Protecting Women - Say What?

I had an interesting chat with my wife the other day. The subject was protecting my middle kid, a female now 11 years of age. We talked about how fathers cleaned guns when prospecting young males came by to pick up daughters. The need for female protection was clearly on my wife's mind. Males were classed as predators up to no good and young females were seen as needing the protection of male attitude and male attention.

It is that I was influenced at an early age by the writings of Robert Heinlein. Heinlein captured my imagination with his science fiction stories about young, male protagonists. Then he went off on a tangent that featured strong female characters who often had no uncertain opinions, kinda like Melody portraits on this site. So I never saw the females I dated as needing much protection from predator me. I still don't.

My wife still has this "He chased me until I gave it up," mentality about her adultery. Oh, she says she is 100% at fault; it represented the worst case of bad judgement (among many in her life) she has ever allowed, she would do anything if there was a reset button in life (there isn't) and so on.

There are subtleties to this female protection concept. Yea, and there are cultures not so subtle like Muslims.

I must confess I am terribly confused by it all. Do females need protection? I mean for events other than pure rape and the illicit use of date drugs, which is the same thing.

This has a direct bearing on attitudes about adultery. Doesn't it? I can see opinions all over the map. And I am very interested in what those opinions might be.

Larry

Larry - I think women DO need protection, although it is very anti women's lib, which is all the rage now days. I raised my sons to be protective of women because I think that is a man's duty.

In some cultures a female is "protected" so much that it gets carried away. My roommates are from Mexico and there they don't allow their daughters out of the home except for school and church. They have the mentality that all men are animals and the girl is protected by not having any contact alone until they are married.

Protection from what; themselves? rape? Why? I repeat, I am confused. Our culture as well as many others does stress female protection, so why is that? I understand the culture. I understand the conventional wisdom. I don't understand the why.

Larry

Because women are trained in our culture not to look out for their own best interests, but to defer to men. You can see this in teenage girls who do degrading things with guys for acceptance. They don't consider whether they are protecting themselves, just the feelings of the guys they are with.

Generally, women are physically weaker than men. That is where the man protecting them comes into play. There are men who will take advantage of a woman being physically weaker and easier to control when it comes to picking victims for crime. All predators (male or female, human or not) will choose the easiest target.

Conventional wisdom says a female matures earlier than a male. Is this selective maturation or general? Are females over complex to the end that they come home crying their eyes out because. . .

Are women looking for a scape goat to pretend they were bulldozed into doing what they wanted to do anyway? Is this instinctive reaction to looking for the strongest male? Is there a general female culture hidden deal here kinda like most females yak about events amongst themselves but shun boys who spill the beans? I taped a female rest room conversation when i was in college - that raised the hairs on the back of my neck when I played it back.

Larry

By way of explanation, I consider this to be a highly charged, and revealing aspect of infidelity. It also isn't simple.

Larry

I think that protection of women by men is Biblical...I enjoy feeling protected by Mr. W...I remember looking to my dad as a child to know whether or not I should be scared-say, during tornado warnings...If my dad was calm, then I knew all was gonna be okay...I'm the same way towards Mr. W...He is the calming source in our home, and as INTENDED he is the spiritual leader...The head of our household...

Here is something that was read at our wedding ceremony that I LOVE...


I'm not sure what you are getting at with this Larry, regarding affairs I mean...I could just be thick...dunno...But I'll tell ya what, I hope your mama spanked your behind for putting a tape recorder in the girl's restroom!

Mrs. W

Are you saying you think that women willingly have affairs with men and then act like victims and blame it all on the man? It seems just as many straying men will say the woman was the predator who used her "womanly wiles" on him, exploiting his inability to resist sexual temptation. That is just the nature of someone caught doing something wrong... try to ease one's own guilt by making themselves out as the pursued rather than the pursuer.

Sheesh Larry, so many questions.............

I think it is a whole societal thing. Women claim to be independent and their own woman, but long for a main they can respect and defer to.

My question to Mrs. Larry is what will happen the next time a man agressively pursues her? Do you need to lock her up in the home? Always insist she has a chaperone?

I work with all male engineers. I have always had boundaries, friendly, but not with any one guy, no lunches together, no personal talk, never saying anything that I wouldn't have said in front of my husband.

Uh huh. And most of us have said or done things in our youth that we might do differently today if we could "go back" and do it again while retaining the knowledge we gained over the years.

It is very unclear what you are trying to get at.


I think it's possible that you DO understand the "why" but you don't want to accept it. Is that possible, Larry?

If you want the "primary reason," it's because of Love, the Second Greatest Commandment sort of love.

But then if we are all just an 'accident of nature,' what difference does the question make if it's just a "cultural construct" that varies from culture to culture?

