On March 23, 2008 I found an email to my husband from his stepdaughter that he had printed out and put in his day planner. The email was basically her going off on her father because she had somehow intercepted an email from him to another woman that works in her office. She said in the email that she would never be able to look at him the same way again and scolded him repeatly because he is married and that I and the OW's husband would be so angry if we knew. She said "I know you said it was a joke but I have been racking my brain and I can't think of a single way it could be a joke." She also said if her boyfriend were to talk that way to another woman that she would dump him immediately. Needless to say I was devastated to read this! This email to her father was from November 2007 so clearly this had been going on for some time. I confronted my H immediately and he tried to say it was nothing and just a joke, blah, blah. I did not believe him and my first response was to divorce. I made arrangements to move out and got approved for a rental house, had the money ready, all I had to do was sign the lease. We decided literally at the last hour to try counseling instead. I asked everyone I knew and found a professional Christian counselor in our area that came highly reccomended and booked us an appt. right away. Even though H completely denies cheating he said our marraige was in big trouble (we have not been happy for a while now) and that he was all for the counseling. We went to an appt. together, one each separately, and then again together. The counselor states empahtically to me that my H is lying about everyhing and by the end of our second joint session offered to give us someone else's number because he can't help us if my H won't tell the truth. My H will not budge from his story and now I have no one to help. We are not going to get through this on our own and I feel totally lost at sea!! I never imagined a Christian counselor would just give up on us like that. I wanted a Christian counsleor in particular to make sure that our faith and biblical perspective on marriage would be included in our counseling process. I don't believe my H either, but I still want to work through this if at all possible. I just don't know what to do next.

I have read Fall In Love Stay In Love and HNHN by Dr. Harley and H is in the process of reading them as well but I think we need more than just books.

And just FYI because I know people will ask, my stepdaughter and I are not friendly and she is still very close to her dad, I guess she got over the email quickly, and she will not speak to me or tell me what the email said. I already asked her.

Advice please!!

It sounds to me like you have an ethical counselor who isn't interested in going through the motions with someone in the WS fog. Consider individual counseling with this therapist and Plan B.

Your statement "We are not getting through this alone" indicates you think that you have some ability to persuade your husband to stop his affair, and you don't, and this highly recommended Christian counselor knows that you don't and he doesn't and your stepdaughter doesn't. As Dr. Harley has told me repeatedly, and I'll pass on to you as the best advice he gave me, "The ball is in his court."

My advice to you is to go into Plan B until and unless your husband realizes that he is losing you and decides that you are worth keeping.

Trust me -- counseling is a complete and total waste of time unless your husband wants to rebuild your marriage. I should know. We're on our fifth counselor. The good news is that, this time, it was my husband who wanted counseling and it is my husband who is interested in rebuilding our marriage. One person pushing the other simply confirms the law that "every force creates an equal and opposite force."

Cherishing

I don't think I am ready for Plan B, mostly because I am not sure if my H really is having a full blown affair. I have been reading these boards for a week or so now, since I found this place, and he isn't acting like all the typical descriptions of the WH I see here. It is just so confusing because he acts very loving and attentive like he wants to work out our marriage, but I still have all these nagging doubts because I know I don't have the truth about this email to the OW. So far the only thing really suspicious he has done was delete the text messages off his phone but other than that he is home when he is supposed to be, I can check on him at work, he has been spending as much of his free time with me as possible, much more than before, and doesn't seem to be in WD or anything like that.

I guess it would help if I told you his story about the email. He admitted who it was in our first counseling session after some badgering by the counselor. It was a woman he used to work with that now works in the same office as my SD. He said that she was having problems with her marriage and was very unhappy and everyone knew it and that he told her some sexually explicit things that he and I do that she should try with her husband that might improve their relationship. Later he recanted that and said that he NEVER said that at all and that all the email was that the OW told him that her and her H were not spending Thanksgiving together and that he told her in joking that if she would "bend over and give it up for him" that maybe the could get along and spend the holiday together. I am torn up about it, I know it sounds really, really bad, but he swears it was just one email that meant nothing and that he has no relationship with her. Obviously the counselor doesn't believe him, but I live with him everyday and I don't know! He doesn't really have any unaccounted for time to be truly having an affair. Maybe he was on the verge of initiating a relationship, still in the talking phase? Maybe the SD intercepting the email stopped it before it became full blown? I don't know. Do you really think I need to move straight to Plan B?

I feel like if he would just tell me the truth we could work through this but he will not budge from his story. I have put a keylogger on the computer. I am hoping to get his work email password so I can hopefully see for myself who he is, or hopefully isn't, talking to.

