l2w -

It may seem as though people are against you and your marriage here, but they are actually on YOUR side. That's why they took the time to write to you. It's painful, I know, but try to re-read what has been said in the context of people trying to support YOU first.

I cannot begin to know God's plan for your marriage, much less mine, but I want to reiterate that I understand your feelings. Thank you for posting this thread, because reading some of these responses has actually giving me more peace of mind about the potential end of my marriage.

When a friend told me that God is not going to override someone's free will, it freed ME. That's why I wanted to share that thought with you. I stopped praying for God to make WS do anything. Those prayers frustrate, because it's just not how God seems to operate. The closest I come anymore is asking God to put situations in his path that help him see the light. But while God may put those things there, He's not going to make WS see or respond to them. He just isn't. Sometimes I also ask Him to soften WS' heart; since I know God will harden a person's heart, I hope He will soften it as well...but that kind of prayer, honestly, I just kind of raise half-heartedly.

It's hard to come to grips with the fact that a person doesn't really belong to you just because you got married, and hard to accept that they are going to do whatever they want, even if they made a sacred promise to be with you forever. I used prayer as a way to control another human being who wasn't doing what I wanted, and it doesn't work that way. I believe prayer is our most powerful weapon in battle, I truly do, so I'm not trying to discourage you. But I think the kinds of prayers we offer can be self-defeating.

My therapist, a very wise Christian woman, told me that perhaps I should stop praying so much for our marriage, and instead focus on praying for his salvation. Because someone who could do all that WS has, may not have ever been saved in the first place. I ran a movie in my mind of our life together, and now I really question what our relationship has been based upon all these years. I ignored certain things he said as just his rebellious streak, because most of what he said towed the Christian line. But now I realize that OW - who used to say she was angry with God but now goes to church and it gets her the boy - was most likely behind some of those odd questionings. Or maybe she just brought out who he really is. I don't know. Do you think you really know who your WS has been all along? Because maybe it's time to pray for different things.

And to pray that God will set you free to go in any direction He chooses for you. That's not giving up on your marriage. That's accepting the state that it's in, putting it in God's hands, and focusing on using the time you have here on earth following the path He has for you individually - as someone said above. Married or not, we all need to do that. Sometimes not doing that is what puts our marriages in jeopardy in the first place. But that's another topic all together.

Well, after reading everyone's posts, I am more determined than ever. I have faced reality. I do know that there is the possiblity he will never come home. I have faced it. However, I do not believe that it is time to stop fighting.

I think about all the people in the Bible who never gave up. The women who went before the judge finally received her answer. We have no idea how long it took. But because of her persistence, she was rewarded.

God did not give us an "out" of our marriage. satan helped that. Moses said it was okay for the two situations-yet it was only because of the hardness of our hearts. I don't want my heart to be hardened. God's word says Love Never Fails. I am not willing to lay down and become another statisic of christian failed marriages without a fight. I am not willing for satan to get my husband's soul for good, ruin and destroy my marriage and my children for years to come. I'm not going to just hand it over. There is nothing better or more powerful I can do than to pray. It won't be anything I do or don't do that will change him (that would just be a bandaid on the problem); it will be God doing a mighty work inside of him, changing and making him the man God wants him to be.

God told Jeosephat that the battle was not his. God has told me the same thing. I am not to be on the front lines in this one. That is His place. Just as Jeosphat did I am to kneel at God's throne, pray and watch his deliverence. God hates divorce. I made a covenant with my H and God that I intend on keeping until the day one of us dies, regardless of what my H does. I am not responsible for him, only me and I will do things biblically. I will not remarry until he dies. It says you either reconcile with your H or you stay single. That is what I will do.

My H is not gay. He may have tendencies, he may not know how to relate to a male, due to many things in his childhood. But there is no conclusive evidence that says it is a gene. Just like scientists are finding that maybe their Big Bang Theory is wrong afterall. Just because people say something, doesn't make it true. He has made a choice to sin against God, against me and against our children. He has allowed satan to decieve and lie to him. He has chosen to be out of fellowship with God. For those of you who don't believe people can change-Read about Paul. I have a friend who is a former homosexual, was in a relationship for 10 years, when God got ahold of him and changed him. He is married with two kids and no desire for that lifestyle. So don't tell me he can't change. And although I have ordered a couple of books, it won't be the books or a "program" or a "plan" that will change him. It will be the unbelievable, unimaginable power of the Living God that will change him. God says that if we ask anything according to His will we can know and believe we have received. Well, I know that it is not God's will for my H to live a gay lifestyle and I know it is not His will for my H to abandon his family. And most importantly, it is not His will for my H to go to Hell. Yes, I know he has his own free will. However, I am standing in the gap, until he comes to his senses. I don't know how long that will be, but I made a commitment and I will keep it. I believe with all that is within me, this is what God has called me to do.

