Ok my wife and I both cheated on each other. I found out about her and then ended up doing the same stupid thing. There was a time when we would fight about who was worse in what we did. Basically we finally realized it was pointless, we both hurt each other. There are still times though when one of may trigger or just start thinking too hard about the past. I hate when that happens. Get angry, feel guilty, remorse, betrayed all at once, I know we both get that at times.

A couple weeks ago I was doing some laundry and found another thong belonging to my 15 yr daughter. Now I had already told her twice I did not ever want to see another one in our house. I just don't understand why a 15 yr old girl needs to wear thongs. My daughter and her friends will buy these d@mn things and then sneak them. Well my wife was sitting there listening to me lecturing our daughter when my daughter blurts, "But Mommy has bought them for me too, I don't see what the big deal is"

So later when we're alone my wife tells me I just don't like my daughter wearing thongs because "that is what your &%$!@#$*&65etc etc etc wore when she took pictures for you!"

She then brought up a strange bra that she once found in the house and she is convinced the OW left it there. I know she didn't because she never took her clothes off there. My wife thinks I'm lying about that, but I'm not. The stuff I've admitted to, I don't see why she would think I would lie about it, but she says either I am lying or the OW left it there w/o me knowing to taunt her. I truly don't think that happened either, but if I say so she then says I am taking up for this OW again which I'm not. I don't know where the bra came from, I think it was her friend's who stayed with us for a while.

Ok so after a day or two of the usual bad bh/ws/whatever vibes she emails me and says she sorry and that "she will enforce my "no thong rule" if that is what I want. I mean really. It irks me typing this. Why does a 15 yr old girl need to wear thongs??

Then we find out Sunday night that my daughter snuck out of house and went joy riding for about 3 hours with a couple of her friends, one of which snuck daddy's car out for the deed. So while we are questioning daughter, I asked her where they picked her up and she said "At the stop sign" at the end of our street..

At that point I just sat there as my wife turned from our daughter and glared at me. See, once during my affair I walked down to that stop sign and OW picked me up.

I can understand the triggers, but I am having a hard time trying to understand why my wife is doing this. I mean she bought lingerie to wear with OM. She went to spend weekends with him while daughter and I stayed home thinking she was with her friend(the one that stayed with us for a while and helped cover her affair for her)

Are there other people here who have been both bs and ws? This emotional seesaw between guilt and anger seems to pop up for both of us, but I really don't think it's fair of her to rub my affair in my face when I'm trying to deal with my teenage daughter.

Things can go good for months and then something like this will happen or worse. Like I just recently found out that back while I was away(I left home for about a month) that my wife had started talking to a male coworker who's wife is in Afghanistan and they discussed their marital issues with each other and the problems they had with us and that my wife even suggested that the two of them should "hook up" He declined. She told me this one night out of the blue. She tells me not to worry because I was with the OW and since she thought I was never coming back it was ok to "hook up" but now that I'm home she won't talk to him anymore.

I don't even know how to explain how that makes me feel.

I think it is time for you to drop the expectation that things in your marriage ought to be "fair".

NOTHING in your situation is "fair".

Saying "It's not fair." is not stepping up to the plate.

Next time your W "rubs something" in your face, ask if you can hold her. Tell her you realize that her pain in great, and ask if you can hold her until the pain passes.

Pep

PS

I did not allow our DD to wear a thong until she was 18.

Allow your DD to see you support and love your wife, even when it is difficult to do so.

Think of it as a very special gift you give your DD - her parents struggling to stay supportive of each other when things are tough.

YOU step up and keep stepping up - fair or unfair - do it !

Pep

I try my best Pepperband. I really do. Lots of times I can just shake it off. I feel like I lost my right to feel like a BS, but I still feel it creep in some here and there. The thing with the guy that works in her building, that really gets to me knowing she will talk to him sooner or later again. I don't believe she would try anything, but who knows when she is angry and resentful about me. Then what can I do anyway? It's not like I can demand she find another job since I was WS when she thought we were recovering from her own affair.

She also has told me many times I am the reason she had her affair, but I had my own on my own and it had nothing to do with her, that she had "recommitted" herself to the marriage after I found out.

She also believes my affair was worse because the OW told her she loved me. My wife said she never intended to leave me for OM and that there is a difference.

Maybe there is but it sure doesn't feel like it to me.

But I know what you mean about Fair. I just think maybe when it comes to our daughter she could leave our own mess out of decisions about her. I dunno. Have no one to talk to about it really, so typing it here helps

Did I say this?


No, you are entitled to feel what you feel when you feel it.

What I want to focus on is your behaviors and/or actions that are likely to help RECOVER your marriage.


Pep

I strongly urge both of you to call MB for marriage coaching/counseling.

Your marriage is like a person who has a serious health issue that could be cured with proper care and attention ... get the proper care.

Don't try to fix this marriage without counseling.