Would he take a lie detector test?

Funny, I actually asked him that and he says yes. I researched it online and found where we can do one and how it works, what it costs, etc. Downside is you can only ask three yes or no questions and I don't know what to ask! But he does say he will take it. He is angry about me asking him to, but he agreed to it anyway. Swears he has nothing to hide.

Okay, I can't figure out why I keep getting smiley faces by my name when I post but I certainly don't feel smiley!

This is my first message board experience.

What are the other problems in the marriage? I would work on them while monitoring your husband.

It sounds like you found a good counselor, because, believe me, it is a complete waste of money and time if there is an affair. Our counselor believed my husband when he was LIVING with the OW and denying an affair. It was just a pile of money down the drain.

Our you owe your s-daughter a thanks for standing up for marriage. Mine hosted OW and my husband in her home overnight.

I think the smiley face means you're online.

Listen to your counselor. They see these types of cases day and day out and usually can pick up on things the average person cannot.

It is not unusual for a counselor to refuse to work with a couple if they think one partner is involved in an affair. It's sort of like giving a lung transplant to a smoker - what's the point? The treatment won't work if the patient continues to smoke.

I would do everything you can to ascertain that he isn't having an affair. Deleting text messages is a huge red flag. Maybe he wasn't having a PA with her but something was surely going on.

As for being home every night - many people have affairs where they only see each other during the day - you know, the lunch hour thing. Frequently, affair partners will only see each other on the rare occasion. Think of all the people who meet on the internet and leave spouses for someone they have never met in person. Scary, isn't...such is the power of fantasy. I wouldn't totally discount the affair theory simply based on the fact that he is home every night.

let me tell you a little secret about lie detectors. Part of their success comes from the confessions BEFORE the test. In 50% of the cases, a confession comes before the test in criminal invetigations. In our experience here the WS starts sweating bullets and then begins to spill his guts before it ever happens. More is learned that way than frm the actual test!

I would suggest taking him up on it but find one that will allow you to ask more questions. Then tell him you have found a very comprehensive tester. Stand back and watch what happens!

If he swears he has nothing to hide, then he should be glad to PROVE THAT, right?

Another thing I would do is hire a P.I. to tail him for a few days. Many affairs happen during the day and the spouse is none the wiser because the WS accounts for all his time.

Our marriage has been very rocky. It would take a novel I think to go into all of it but I will try to give a brief overview. Just please don't hate me or shut me out after you read because I have made mistakes of which I am so very ashamed.

My marriage is the result of an affair to begin with. I worked for my H when we first met. We worked together well and I admired him alot. He confided in me some which I know now is a big no no but I was very young and niave at the time. Shortly after I started working for my H his wife moved back to her hometown with their kids which was several states away. He told me she left him which wasn't a huge suprise because he had been confiding in me about their poor relationship. We started dating pretty soon after, yes I know I should have waited until he was officially divorced but I did not. We dated and fell in love very quickly and spent almost every minute together for almost a year. The whole time I thought he was getting divorced because she left him. When I would feel frustrated that no one had filed yet he said that he was advised to wait for her to file because he would come out better that way financially. Plus he said he was worried about his kids. I spent a ton of time at his house, worked with him all day everday, there were no phone calls between him and his wife, he didn't visit her in the other state but maybe twice in almost a year, I really did not have a clue that things were fishy. Then the bottom fell out. His wife found out about us and went bullistic. Understandably so, but at the time I did not understand that he had sent her back to live in their home state and told her he was looking for a job there to move back as well because she was unhappy where we live. For a very long time I did not know the whole truth and even after she started confronting me I just couldn't believe her over him. It was not until after they were divorced and we were married that I ever learned and came to understand the whole truth of what happened. My H lied to everyone. Still I believed he loved me and that would never happen to us.

Starting this way of course has caused us many, many issues with the ex-wife and the step children (who hate me) which has caused our marriage significant strife. Also, I have a son who is involved with drugs and dealing with that has been an unending source of grief and heartache. That has taken a toll as well. Also, and this is a biggy, over the years I have grown a ton in my Christian walk and suffered tremendous guilt and shame over having been a part of an affair and the destruction of a family. I have been to counseling and at one point even decided I had to leave my marriage because I felt like God did not approve because of how it started and felt like this must be why things were always going wrong. My pastor and his wife helped me through this time though and I do now believe that God can bless me and my marriage now, that he never wants divorce. He knows that I am truly repentive and I believe I am forgiven. Unfortunately I still live with the shame and guilt. It is so much worse now because part of me feels like I am getting what I deserve now that I seemed to be the BW.