I choose to follow the hard path-because it is right. Wide and shallow is the path most will take-be done with it and move on. Narrow is the way and it is hard-staying married through good and bad, sickness and health, rich or poor as long as I live.

Some of you say he won't change, he won't come back and you know what that is very possible. It it hopeless if I am trying to manipulate him to come back, by filing for divorce or using Plan A or Plan B, but God says nothing is impossible for him who believes; nothing is impossible for God; nothing is too hard for God; everything is possible with God; if you trust in Him and His Word you will not be put to shame. It is impossible when I look at the situation and when I think about it-But with God it's not. He is bigger and stronger. This is nothing to Him. My problem is I'm just impatient. I want it now and God isn't ready yet.

I cannot wait to give God the glory and make His name famous because of what He is going to do in my marriage and my life, my childrens lives and my husband's life. People will stand in awe of Him because he cannot be contained. Thank you all for helping me to remember what I really believe and that the worse things are and the more impossible the situation, the bigger God is and the more powerful the deliverance. I hope to read your responses.

l2w -

It may seem as though people are against you and your marriage here, but they are actually on YOUR side. That's why they took the time to write to you. It's painful, I know, but try to re-read what has been said in the context of people trying to support YOU first.

I cannot begin to know God's plan for your marriage, much less mine, but I want to reiterate that I understand your feelings. Thank you for posting this thread, because reading some of these responses has actually giving me more peace of mind about the potential end of my marriage.

When a friend told me that God is not going to override someone's free will, it freed ME. That's why I wanted to share that thought with you. I stopped praying for God to make WS do anything. Those prayers frustrate, because it's just not how God seems to operate. The closest I come anymore is asking God to put situations in his path that help him see the light. But while God may put those things there, He's not going to make WS see or respond to them. He just isn't. Sometimes I also ask Him to soften WS' heart; since I know God will harden a person's heart, I hope He will soften it as well...but that kind of prayer, honestly, I just kind of raise half-heartedly.

It's hard to come to grips with the fact that a person doesn't really belong to you just because you got married, and hard to accept that they are going to do whatever they want, even if they made a sacred promise to be with you forever. I used prayer as a way to control another human being who wasn't doing what I wanted, and it doesn't work that way. I believe prayer is our most powerful weapon in battle, I truly do, so I'm not trying to discourage you. But I think the kinds of prayers we offer can be self-defeating.

My therapist, a very wise Christian woman, told me that perhaps I should stop praying so much for our marriage, and instead focus on praying for his salvation. Because someone who could do all that WS has, may not have ever been saved in the first place. I ran a movie in my mind of our life together, and now I really question what our relationship has been based upon all these years. I ignored certain things he said as just his rebellious streak, because most of what he said towed the Christian line. But now I realize that OW - who used to say she was angry with God but now goes to church and it gets her the boy - was most likely behind some of those odd questionings. Or maybe she just brought out who he really is. I don't know. Do you think you really know who your WS has been all along? Because maybe it's time to pray for different things.

And to pray that God will set you free to go in any direction He chooses for you. That's not giving up on your marriage. That's accepting the state that it's in, putting it in God's hands, and focusing on using the time you have here on earth following the path He has for you individually - as someone said above. Married or not, we all need to do that. Sometimes not doing that is what puts our marriages in jeopardy in the first place. But that's another topic all together.

Edited by Imagination (05/16/08 08:48 AM)

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Plan A & B are not about manipulating someone to come back. Plan A is about making positive changes in yourself and trying to meet a wayward's most important ENs in order to show them what a great marriage the two of you can have. Ideally the wayward will end their EMA and recommit to the marriage because of this. If not, you go to Plan B, which also isn't about manipulating anyone. It's about protecting yourself from the harmful effects of your WS' behavior while they refuse to end their EMA. And no one here recommends filing for divorce as a means to convince a WS to come back.

If you continue to allow your WH to have his cake and eat it too, he has no incentive to change. If you want things to remain as they are, continue doing exactly what you're doing.

Here's a DB (Denial Buster) for you ... if your H has been in a 3 year relationship with another man ... HE'S GAY!!!

You can try to hope, wish and pray it away all you want, but your WH is a GAY man. You can accept that and move on with your life, or you can WASTE it waiting for a miracle ... its your life and your choice.

YOU are going to make God's name famous?

