I moved this over from another thread I started and then realized that it was too confusing (Thanks, Queenie.) (maybe I'm just too confused...)

Anyway, there were a few replies that I didn't want to lose track of so I cut and pasted the whole thread here. I will delete the other one.

Sorry, I'm kind of a mess right now:-(


I have been close to losing my business for several months due in large part to my inability to stay focused and do what I needed to do.

Well, I just landed a contract that will at least for the time being, save my practice and will allow me to keep chugging along with solid prospects for the future. So I am relieved. That was another huge issue ILMH and I have been dealing with along with the rest of this cr*p. So professionally speaking, I live to fight another day.

What should be joy over this is tempered by the pain and hopelessness I feel over my once true love. I posted this on another thread in response to the a question about the difference in our ages (12yrs). It, like many of my posts seems to have killed the thread, so I thought I'd start another to see if it has any legs or if anyone has some kind words or thoughts for me. I could really use it...

Here goes:
Yes, she was young when we first met, but ours was a long and honorable courtship. We took our time, and the age thing never was an issue for us. Our love and commitment to each other was truly a pure and righteous bond. Ours really was an absolute fairytale romance. It continued as such for over 8 years. I thought it was still that way, but have come to find out that she for some reason withdrew and shut me out. It was then that she decided that she wanted to "feel connected" with someone else. The rest as they say is history.

This is part of what pains me so. That she did not fall unknowingly into this. She put herself out there, and when this Dbag picked up on her signals, she was off with aboandon and wanton disregard for everything in her life that I thought she held sacred, even our young son for G*D sakes.

She didn't just end up in the fog by happenstance, she chose it with sobriety and malice. I will never understand how she came to be so hurtful, or what I possibly did to deserve this most horrendus of all betrayals. She knew at the time it became physical, that I was trying to protect her. From him and herself, but she chose to proceed to F-ing him nonetheless.

It is incomprehensible to me. Now she tells me she loves me, that she will never do this again, but forgive me if that rings hollow for me at this point.

I will try to make the best of the situation and I hope that one day I will FEEL close to her again, but today, this morning, it seems unlikely...
_________________________
BS (me) : 40yo
WW: 28 yo
married 6+ yrs
Together 10 yrs
1st Dday August 25, '07 (week of our anniversary)
affair started ??? Spring '07
Beautiful son 2.5 yrs
About a dozen D-days 8/07 - 12/07
Most recent NC attempt - 1/1/08 (maybe this time?...)
3/1/08 - Told me OM is an A**hole. Progress?
Latest D-day (found out she was F-ing him after all)- 5/3/08
Finally attempting recovery together - 5/8/08


QueeniesNewLife QueeniesNewLife
Member
Quote:It, like many of my posts seems to have killed the thread, so I thought I'd start another to see if it has any legs or if anyone has some kind words or thoughts for me. I could really use it... I'm at work and so I can't read the post and really concentrate, but I wanted to address this.

I remember last year having the same trouble. Partly it was because I kept changing my post. But then I read Mimi's Plan B thread and I noticed how she would post and get no response and then she would keep posting. I get the need to have people respond and become involved in my life and we are here for you.

I realized that it was my responsibility to keep posting even if people didn't respond because it was helping me feel connected and then boom people would respond. I'm sorry you aren't getting what you need right now from us. We are here and just be patient. Don't you just hate that word.

Keep to the one post, in the end it will help us to keep following along and then one day you will be able to go back and see the growth not to mention have all that wisdom in one place.

I'll try to read your threads and see if I am able to offer anything. The vets are way more better at the what to dos. I am the feeling person.
_________________________
BW-47 WH-48
M 1-1-84 D-22, S-18.5, S-15
PA 5/06 D-Day 5/14/07 lives w/OW
Walking in FAITH


Want2Stay Want2Stay
Member

TTH,

I'm here TTH. I have to get ready for work, but I will put together a response as soon as I can. Hang in there for now. It will get better with time.

Want2Stay
_________________________
BS-me 36 FWW-34 DS-7 DS-3 PA - 7/06-8/06 EA - 6/06-1/07 D-Day: wife confessed 2-17-07, suspected 8-02-06 Broke NC: 2-19-07, 3-24-07, 5/07 My Story My Wife's Story Email: StillStaying@gmail.com --------------------- Healing one day at a time.....

TryTooHard TryTooHard
Member

I know that if I had confronted RB at their shared workplace when I first found out back in August, that it would have changed the dynamic, they would not have been able to continue as they did there...