It also causes it to be very difficult to believe my H when he says that he didn't cheat because I know he is capapble of lying and cheating. He did it with me! But at the same time it has been 9 years and I can't see any of the big clues like missing time, etc. that I would expect to see with him living in the same house as me everyday. He says he knows what pain he caused before and that he isn't that person anymore. I know that people say "people don't change", but I have so how can I say he couldn't have?

Anyway, I am typing the novel now so I will stop and see what feedback if any there is out there and if there is more you want to know I am willing to share...

Melody is right. Sign him up for the test, and the night before, he will most likely start confessing.

If you can only do 3 questions, I would ask him if he has ever had physical relations with an other woman while you were married, and if there has been contact in the last 3 months with the other woman. Those two questions will pretty much tell you what you need to know.

I think I will give it a week or so to see if I can get a password off the keylogger so I can check his email and then if I can't find anything definitive out that way I will sign him up for the test.

He will be angry for sure but I can't live this way much longer. I can't think about anything else and it is making me insane. I can't function at work properly and I can't sleep.

I do appreciate the encouragement about the counselor. H had me convinced I had picked a quack but maybe I will continue talking to him solo. I need somebody to talk to.

And you guys are being great. Thank you! I had been debating posting ever since I found this board. I am glad I did. It feels good to get it out and hear other viewpoints.

Believer,

I apologize in advance if I should be able to see this on the board somewhere but did your marriage survive? I ask because you said your SD hosted your WH and the OW in her home overnight and I wonder how you dealt with her after that. I am having an extremely hard time with my SD. Our relationship was bad to begin with but now I am so hurt and angry that she has the truth that I so desperately need and she won't speak a word to me. I know that my WH did this awful thing, not her, and I know she confronted him for doing wrong, but the fact that the two of them are so tight and have such a close relationship and that they have this secret from me makes me insane! I want my marriage to work out, but I don't know how I can get over my near hatred of her right now. I feel like I am the big joke. I can't stand my WH and SD knowing the truth about something that affects my life and I am the only one who doesn't get to know the truth. Plus she works with the OW and that makes me nuts to because I would bet she is more polite to her on a daily basis than I she ever is to me! Ugh!

Anyway, if you worked it out I wonder how you resolved what you must have felt towards your SD or how you had planned to while you were trying at least.

Even if we get through this issue with the OW and the email, now we have this whole added stress within our blended family!

LMJ,

Have you ever apologized to your stepdaughter? Have you ever sat down with her and asked about HER feelings? You know why she is hurt, she blames you for the destruction of her family. Is that blame justified? I haven't a clue, but you two know.

As for your counselor, you have already been told the honest truth. A good counselor won't waste your time, his/her time, and surely the money to counsel someone who is in an affair. Harley won't provide marriage counseling to someone who has other addiction problems UNTIL those addiction problems are addressed first.

Sounds to me as it did to others that you do have a good counselor. He is just not going to let your H lie.

One last thought. Your step daughter sent your H an email telling him to stop what he was doing. I am surprised you don't interpret this action as that of someone defending YOUR marriage for you. You really need to thank her for doing that. She did not have to, she has no reason to see your marriage succeed.

Frankly, your stepdaughter is a bigger friend of this marriage than your H seems to be.

I would go with the lie detector if he is willing.

One final thought, if your step daughter who has no love lost for you, sent this email to your H/her father, she must also think there is more much more than just a whiff of smoke. Ask him why she thinks it was bad enough to send him that email.

You are right things don't add up.

God Bless,

JL

Our marriage didn't survive, and the affair ended less than 2 weeks after our divorce was final.

The affair caused devastation and havoc in our family. My ex and I raised 8 kids between us. The SD that sheltered his affair has been in my life since she was 2.

When my ex was gaslighting me and telling me I was crazy, another SD told me that he had a secret affair phone. I confronted him angrily. Now I wish I had left her completely out of it, as she no longer stays in contact, and I love her very much.

I'm still close with the 2 youngest, and the oldest girl, and my SS. But the affair was like setting off a bomb in the midst of our happy family.

I suggest you do some spying and tell SD that you appreciate what she DID do.

Affairs always end, but you want to keep your family.