Pep

AC...I do not think it is reasonable to tell your 15 year old what type of underwear she can wear. It just seems silly to me. I would spend a lot more time trying to instill values in her...something that you and your wife seem to have come up short on.

You two need to get some more maturity in your marriage. Things that are going on are not reflective of two people that care about one another's feelings. Both of you is at fault. The level of fault really doesn't matter any longer. Either choose to heal and have a mature marriage based on mutual care...or get away from each other. Your daughter is already acting out in ways that should concern you. She is watching the two of you and learning that values are a waste of time.

Your wife can drop the excuses for her affair. SHE is the reason she had her affair.

No contact is non negotiable. Your wife will need to find another job since it is important that she NEVER see or speak to this man again.

I am hoping the affair was exposed to the OM's wife????

Hey there MEDC, maybe so, but after having to deal with drug and alcohol experimentations, late night sneaking out and joy riding and reading boys IM'ing her and wanting to _____ her, having her wearing frederick's of hollywood under her jeans just doesn't sit right with me. My buddy, who has teen son, says he only has to only worry about one weenie, I have to worry about them all.


I can't tell my wife to find another job, she has been with the government almost 20 years. It's her life. I mean I could *tell* her to get another job...

It might be "her life" but it's YOUR BOUNDARIES.

I'm sure you are right but I've shrunk my boundaries somewhat trying to make up for my own bad deeds I guess.

Thats not in the best interest of your marriage. It will greatly hinder recovery.

agedcadillac, its not about doing pennace for your crimes, but about doing the things necessary to RECOVER your marriage.

Dr. Harley in Coping with Infidelity: Part 2
How Should Affairs End?


Never see or communicate with a former lover

Once an affair is first revealed, whether it's discovered or admitted, the victimized spouse is usually in a state of shock. The first reaction is usually panic, but it's quickly followed by anger. Divorce and sometimes even murder are contemplated. But after some time passes (usually about three weeks), most couples decide that they will try to pull together and save their marriage.

The one having an affair is in no position to bargain, but he or she usually tries anyway. The bargaining effort usually boils down to somehow keeping the lover in the loop. You'd think that the unfaithful spouse would be so aware of his or her weaknesses, and so aware of the pain inflicted, that every effort would be made to avoid further contact with the lover as an act of thoughtfulness to the stunned spouse. But instead, the unfaithful spouse argues that the relationship was "only sexual" or was "emotional but not sexual" or some other peculiar description to prove that continued contact with the lover would be okay.

Most victimized spouses intuitively understand that all contact with a lover must end for life. Permanent separation not only helps prevent a renewal of the affair, but it is also a crucial gesture of consideration to someone who has been through he11. What victimized spouse would ever want to know that his or her spouse is seeing or communicating with a former lover at work or in some other activity?

In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure.

<snip>

We don't know if R.J. still sees his lover, but he says he has broken off all contact. In many cases where a person is still in town, that's hard to prove. But one thing's for sure, if he ever does see his lover, it will put him in a state of perpetual withdrawal from his addiction, and make the resolution of his marriage essentially impossible. In fact, one of the reasons he is not recovering after three months of separation may be that he is not being truthful about the separation.

Entire article at: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html

How to Survive an Affair chapter in HIS NEEDS, HER NEEDS
p. 177

...I have seen husbands build new and wonderful relationships with their wives but then go back to their lovers after five or six years of what appeared to be marital bliss. When I ask them why, they inevitably tell me they miss the woman terribly and still love her. At the same time they stoutly affirm they love their wives dearly and would not think of leaving them.

I believe a man like this has told the truth. He is hopelessly entangled and needs all the help possible to be kept away from his lover and stay faithful to his wife. I often recommend that a man once involved in an affair come in to see me every three to six months on an indefinite basis, just to talk about how things are going and to let me know how successfully he has stayed away from his lover. He must resign himself to a lifetime without her. HE MUST CERTAINLY NOT WORK WITH HIS FORMER LOVER AND SHOULD PROBABLY LIVE IN SOME OTHER CITY OR STATE. Even with those restrictions the desire for her company persists...

Lifechoice post on THE AFFAIR ADDICTION http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2048341&fpart=1

Quote:
He must resign himself to a lifetime without her. HE MUST CERTAINLY NOT WORK WITH HIS FORMER LOVER AND SHOULD PROBABLY LIVE IN SOME OTHER CITY OR STATE.


I can certainly attest to this. My situation is a prime example of what not to do. I kept myself stuck in withdrawal for over 2 years because I continued to work with my FOM. In these 2 years I had no desire to get back into the A, I just couldn't break free of my addiction.