If I had let MIL (remorseful former adulterer) know what was going on when she was here visiting back in September, she could have done the crying, begging, pleading thing that seemed to work in December, BEFORE it got physical...

I know intellectually that this is a useless exercise, but the idea that I could have tried something else gnaws at my brain. I feel as though I did not fulfill my solemn vow to protect her, even if it was from herself.

I sacrificed my integrity and honor by putting her (wayward) feelings ahead of my own instincts, and the results are catastrophic.

I hate her for what she did. More for her lowering herself to that level, than for my own pain and anguish.

I'm sorry for the rant, but this is my place for that, good or bad.

I know she's "on board".
I know she wants us to get better.
I know, I know, I know...

Unfortunately, what I "know" isn't helping me "feel" any better about myself or her...
_________________________
BS (me) : 40yo
WW: 28 yo
married 6+ yrs
Together 10 yrs
1st Dday August 25, '07 (week of our anniversary)
affair started ??? Spring '07
Beautiful son 2.5 yrs
About a dozen D-days 8/07 - 12/07
Most recent NC attempt - 1/1/08 (maybe this time?...)
3/1/08 - Told me OM is an A**hole. Progress?
Latest D-day (found out she was F-ing him after all)- 5/3/08
Finally attempting recovery together - 5/8/08



Just Learning Just Learning
Member

Try,

The age thing??? A time old question and one with no clear resolution. I have a theory and it seems to be born out via my children's lives. Men really don't mature until they are around 30, woman do it a bit sooner, but not before say 25.

People obviously get married at younger ages, but the chances of them making some very foolish decisions is increased with decreased age. I don't know your W although I have posted to her.

My guess and it is only a guess, is that she fell into a common conception of marriage: it is just like living together, it is just like seriously dating, it is just like... My answer is NO IT IS NOT JUST LIKE... But, given that young folks think that way, they have no conception of the commitment, the "becoming one" that occurs in a marriage. Thus they don't value what they have nor what they will destroy when they "change their mind".


This last statement "change their mind" is a product of feeling that marriage is just like... but with a paper.

I cannot assert that your W now "gets it". I would suggest that she is more aware of what marriage really is now, thus for the first time you really ARE MARRIED to the woman you love so much.

You will no doubt have to work through this yourself as all do, but I would hope that your W know has a better idea what marriage really is and how it should and can bind people together for life, so that they may share their life.

Your age difference will make a difference in the "end game" probably, but who know. Now it shows up in a difference in maturity and what you truly value. I do know that she can and hopefully has caught up with you in regards to seeing marriage as more than "going steady" or in a "committed relationship".

Just thoughts don't know if they help.

God Bless,

JL


TryTooHard TryTooHard
Member




TryTooHard Queenie,

you are absolutely right. Sorry, my brain's not really firing on all cylinders right now.

I'll move this over to my other post to keep it consolidated.

I don't know if all the replies will move over as well...

Sorry for the confusion.
_________________________
BS (me) : 40yo
WW: 28 yo
married 6+ yrs
Together 10 yrs
1st Dday August 25, '07 (week of our anniversary)
affair started ??? Spring '07
Beautiful son 2.5 yrs
About a dozen D-days 8/07 - 12/07
Most recent NC attempt - 1/1/08 (maybe this time?...)
3/1/08 - Told me OM is an A**hole. Progress?
Latest D-day (found out she was F-ing him after all)- 5/3/08
Finally attempting recovery together - 5/8/08

TTH,

My grandfather was 32 when he married my grandmother...She was half his age at 16. They were married for 50 years when he died. She followed two years later, primarily due to her lack of will to live without him.

I posted to your wife a couple days ago, but wanted to repeat it here directly to you.

What makes Dr Harley's methods different and I believe better than other plans of recovery is that he seeks to first and foremost rebuild the love between husband and wife. Communication, dealing with resentment and all the other really hard bits need to be addressed but it will be by depositing into each other's LB$ that you stand the best chance of still being together years into the future.

This is why the Policy of Undivided Attention is the key to making this all work. The 15 hours Dr H recommends that you spend together is to be used to meet each other's ENs.In order to do this, none of this time should be used for recovery activities. It should not be used to discuss the affair, the consequences of the affair or even the pain the affair caused you. Any of those really difficult issues will withdraw from both LB$ because neither of you will be able to simply talk about it without the raw emotions getting involved.