Just Learning,

Yes, I have had conversation with my step-daughter in the past about how her father and I came to be together and we did for a time have a good relationship. She came to live with us for her high school years and we did very well until this past year or so (her first year of college). She hit the age where she wanted to do as she saw fit and not follow house rules (lying, drinking and having sex). Her father was willing to look the other way and I was not as we still have a 14 year old at home watching. My SD moved out in late February into her own apartment and hasn't spoken to me since. I do not apologize for my stand on what is acceptable behavior. I want her to do right for her own good. Not just so I have control. She is making choices, as most college aged kids do, that could have a tremendous detrimental effect on her life. It turns out that she only appreciated me when I was doing things for her, but wanted nothing to do with me when I disagreed with her wants.

I know that she confronted my WH about the email and I have acknowledged that to her, but I still can't get past her not being willing to tell me anything else. I realize I am not being completely fair to her. She should never have been put in this situation to begin with! But she is in the middle now and she knows what I need to know. It is just so impossibly difficult to be going crazy for a lack of the true facts and know someone knows and won't tell you. I don't know how to explain how desperate I am to just know the whole picture. To be able to base my decisions on hard facts.

And just so you know, I have only had two very brief emails with my SD regarding this. I have asked her in one email if she still had the email that she intercepted. She responded with one word. No. The second email I told her briefly how I felt about what has happened between her and I, not related to the A, and than thanked her for confronting her dad but said I was disappointed that no one respected or loved me enough to tell me the truth. That is literally all I have said. I have not dogged her or fought with her or drug her all through this mess. I would not do that. I am not that kind of person. She is being a brat about a lot of things right now, but she is still a kid and I think a lot of it is what kids do at her age. Like I said, I am the one who can not get my emotions under control about her and this email thing because I am so freaked out and dying for the facts. I just can't imagine sitting across the dinner table from my WH and my SD knowing I am the clueless one and they have the truth. I can't imagine it!!

I have asked my WH the questions you asked about the why email upset the SD so much and he doesn't have any good answers.

General concensus here seems to be that WH is lying and to continue to push for proof. Man this is hard!

"The whole time I thought he was getting divorced because she left him. When I would feel frustrated that no one had filed yet he said that he was advised to wait for her to file because he would come out better that way financially. Plus he said he was worried about his kids."

Dr. Phil has a saying: "If they'll do it with you, they'll do it to you."

What do you think your WH might be saying to the new OW? I know a woman who is now divorced -- she had my son at an overnight last night for her son's birthday -- who married a man who was divorced. After he left her, she read his petition for annulment and realized that all he had to do in order to file for an annulment with her was to substitute her name for the first wife's name.

Yes, you were naive. You married a man who was willing to cheat on his wife and misrepresent the state of his marriage to a lover. What do you think this man is doing today? Is he stringing you along like he stringed along his first wife? HAve some empathy for that OW because she's probably in the position you were in a few years ago, and she can expect a rocky marriage is she follows your path.

My advice would be to rent the movie "Gaslight", consider the marriage invalid because you went into the relationship under false information, and get as far as possible from this man.

Cherishing

I very much think you were on the right path in your initial train of thought regarding repentance...I mean, could a bank robber truly repent if he kept the money?



I would be interested to hear how your pastor reconciled this with Jesus saying "Go and sin no more"...When does an affair stop being an affair? When did your "marriage" cease to be adultery?

I'm asking you these things very seriously, and not in a way to try and bash you...As a fellow believer, I am honestly trying to understand, and I genuinely care about your repentance...

Mrs. W

Personally, I don't think you have the right to put your SD in the middle of this. She confronted your husband and you happened to intercept the email but she never came directly to you. To do so might put her relationship with her father in jeopardy and he is the only father she will ever have. You, on the other hand, as the step-mother may be in her life in the future, maybe not. My father is now on his 4th marriage. I liked ALL my step-mothers but my loyalty will alway be with my dad. I don't think it is fair to expect anything less of her - no matter how much you want the truth.

I think you know the truth, deep down inside, but are having a hard time admitting it. The fact that he sent his wife and children off, had an affair and lied to you about the circumstances of his marriage means he is very likely to do it again when the going gets rough.

Even if he didn't have a PA with this woman, he is obviously unhappy enough with the marriage to entertain the idea of an OW. The fact that he got caught and maybe it stopped the would-be affair in the process doesn't change the fact that he has a tendency to run to someone else when the going gets tough. Ask him what he is planning to do to turn the marriage around. Make it his responsibility to find a counselor willing to counsel the both of us. Make him prove that he has the skills and the motivation necessary to work through the marriage problems that plague us all. Go to some seminars, maybe the MB weekend. This is not a problem that is going to go away on its own.