Huh?

What responses are you looking for? That we agree that God will bring your H home? Even the Christian's here do not believe that(as far as I can see). Given your set of circumstances and reality...it isn't going to happen. God is bigger than any problem. But your husband does not follow God.



Good luck with that. I suspect you will be teaching your children a horrible lesson about how to waste the gift of life afforded them by God.

So, why are you on a secular web site looking for answers? You seem to feel that only prayer can help you...so why be here?

luv2write - I'm going to be as "gentle" as I can with this because I can prove, biblically, that is this is wrong and I want to know on what basis you "believe" what you said.

IF you believe that the Scripture, ALL of Scripture is the inscripturated, inerrant, Word of God, then you are wrong in this statement you made, according to the Word of God and not according to my "opinion."

When our "beliefs" are in conflict with the Word of God, it is the Word of God that is decisive and it is our "job" to accept the Word of God even IF "we might not like it."




It is my opinion that you are misinterpreting this situation just as the Pharisees who attempted to trap Jesus did. I would be willing to discuss this further with you if you'd like to.




This is a true statement. But it is your "application" of the statement that is "in question." Again, we could discuss this further if you'd like to.




That's fine, and a good perspective to have. But understand that what is implicit in your statement is that there is no guarantee that you will "win the fight" the "WAY" you want it to be won.

IF you don't believe me, ask the Martyrs.




In all gentleness and understanding of what you are facing in your marriage, the choice is not yours, luv2write. It is GOD, not us, who elects who is and who is not saved. So let's be perfectly clear here, NO practicing homosexual or adulterer will be in heaven. If they are not going to be in heaven, NO amount of praying or hoping will "overturn" the Justice of God that HIS holiness requires.





THAT is a true statement. It also does not "release" you from your obligation TO God to STAND FOR God and what He has said as our Sovereign Lord.

Do you think that Jesus didn't want the second "thief on the cross" to surrender his life to Him? Do you think that Jesus prayed for ALL sinners? Do you think that Jesus surrendered His will to the Father's will?

Why DID Jesus die on the cross for us?




Yes, God does hate all divorce. But He also grants the faithful spouse the "right," to a divorce if they so choose. Why do you think He did that?

IF you choose to remain married to your husband and you are "comfortable" with that, even though you KNOW there is no way that you will actually HAVE a marriage with someone who actually loves the Lord and has surrendered his life to Christ, then you will get NO argument from me that you also have the right to NOT divorce. However, your husband may also choose to divorce at some point, so understand that whatever you have, the covenant of marriage has already been broken by your husband and God WILL NOT be a party to an unholy "marriage."



I applaud your dedication to the Scripture, however you are incorrect again with respect to what the Scripture DOES say about "divorce according to God."

You CAN choose to remain single and you can choose to marry again. God grants the faithful divorced spouse that right, and grants it so that the faithful spouse does NOT themselves commit adultery should they choose to remarry at some later time.




luv2write, the "key" to this statement is "according to HIS will," not our will. What IS God's will with respect to each individual? CAN God convert someone "against their will?" Of course He CAN. It is NOT a question of "capability." It IS a question of what God has SAID, according to HIS will, that we all reach the "age of accountability" and we all have to CHOOSE to accept or reject the gift of forgiveness and restoration of fellowship with God that is ONLY available, through the will of God, the WAY that God stated.

Let me ask you a question that may help to clarify this a little. Did you ever pray that your marriage NOT suffer from infidelity? What did God say to husbands and wives so as to insure that that the covenant of marriage would not be broken and that you could have a marriage that brings honor and glory TO God? Did God "not answer" your prayer?




This is fine, luv2write. But you also said that God did not grant a faithful spouse the right to a divorce. If you choose to "stand in the gap" where the individual does not want or need you (according to their own wants and desires), you CAN. Just know that you choose to do so regardless of what God's will for your husband IS. There is NOTHING wrong with your belief that God has called YOU to take this stance in YOUR marriage. Just realize that God has NOT made it "mandatory," and that is why he allows divorce for marital unfaithfulness, because He is also a "God of Peace."



Again, luv2write, this is all true. But what IS "impossible" for God to do is to "go against Himself." He has commanded us and He has "established the rules" regarding forgiveness of sin and salvation. If you don't believe me, then consider Lot's wife.

Consider Abraham's "negotiations" with God for the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah as he "stood in the gap" for them, since even they are created in God's image.

God cannot go against Himself. Please don't forget that truth either.




A noble hope, as long as it is God who "gets the glory."