In Fall In Love Stay In Love, Dr Harley suggests that if you are spending 15 hours per week or any number of hours per week doing fun and recreational type stuff and it seems you are struggling then you should begin spending even more time together doing those things until you begin to feel connected and more emotionally bonded to each other. In other words, until you feel "in love" again.

If every time you are together, the affair is discussed then before long neither of you will want to be around the other for the emotional toll it will take will destroy any remaining love you have for each other. But if you can find ways to be together having fun and enjoying your time together, you will soon begin to seek out that time together and it will seem as if you could just stay in each other's presence forever. You will actually hate to part.

But the secret to resolving the problems, conflicts and other issues associated with the affair have to be dealt with, but not pursued to the exclusion of rebuilding your love for each other.

I understand all too well the sense of no longer loving her after the affair is finally over. And finding out the truth after so long is a serious love buster, as are any lies, but these hurt the most. But it will be by rebuilding your love for each other so that you both desire moving forward and resolving your problems together that will save your marriage. It is the foundation that has been destroyed and that is the first thing you have to rebuild. All the rest of it will come in time, but unless you spend your time now making deposits into your LB$, none of the rest will matter, because you will not fall in love all over again and will not want to go on together.

What brought you together when you were already approaching middle age and she was but a young girl? What did you do together that made you want to marry her and she you? What kind of activities did you spend your time doing then those many years ago? Do those things again, as much as your older body allows, of course. (At 91, George Burns said, "There's nothing I can't do now that I could do when I was 18. Which shows you how pathetic I was at 18...")

I know this stuff sucks, TTH. It gets easier if you let her make a few deposits and even better when You can once more begin giving to her. That's when the healing will start. And that too is when you will be able tackle the real issues. Along the way you will find that many things will resolve themselves and what now seems to be pushing a rope up a hi will simply resolve itself when you feel in love with each other.

And it all begins with recreational activities. Whooda thunk?

Mark

TTH,

HTM here. I feel the need to read a reply. It reminds us that we're not alone in this painful process...even if we are the only ones able to do the work.

I did what you were doing...starting new posts in hopes that it would get a response. I was also told to keep it to one thread.

What I have realized is that this forum is not only about replies, but about writing my OWN feelings out for ME. I re-read the posts that I have made...remembering the very near past and thinking about things that I have felt. I have also realized that the people here often READ your thread and do not post. They are careful with their words...maybe more careful than us newbies who feel the need to expel EVERYTHING from our system at an alarming rate.

Just know, I am reading your thread. You are being "watched" and listened to. When you feel like you really just need to know that, write something like "Hello out there?" and I'll respond even if I am just as clueless about your challenge as you are.

I am here. Many others are here. We are listening. We are hoping and praying.

You are not alone.

PS. If you see "Hello out there?" on my thread, feel free to holler back!

Mark.....

what can I say than...another AMAZING post....honestly, they should have a sticky just with your posts to everyone on here.....whenever you write one to somebody, they can just stick it there....

not2fun

I know you have heard it before. Dr. Laura is famous for saying "do the actions, the emotions will follow." I all to well know the emotions you are going through. For me is was my dw of then 45, now 46 years, a born again christian since age 8 who had her "friend" take his motor home out (while I was out of town) and she drove out to spend the night and have sex with him.
I am praying for you and your wife!

Sky

I am the one who asked about the age thing so I copied and posted my two posts from the other thread to here.

mlhb


YOU are not to blame for HER choices.
do YOU really think that you could have stopped her?
don't do that to yourself.
she has to own her choices not you.

it sucks and it is plan CRAP, but she did what she did and there is NOTHING you could have done to stop it.

STOP being so hard on yourself. YOU did nothing wrong SHE did.

the WHATIFS will drive you insane especially when the bottom line is that they do not matter because she had her mind set on an affair and it was happening no matter what you might have tried to do.

