLD. I am sorry you find yourself in the circumstances you are in.

My FWH sounds something like yours. No matter what I ask, or how I ask it, he picks and chooses what he will do in terms of meeting MY ENs. sigh. Happened again on the way to work. I feel he crossed a boundary line in terms of a conversation with a woman. He called me controlling. I am quite sure I was not.

I think you are an amazing and strong woman. I do not think I have EVER read anything by you that I could call whining or B****Y.

Happy to be in your company,
WH2LE

Cat,

I was harsh because it's going to take a 2x4 to wake you up and take a stand. My point is to quit complaining to everyone else but your husband and tell him how you feel in a way he'll understand.

We, as men, need 2x4s as well.

You sit him down and you tell him, "H, listen to me. I'm sitting you down and calmly explaining this to you so you can understand that I'm serious. I'm not happy right now and there are things you are doing that drive me crazy and really uspet me. I'm afraid if this continues it will lead to something serious."

So then see if he listens.

You absolutely should be uspet that you didn't go see your family.

Now beating yourself up resolves nothing. Your family is your family and they will be there for you no matter what.

Don't let him talk you out of anything. You must stand your ground and say, "I want to see my family."

You see, standing up for yourself doesn't mean you have to be mean. You simply state your desires calmly and that's all you have to do.

pom, I totally agree with you...but I literally would do just about everything in my power to not say a negative thing to another person. I don't know what happened to me as a kid to make me this way, but I get physically ill just to have to tell someone I won't do what they want, or that I am unhappy with them. I guess it's kind of like one of those obsessive compulsive people who can't control the things they do...only I can't control NOT doing things that will possibly make people not like me.

It's like I was put in swim lessons as a child, though I was afraid of water. The teacher made us jump off the diving board, I was so hysterical that I jumped as close to the edge of the pool as I could get and, you guessed it, hit my chin on the side on the way down; still have the scar. But to this day, I will get on a diving board, walk to the end of it, bend my knees, lean over, try to push myself far enough over so I'll at least fall in, and jump back before I can do it.

I'm so very aware of what I need to say. I go over them in my head. And when I see him, I turn into jelly. I just can't say it. Long story, but I hear you and I want to do what you say; I just have a huge wall to climb over first.

fwiw, I knew I was sounding petty, but I put myself out there to show aw3 what goes on in the minds of an unhappy wife, so he might be able to understand a little more why she left.

I appreciate the concern. Maybe some day I'll like myself enough to do what you suggest. As it is, I'm taking baby steps to get there, and practicing MB when I can. Some days are just worse than others.

eo, I am not spiritual. I hesitate to say that here for fear of getting blasted, but the truth is I never knew religion until my teen years, so I'm currently agnostic, though I'm a practicing Lutheran for my daughter's sake, so she will grow up with religion. I know that would help, but I'm not there yet.

aw cat..... *hugs*

I'm really sorry you chose not to go on that trip after all. I was thinking a trip with your D would sure be good for you.

Did I miss the post where you decided not to go? Or did you chicken out at the last minute? Last I remember, I thought you were gonna look into Amtrak.

Like ears, I'm concerned about you. I don't know what's best, hugs or something to shake you up.

Do you want to talk more about why you chose not to go?

No, H had told me it was the same weekend as us having to be in Dallas, so I didn't book it, and then he realized Dallas was the next week, so I tried to book it when I found out, I told H I was going to, but the plane tickets had doubled, and I just couldn't come up with $1200, plus the expenses there, and after finding out H is $80,000 in debt, I just couldn't justify him charging it. So I'm really just mad at myself that I never saved up money, dredged up so much debt of my own on top of his, that I can't handle something as simple as this on my own.

btw, Amtrak was about $1000 per person and took 3 days to get there! No wonder they're barely around any more.

oooooohhhhhhh...

It may not be the right response, but I would be so darn mad at myself *and* him right now! Him for saying it was the same weekend as Dallas. Myself for believing him.

Is there any chance that he was consciously or unconsciously saying that to keep you from going?

Cat, Have you guys made any decisions on how to attack the debt issue? I know H is a real avoider on this subject, but have you made decisions about how you will deal with this on your own if he won't get on board?

I know the baby steps are hard ones to take and that you have struggled to get where you are right now. It's not easy to decide that you're going to stop worrying about everyone else before you take care of yourself. You deserve the care for yourself and I believe you'll get there. When you do, you'll be better equipped to stand up to H to get your life issues and M issues resolved.