But don't forget, also, what God has told believers regarding heretics....
"Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him. You may be sure that such a man is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned." (Titus 3:10-11)

There is little that is more "divisive" than someone who thinks that what God has declared an "abomination" is really "good."

How long you choose to "wait," even if it is until your husband dies, is up to you. You have the right to "wait" and you have the right to "divorce." The choice IS yours, because gives EACH faithful spouse the same right in order to "protect" the faithful spouse and to be your God of Peace from the very real hurtful and harmful effects of sin and adultery.

God bless.

I don't think all is well here.

Clearly!

I do believe there have been instances where God has healed a situation even like this. After all, He is God; He is capable of anything IF their is true repentaqnce.
BUT as has been pointed out repeatedly, a healing would require repentance on the part of the sinner and I don't see a hint of him being remorseful.
If it was me in this situation and I had children to think of, no way would I spend their young years trying to reconcile with someone who has chosen a reprobate lifestyle. I would get as far away as fast as I could.
You would have to be a very strong person to deal with someone who has weaknesses and temptations in this area. This sort of case is just the reason a merciful God provided and "out", and I would strongly suggest that you take it.

Thanks for your replies. I assumed this was a christian sight, so what I was looking for (encouragement to keep doing what I am doing)I wasn't going to get.

I do not see anywhere in the Bible where God wants us to take "the out". Just because he gives it, doesn't mean we have to take it. Yes, I know my H will have to pay the consequences, but I am not going to just sit back and watch it happen.

Truly, you all do not understand where my heart is and why I am doing what I am doing. I am being obedient to God and regardless of whether you agree, I don't really care.

I'm just glad Noah didn't stop building the ark when everyone told him to and told him he was crazy. Where would you be then.

the cry of the delusional...no one understands me.


you don't need encouragement...you are determined to do what you are doing.

What you ARE doing is currently allowing youself and your children to suffer the consequenses as well! So, you are participating in the infidelity cycle instead of working to end it!


This is not what obedience looks like in scripture!



YOUR NOT LISTENING.... No one here is telling you to go get remarried and give up on your H .......
Many ARE saying to start fighting and plan a course of action that will give H enough consequenses to make his infidelity less appealing and maybe help it to end.

One of these tools is called divorce! I'm not advocating dating and remarriage. Only a consequense. A Boundary that needs drawn!
Another tool is a dark PlanB! Again, a boundary, a tool to break his infidelity!

Come on! Your being way to defensive...... God led you here, Please listen....... There are tools available!

Go back and re-read some of these posts with an open mind.

Uhm, if we buy into THAT thinking, then let's examine the length of years he was involved in a heterosexual relationship.

The Bible is clear about homosexuality. MyRev, if you are not a Believer, then that will not matter to you.

L2W, as a fellow Believer, I see the homosexual issue as clearly as you do.

That doesn't change the fact that you are dealing with an unrepentant spouse CHOOSING evil over good. Scriptures is clear about what YOU are to do when faced with evil...flee.

You are subjecting your children to evil that should not be in their lives, and you are a fool to think it does not affect them. It is your job to protect them, and you are not. I don't mean to hurt you.

I do not take spiritual warefare lightly. I have been through the fire, I have carried the weapons, I have the scars. Please take this seriously. I am not talking about the battle for your husband's soul, I am talking about the battle for your children's. Do not think that satan is overlooking them. Get them away from the evil in your lives.

Scriptural obedience?

God tells us to flee from evil.

God tells us to turn our backs on the unrepentant.

These are commands in Scripture.

Yes, God hates divorce. But he allows it to protect us FROM EVIL.

Seriously, are you trying to tell me that you think its possible for a man to TURN homosexual, and then REVERT to being completely straight? After 3 years, this isn't someone who is just bi-curious and then learns that they've made a terrible mistake. Just because he was "in" a heterosexual relationship, doesn't mean he is heterosexual ... at the most, he is bisexual. More likely, he was simply in the closet HIDING his sexual orientation all along.

You're right though ... I'm a non-believer, but that is irrelevant to this thread really. This woman's "beliefs" obviously have NO bearing on what her WH DOES, so her, my or your religious beliefs are irrelevant towards reaching her stated objective.

She is simply DELUSIONAL about the realities of this situation and is choosing to damage her childrens perceptions of relationships, while wasting her remaining life.

luv2write - you neatly sidestepped all I wrote to you just as you have been sidestepping most of what others have written to you.

For the record, luv2, this site is run by a professed Christian who is attempting to help ALL people affected by the sin of adultery, in a very "Good Samaritan" type of approach. Not to "preach" to them, but to provide for their physical needs so that they can regain their health and be in a position to "fend for themselves." That IS "Christian," and that is very good.