PLEASE do NOT blame yourself. YOU are not to blame.

mlhb

and here was my other post to him:

mlhb


wow, i just read your sig line. you two got together when she was only 18 and you were 30?

i am wondering if the age difference is playing any part in anything. that is quite a difference when she was only 18. i am NOT making excuses for her, but am curious, was OM closer to her age? Were you her one and only? She was so young, she never really got to be out there and "sew her oats" so to speak...

i am just thinking out loud and again, it is NO EXCUSE FOR HER IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM.. but didn't that thought ever cross your mind when you got involved with someone so young?

no offense to you at all but my sister is only 19 and i would KILL her if she was involved with a 30 year old! that is if my father didn't get to her and the guy first.

mlhb


** now, I did post on his wife's thread as well about this question and she did not completely disagree with me on the points I brought up**

Let me tell you a little story. When LaLa and I were first married we had a couple that were our friends. It was her BF at the time and her DH. We were all pretty close and spent a lot of time partying together and stuff. They seemed very happy and had a pretty good M. About 2 years later, LaLa's BF started to pursue music. Over the course of the next 2 years, I watched in horror as she withdrew from her M, started having A's and eventually D'd her husband and basically abandoned her biological daughter to go do her own thing. Eventually, she ended up marrying someone 35 years older than her all in the pursuit of her own thing.

Fast forward to the days before our 10th wedding anniversary, As part of LaLa's anniversary gift I had planned to give LaLa studio time to record a karaoke CD as a legacy for our children. I had always promised her throughout our M that when we were able to I would help her pursue her music. At one point, because of remembering what had happened to our friends at the beginning of our M, I had convinced myself that it was a bad idea to give LaLa the studio time. I realized the potential can of worms it could open up and decided it wasn't worth the risk. There was no reason for me to go through with it because LaLa hadn't really mentioned anything about singing in 6 years. She had swore off pursuing music when she took 2 place in the state karaoke competition. Besides, I had already bought her a gorgeous anniversary band as her other gift. I went back and forth for the next couple of days and actually tried to visit the studio one day to help calm my fears. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to find the studio that day because I ran out of time and had to be home. If I had found it though I guarantee I would not have gone through the with studio time gift. It was a real dump and not at all the professional recording studio I had hoped it to be. The night before our anniversary I decided to go through with it anyways. I choose to do it because I knew in my heart it would mean more to LaLa than anything else I could possibly give her. I convinced myself that our M was stronger than our friends had been. That we had passed the so called "7 year itch" thing. We had been married 10 years and everything would be fine.

In the months before the A, I noticed LaLa getting a little to concerned with OM's opinion. I wrote it off as just being a close working friendship. We actually had a couple of conversations where I reminded LaLa that she was there to get her CD done so we could see if we could make her dreams come true. Not to get too attached to the OM. There were so many occasions where I almost packed up the kids to go to the studio to surprise her. In the end, I didn't do it because I believed that I could trust her and it was all in my head.

I remember all this stuff as if it happened yesterday. Guess what? None of it matters. TTH, hindsight is ALWAYS 20/20. Life if full of regrets. Everyone here has things in their past that they would do differently if given the opportunity. You made the best decisions you could with the information you had at the time. No amount of rehashing things in your head is going to change the outcome. I know how difficult it is to turn it off, but coming to this realization now will save you so much pain. The regret is greater because the resulting pain is greater. Try to take a step back for a second and see things from the other side of the fence. Imagine the regret, pain and guilt that IMLH has for her choices. She chose to do something that she probably swore she would never do. She has caused an enormous amount of pain to someone she swore to protect. Imagine how that must feel. More than likely, not even knowing why or how she got so confused in the first place. Wishing so desperately she could take it all back and yet knowing she can not. It must be an awful feeling TTH. It will take time TTH, but your perspective on things will change. It all reminds me of something my uncle used to say to me when I made mistakes....

If the dog wouldn't have stopped to take a chit, he would have caught the rabbit. Shoulda, coulda, wouldas ain't gonna fix it now...

Hope this helps and hang in there TTH. I promise it will get better with time.

Want2Stay

I suffer alot from the "what ifs" too, TTH. I don't know why I do it to myself, but it has gotten better with time. I think in some way maybe the "what ifs" are our attempt to gain control over a situation we never had control of. If we can believe that this happened to us because of something we did or didn't do, then we can FIX something that will prevent us from going through this pain again. But it doesn't work that way really does it?

Our (F)WSs are individuals, who made thier own decisions. The truth of the matter is that we (the BSs) were not enough of a factor to impact thier decision making during the A, there was no way for us to control that.

The "what ifs" are an attempt to take blame, in order to gain control. You are not to blame, and you are not in control. Scary in some ways, liberating in others.

Hey TTH

I paid for Squid to go to Italy with OM and the English national squad for a week....and their A was sealed during it ! Now with hindsight that might not have been the wisest thing I have ever done ...

But IN TRUTH Squid and OM exploited their opportunities to escalate their relationship to an affair. If I had not been complicit, they would have found a way without me.