After I ended the A I learned about the addiction part of it and agreed it was a huge part of it. The scary part of the addiction is during the 2 years FOM and I worked together I didn't even realize how much I was still addicted to him. We did our best to remain professional, but the addiction was still there and kept me very stuck. I couldn't get over certain aspects of the A, but couldn't figure out why. (duh). I thought I had a good handle on it, but in all reality I didn't. It wasn't until after FOM left our employer and moved out of town that I finally could get through withdrawal. I should also add it was this bad for me and I only worked about 6 days a month. I can only imagine it would be much worse for someone who works with the AP on a full-time basis.

Now every time I read where AP's are still working together I just cringe. I wasted 2 years of my time in withdrawal and at the same time for one of the years trying to rebuild my marriage. Talk about a lot of mental anguish and conflict.

My advice to everyone from a BTDT POV, a WS needs to get as far away from the AP as they can.

LC

Hi Melody. Oh I've read that many times.

But I honestly believe our marriage recovery would be more hindered by me demanding she leave her career and retirement benefits because I cannot either trust her or will not allow myself to believe people can change.

She was being honest with me by telling me about it because I would have never known or guessed.

I could quit my job today and find another one in the same field within a week if I had to, and I would if the affair happened at work. It wouldn't make marital sense not to do so.

My wife, the way I see it, was hurt by me at the time and I made her vulnerable. If I don't become a lowlife cheating husband ever again(and Lordy no I never ever will) then I shouldn't have to worry about that. If she does cheat again after all of this I don't think the job would be what stopped her.

I am confused. Did she have an affair with someone she works with or TRY to have an affair with someone she works with? In my mind, that makes a difference in terms of jobs.

Anyway, I remember back in another life, I was working at this company where one of the ladies who also worked there found a set of panties in her husband's luggage when he returned from a trip. Fess up time revealed his affair. Seems the, er "Lady" with whom he was doing the deed planted the evidence.

The betrayed wife looked around to see if she could get even and started coming on to me. I wasn't interested but was too polite to be as blunt as I should have been and I surely didn't mention it to my then spouse. Commissions represented a significant part of my income and said female was in charge. Well, and it was kinda flattering in a sick sorta way. Anywho, a company picnic later, my then wife and I are driving home and she looks at me and says out of the blue, "Don't you dare f*** that slut."

Yeeeouch, bunch of lessons there, ones I took to heart. Guess what I learned helped me keep my fly zipped over the years. Talk about female antennas. . .

The situation you are in needs a professional to help the two of you to sort out things. Please, please call the Harleys. You need coaching, not counseling and you need it now.

Oh, and on the sneaking out bit, my wife says that she used to do it as a teenager. Nothing good happened. She wants me to hard wire alarms and nail windows shut to preclude similar activities when our daughter gets to that age, which is coming in a year or two. A fifteen year old female full of hormones and bad judgement is trouble looking to happen especially when allowed to dress "sexy."

Larry

She didn't have her affair at workplace, she went to online dating service and met someone who lived in a nearby city. This happened three years ago. She did tell me that she pretty much offered herself to a man that works in same building with her during the time I was out with OW after they confided in each other of their marital woes. She said she suggested they "get physical" but he told her he couldnt do that so I guess he has more morals than either my wife or I, eh MEDC?


PS: Larry, I have thought about using nails in the window lol

ac, that is not the same as having an affair, though. Like Larry said, it does make a big difference. She never had an affair with this guy.

Did she actually have an affair with someone else?

It does not happen often, but I will disagree with Mel here. If your wife offered herself to another man at work, I do think an affair occurred. The man not have done one single thing wrong...but your wife sure did.

Liken it to trying to hire a hit man to kill your spouse. Even though you were not successful, you still have attempted murder.

I would say that NC is in order.

I edited before you quoted me because I didn't want MEDC thinking I meant he had low morals

Yes Melody she had an affair. She created an account "married woman looking for friend" type thing and spent roughly 6 months spending weekends with him. It really hit me hard when I found out because of the way I found out is she was trying to meet another stranger and was telling him about first OM and how discretion was so important. She even commented gleefully about the picture of his privates he had included in the email which she left open on taskbar by accident while she was out in den blow drying her hair getting ready to go out with friends to the same bar she was mentioning in email to the guy as a possible meeting place.

See, I really didn't have to type all that info, I just feel like I need to validate myself even after I cheated myself. Even after I sat down with OW's husband and saw the pain in his eyes which was my fault.

Don't "think" about nailing the windows shut, ha, ha, ha, just do it, and alarm the doors as well. You are in CHARGE of your teenager until they are of age and move out. That is why you are called a "Parent." Your judgement trumps their lack.

The two of you need to quit beating each other up. You need to call the Harleys. If you both won't agree, then one of you needs to do it. If neither of you want to, why the heck not?

Marriage and relationships are complex critters. Sometimes you need a professional to help sort things out. Frankly, things are a bit more simple for most guys. Things are NOT simple for females, ever. So make the call, please. One of the Harleys can likely explain your wife so you can better understand her and for sure, one of the Harleys can explain you to your wife even though your wife thinks she understands you as it is and probably doesn't. . .

Larry