Now, if you want someone to beat up on who WILL give you Christian advice and counsel, then pick on me. As those who know me from my previous 6 years of involvement here, I am frequently accused of putting my faith in God before "MB methods."

But I will not lie to you. I will give you the truth. I will discuss (not argue) with you about your interpretations of Scripture when they may appear to be at "odds" with I think is clearly revealed in Scripture.


I would no more "support" your decision to let your children stand unprotected in the middle of a busy street than I would support a preconceived notion that God does not allow divorce, for the very same reason....to protect His innocent children from harm. As I said previously, if you are interested in disussing what God's Word DOES say, I will be happy to engage in such a discussion with you.




THAT, l2w, is precisely what I said. YOU said that God does not support divorce. So let's be precise in what we are saying to avoid misunderstandings, okay? There is a difference between what God "wants" and what He allows. God does not anyone to "perish," but He does allow it. It is the same with Divorce, God allows it even though He ordained Marriage back in the Garden of Eden and He "hates" all divorce. Why? Because it is SIN that leads to divorce. God loves the sinner but hates the sin, and God will NOT force a child of His (like you) to remain in a Godless marriage that is an affront to His Holiness. He WILL allow you to remain in it if you want to, but you need to know that ALL actions have consequences, and not all consequences are "good."





That is a disrespectful judgment on your part, l2w. I DO understand where your heart is and why you doing what you are doing. That is not in question.




Please don't misapply one Scripture for a justification of what you are choosing to do in your given situation. The situation of Noah has no comparions to your situation. God told Noah to build the ark because He WAS going to destroy all life on earth and forever change the world that He had created. The ark (like, if you want to use analogies, DIVORCE, was to protect and save Noah and his family from God's judgment) It was not to have Noah "stand in the breech" for those who were lost to sin. Could God have saved someone else? Yes, God had the capability of doing that, but He did not because the "people had chosen." When the Bible speaks of "giving them over to the hardness of their hearts," what do YOU think God is doing and what is He saying to believers who read that?

It is not your hardness of heart that is in view here, it is the sinner's hardness of heart, of self-interest, of willful refusal to honor God through humble obedience to Him.

Noah also did not "stand in the breech" for his family. God chose them and told Noah WHO was going to be on the Ark. God even selected the animals to go on the Ark and Noah did not have to "go on a hunt for them."


Noah didn't stop building the Ark because He believed God. The world as he knew it WAS coming to an end and only those God had chosen would survive. The actions or inactions of anyone else was irrelevant to Noah and Noah knew that nothing he did, not even building the Ark, would save anyone or anything that God had not chosen. It (the Ark), like Divorce for marital unfaithfulness, was planned by God to protect those who God had chosen as HIS, not those in rebellion to God.

THAT is why I said previously that praying for your husband's soul is a good thing. But nothing YOU can do, including staying married or divorcing him, will "cause" him to repent and turn to God. NO ONE comes to the Father unless the Holy Spirit draws them.

God bless.

MyRevelation - by what "worldview" do you make such a judgment and why should it apply to anyone other than yourself?

If you want to think she is "delusional" in your opinion, that is fine if that's what you want to think. But why not keep your opinions to yourself if you can't offer helpful support and advice?

It may stroke your ego to make yourself appear to be so much more "intelligent" than someone who believes in God and in Jesus Christ, but you offer no helpful advice. If it were you in her shoes, YOU would proceed directly to divorce. Fine. You've stated your view, now try to considerate and caring and helpful TO her, even if you disgree with what she is choosing. She has the RIGHT to choose for herself even if everyone else disagreed with her.

Remember, she is committed to trying to save what you might think is "unsavable." But she is NOT trying to justify ADULTERY or any other form of "marital unfaithfulness." So in the words of Clara..."where's your beef?"

Let's keep up with the thread ForeverHers ... there's no need to get your panties in a bunch.

If you'll notice, I was responding to SunflowerSmile's mischaracterization on my original post, NOT to luv2write.

She is clearly delusional, even from most of the Christian's stated perspectives. The point of the post that you took issue with was just to emphasize that her beliefs are irrelevant, since they have no bearing on what her WH CHOOSES to do. You all are the ones getting "wrapped around the axle" over your various interpretations, none of which have anything to do with what her WH will do next.

I fully understand where Myrev is coming from.

In addition, the mods have clearly defiend that it is their role to "police" postings. I find great value in Myreves words to this and other posters. I think he gets it. Like all of us, Myrev is trying to help.