What I had to do is look at the bald FACTS without adding layers of extra portent to them in order to make myself feel worse.

This concentration on the facts is a really useful technique called " loving detachment ". Here's a description I wrote for W2S and others a while back in case it helps :

I want to clarify something re:

"I hate her for what she did. More for her lowering herself to that level, than for my own pain and anguish."

I miswrote what I meant to say. I do not "hate" ILMH, I hate what she did. I hate who she became during her adultery.

This was not meant to be a hurtful statement directed at ILMH. When I re-read my post I realized that was not what I meant to say at all. I was having a little difficulty yesterday...

TTH

TTH,

It is easy to say something from a place of hurt and anger...don't be too hard on yourself. Your clarification makes sense.

I talked with our MC about this anger last night. I told him that I WANT to be angry with FWH, but I find it is almost easier to be angry with MYSELF because then I can still justify how much I still love him.

Wow...I thought when the anger thing started, the pain thing would subside. It doesn't. It just adds itself to the mix...

Ladies and gentlemen, if you experience infidelity, not only will you get pain, but as an additional bonus at no extra cost, you get anger, frustration, self-doubt, and depression!! A bargain at twice the price!

(Sorry for the outburst...feeling a bit jaded at the moment...)

If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we'd all have a marvelous Christmas.

Or to quote Billy Bob Thornton from Bad Santa:

TTH,

Hope you are doing better today. Something that helped me a great deal was to read all I could about A's and the dynamic of how they happen. Right now, you view it as your DW choosing to jump directly into an A without any regard for the consequences of that choice. In most cases, that is not how it happens. It is a progression of events that lead to an A. At first, it is just a friendship. Someone to confide in. Gradually, over time, the boundaries are pushed a little more. Once the addiction of EN's being met kicks in, there is not much chance of turning back. To the WS, when the final boundary is crossed, it just seems like one more small step. It is not some giant leap. I think all this can happen without the WS even recognizing it is happening. Before they know it they are addicted to the feeling and the whole thing takes on a snowball effect from there.

You will hear Mrs. W say this and I believe it is true in our situations as well. The A was an aberration of character. Something that happened totally against the person our WS's are. It was a series of the perfect circumstances that lead to the A. Remove even one of those circumstances and we may not be here today. The thing is TTH, your DW decided to confess to you on her own. Imagine the amount of courage and character that took. It shows the person she truly is that she was willing to face the mistakes she made to make things right with you.


I don't believe this TTH. Like I explained earlier, the A was not planned. It is something that happened gradually. It didn't start out with the intent of betraying your M. Sure it lead to it, but it was not that way from the beginning.


TTH, she did end up in the fog unintentionally. It was a gradual process. The choice was not made with the intent of hurting you. You are right you didn't deserve this, but the choice was about her and the addiction. It wasn't not a personal attack against you. Your DW was oblivious to the potential consequences because she was living in the moment of filling the addiction. Getting the fix of the high just like and alcoholic or drug addict. I think the WS truly believes that they can keep the secret and their BS will never find out. It allows them to focus on getting the high and not the guilt they feel for their choices. There is a disconnect there between the reality and the fantasy. The things you did to try to prevent things in the end were just seen as fuel for the justifications and addiction that was already in place.

Hope this stuff helps you TTH. You can use this thought process to help fight the feelings you have. It won't always work, but it will help take some of the sting out of it sometimes.

Want2Stay

Thanks.

DW and I have had some really good talks around all of this, and the reasons it happened etc, and I am feeling better.

There is still an immense amount of pain and frustration, but we are now pulling in the same direction and I'm optimistic that we will be able to address things as they come up with maturity and compassion for one another.

It has been almost two weeks since she told me the unthinkable happened, and the sting, though still there is more like a dull pain now. The torrential rains of emotion are subsiding somewhat and evening out.

I am hopeful for our future together. She spoke with her BF yesterday and cleared the air about what had REALLY happened v. what she had been told, and that really means a lot to me.

I think we can make it if we both put the sustained effort in.

Thanks again for all of the kind words, thoughts and prayers.

TTH

TTH,

Great to hear! It is a roller coaster TTH, but as time goes by it does get easier to deal with. I believe the two of you can do this. Use the MB principals to rebuild you M. You can't undo the past all you can do is focus on the future. Take things one day at a time and when things get rough don't get discouraged. It is a long process, but one that can work when both people pull in the same direction as a team. Hang in there.....