Cat, you need an assertive therapist. I have a great one who gives me the 2x4 regularly and it has been great. I recommend that because they can really help. But there are a lot of crappy ones out there, so you have to shop around a bit.

pom, I will look into that.

KLD, at urging here, I signed up at daveramsey.com and have started that program, which should help some. I also am looking for a financial counselor I can get H on board for. If he finds someone with authority that he doesn't clash with, he will listen to that person. So that's my best bet. We've talked more about CCCS and he refuses to do it. Once I get through with the taxes, I will tackle that next. I also have been talking to him about paying bills online, so we can at least start getting his bills paid on time and stop having phone payment charges. I know I shouldn't take on more of his burden, but I'm willing to take over paying his bills at least for now, if it will get us out of this.

H did talk to me this morning about going to the CPA to turn in our taxes, said he wants to go - which is a huge thing for him - so I'm setting up an appointment for 2 weeks from now, to turn in all 3 years. Once that's done, it will be such a huge weight off my back, I think my whole disposition will turn around.

Plus I'm going to doctor tomorrow to get my ADs adjusted.

I'm glad you signed up on daveramsey! I have some stuff I've used, I actually got it from my neighbor who goes to my church. Would you like me to send it to you?

I'm also glad you're seeing about adjusting ADs, and that there's an end in sight for the taxes. I bet in two weeks things look a lot brighter.

Yeah, I have to adjust them; he doubled my dosage of wellbutrin, but I started having panic attacks, so I had to go back to half the dose. I really think I need a combination like I had before.

If you're around, I'll post my email for a few minutes, if you want to send me that stuff, and I can give you my address. Let me know. And thanks for the offer.

I'm around right now, I'll watch and let you know as soon as I've got it.

Ok, thanks.
deleted

Got it!

Cat, I'm so glad that H seems to be coming around at least a little. Maybe next he will actually want to get involved in discussing your issues and making joint decisions. I truly hope things get easier to handle as you start getting some of these things done. I think Jayne is right that in 2 weeks or so you'll feel like a new person.

As for taking on paying your H's bills for him, I'm not so sure I think this is a bad thing. I do get that he needs to own his stuff - no doubt about that. But you also need to get a sense of security in knowing that your bills are getting paid on time and that you're not adding to your debt by incurring late fees. I think if you want to take the responsibility of the actual sitting down to make the payments, then that's no big deal. The big deal comes when you don't communicate about what you're doing and what the bottom line is. If you end up taking all the responsibility for the whole problem (not just the action of writing checks or paying online) then you're going backwards instead of forwards. The key to this is going to be standing up and making sure H hears what is happening and agreeing on how money is allocated to paying those bills.

I'm glad you're doing Dave Ramsey, too. I haven't done it, but I've heard nothing but good things about it from others. I've listened to him on the radio a few times and he has some good logic that applies to anyone.

I'm glad you're going to make changes to your ADs. I hope that will also make a difference for you. Cat, I see you doing so many things to make your life and M better. I know it seems like slow progress to you and to others who have been involved in your post. If I were in your shoes I'd want immediate change - for Pete's sake, in MY shoes I want immediate change and it just doesn't work that way. You've been married for 30 years or so and this situation didn't just show up on your doorstep one dismal winter morning. It happened over time. So, dealing with it over time is how you'll have to get it fixed. The great news is that even though it took 30 years to get here you won't have to wait 30 years to get straightened out if you keep at it steadily and move quicker when you can. I see good things for you ahead - and soon!

Thank you for the support, KLD. And for telling me it's ok to pay his bills for him. He has never looked at a bank statement in his life. But when we were running around Sunday trying to find a place to pay his utility bills (already a day late), I commented that this is why I pay all my bills online now. And I could tell he actually listened. I know he respects me and thinks I'm smart. So I think if I just start taking over such things, he'll actually be grateful. But I still want to find a live human to be responsible over our stuff; finding one is harder than I thought. Does anyone here use someone like that? We have a CPA for taxes, but she's the person who made him mad by telling him he should have paid off his bills last year instead of investing the money, so I don't think he'll listen to her any more.

Anyway, like you said, any progress is good progress.

I'm at the point in daveramsey where I can't move forward until I save up $1000. So I'm looking at stuff this week that I can sell on ebay.