Want2Stay

TTH,

Just checking in to see how you are holding up. I saw that ILMH had posted that you are having problems with getting all the details out in the open. Try not to get too wrapped up in the details. They may help to clear up the picture of what happened a little, but they will not serve you well in recovery. Please try to be patient with IMLH as she remembers stuff that she feels you need to know. In our situation, there was a lot of stuff that happened that LaLa blocked out. I think it's a tendency of a WS to block out hurtful events to avoid feeling guilt because the guilt would take away from the HIGH of filling the addiction. Along those lines, when ILMH does come to you with some new specifics, be sure to try and contain your anger. I understand that some of these things can be painful, but she is disclosing this information to you out of respect for you and your M. If you become angry during these conversations, she would be less likey to come to you in the future. Hang in there........

Want2Stay

Thanks so much W2S.

You have no idea how much it means to me to know that someone out there cares. You and LaLa have been instrumental in helping me through this.

Anyway, what I'm finding is that the specific details are not necessarily that important themselves, rather in how they start to fill in the whole picture of the nature of the relationship between them.

At first I thought that it was "just" an EA, then in time I came to realize that it was a PA, but my understanding was that FWW was something of a reluctant participant, now I am coming to realize that she in fact was at least as agressive in the pursuit as he was, then in dribbles I discover additional things she was doing for him in addition to sex. etc.

We spoke early on, and many here counseled ILMH to reveal everything to me "NOW" to prevent this from dragging on, and to prevent the clock from continually being reset.

My sense, be it accurate or not, is still that she has not yet revealed the true nature of her feelings and effort in going after this POS. I don't expect her to have transcripts of their conversations, or that she will explicitly remember every detail of every day of the last year, but I think she should be able to give me a general sense of what she was thinking, the general tone of their engagements etc.

It's like the "Joseph's Letter" where I only have a hundred or so pieces of the 1000 piece puzzle. She may not have all remaining 900, but she certainly has a few hundred, and she sure has the box with the picture on it.

Some want details, some do not. I understand this. I happen to be one who requires details. I feel that unless she is able to FULLY disclose the nature of their abomination, I will not be able to get past my feelings of resentment, distrust and loss of respect for her.

I want more than simply a loveless marriage of convenience for the sake of our son and SF. While it still feels like she is not being completely open with me, regardless of her reasons, I can not imagine anything more than the "loving detachment" I hear others describe that their marriage has become.

Divorcing over adultery would be sad, but I think staying together without true love again might be sadder still.

Thanks for checking in W2S...

TTT...

I haven't posted to you before, but have followed along in both of your threads. I feel for you. I really do.

The thing about details. I completely understand. I was one who thought she wanted them all. Now, I have a WS who did not supply them, but yet I found them anyway (keylogger on the computer....opened up a whole news pandora's box for me.....WS had ALL of their emails saved...I know WAY TOO MUCH INFORMATION...). The thing is it goes either way. If you don't get the details, you get resentment. If you get the details, you get resentment.

Unfortunately, you are in a lose/lose situation. It is easy to say that you will not hold it against them if you know the details, BUT, and this is huge, it is much harder than you think. So much harder. The only thing I can say about knowing what I know, is that the questions for me have ended. Oh sure there are some small ones I have, but I have come to realize for me knowing any more than I do, just hurts. And leaves me with more resentment to deal with.....which is hard enough....

Think on this....your Recovery starts today (tell yourself this every morning...). We are putting the past behind us. We cannot change it, and IN SPITE of this, we will build a stronger, more loving, more open and honest marriage TODAY. It will be the kind of marriage ONE always dreams of.

You said you wanted more than a marriage of convience? Well, YOU know that can only happen when you two fill up those love banks. I can see that there is a reason that Dr. Harley says to put the resentment on hold.....

Just be careful with getting too bogged down with the details. I know this crap is easier said than done, I am in the same boat (kind of....), but for me my hopes and dreams for my marriage today and tomorrow are most important.

Hang in there....and try not to let the details bother you.....

not2fun

W2S

ps....W2S (great post btw...)does have it right when he says that the wayward has blocked some things out. I have found some things or I remember what was going on on our end and WS does not remember so clearly....I honestly think that is so true. They were so entrapped in their "alien" persona that they did/said things that they don't remember. And when it is brought to their attention, it is a crushing blow to them because they just can't believe that. My WS has said many times that he had done things during the A that he is NOT proud of....and we have yet to truly see a wayward who wouldn't go back and undo the A if they could......