The question you are asking is driving at "absolute truth," is that where you want to go with your quest?

I am not sure where I am going with this either, which is why I introduced the subject. I really, really want to hear opinions.

Er and the recording introduced me to the simple fact that females gossip at what I considered a horrific rate about the equipment various of my friends and acquaintances hauled around but I also learned that the overall person to whom said apparatus was attached was at least as important if not more so, if you know what I mean

My mama never found out and neither did any of my friends except my best bud, who is still my best bud all these years and even HE didn't find out until many years later.

Larry

She has told me about the boundaries she has set up for herself at work and elsewhere. Boundaries are a big deal with her these days.

Her [censored] was so burned from every conceivable direction, I really don't see her going that direction again. Nervous breakdown was just the tip of the iceburg for her state of mind at the time.

Larry

FH:


Very astute question. Answer: I don't know. For some reason hidden in my psychic, I am currently looking at this concept and its permutations. This whole deal triggers "Important," in my mind. I think I need to better understand if I am to be of help to my daughter and family, including my wife. Oh, and I do act the man with my wife and the father with my kid.

Larry

Okay, then know that there are only TWO "concepts" that will result in what you might be referring to as "permutations."

1. Either human beings WERE created in by God and for God, to have a relationship with God, or;

2. Human beings are an accident of nature and there is NO "intrinsic worth" to any accident that simply happened by "fortuitous chance."


If we were created, there IS a place to go to get your question answered.

If we are an accident, then make up whatever "rules" you want and everyone else if free to make up their own rules.

It really IS "that simple."

"Option 1" makes it clear that there IS someone other than ourselves who IS "Sovereign" and who decides right and wrong, what the purpose of man and woman is, and it operates independently of any "human opinion" simply because the "one who IS the authority over all things makes the rules."

"Option 2" makes it clear that there ARE no rules and we can "make them up as we go" to suit our own wants and desires. It would seem that your question is along the lines "Utilitarianism" as a form of "Pragmatism," something that I was teaching about in Sunday School today.

Sorry Larry,
I don't get the emphasis on "women". Maybe you and your wife are focussed on this aspect of your situation. But in my mind, children need protection. And at 11, your daughter is a child. Individual children need individual protection specific to their child-like profile. I guess I would not get caught up in the "woman" and protection issue. I do think that generally speaking, girls undergo different cultural influences than do boys.

If you want to get into the issues related to sexual relations, I do think that there seems to be a general difference. But most importantly, I would ask you about your daughter--about her activities. Is she active physically and mentally? I think sports and title 9 has been a great thing for girls. I think that is how you "protect" your child. Keep them busy, know where they are at all times and know what they are doing and who they are doing it with. An active, strong, girl who is focussed on good study habits, with parents who know where she is, what she is doing, who she is with is a protected girl.

Of course, there are girls who are not interested in sports, just like there are boys who are not interested in sports. There is always music, art, literature, horse back riding, bowling, etc. etc.
Lake

Larry,

This may not be a very popular answer, but it is something I REALLY have strong feelings about.

You see, as a rule, I believe it is still a man's world out there. Not here on MB. Here, thank God, we all seem to be treated as equals. But out in the world, I find that there are still two prevailing beliefs about women.

1)If a woman cries or shows emotion of any kind or is perceived as WEAK, then that is what she IS. She is thought of as nothing more than a weak, not very smart, emotion-driven, hysterical being.

2)If she stands up for herself, or acts as if her opinion really matters, or otherwise acts in charge(this is even when she is a "boss" and is SUPPOSED to do those things), then she is nothing more than a B****.

Now I KNOW that not everyone is like this and that not everyone perceives this, but I do believe that it is the rule, not the exception.

I think this is what women need protected from and for. Men who agree that women are their equals need to say so when they see them being treated with disrespect. Women need to do their part too, but as I said I above, I think when they DO their part, no mater how respectfully, they are perceived poorly.
I
DO NOT WANT Hillary to be the President, but I sure as heck am glad that a woman was finally able to get this far. I also am not at all a feminist.

I just believe that God made men and women different and VIVA LA DIFFERENCE!!!!!!!
I think it is a matter of perception that's all.

Blessings,
WH2LE

I don'e see it like that at all.

MEDC,

I think you don't see it because you are not THAT way. I think it is why you are able to give good advice.

This is one of the reasons I like MB so much. Equal opportunity encouragement and equal opportunity 2x4ing when needed.

Sometimes when I am working I am still SHOCKED at the SEXIST comments I hear...from people who would never dream of making a RACIST comment(and thank God for that).

WH2LE

Maybe part of it is the fact that women are, by and large, smaller physically than men. And they have less physical strength than men.

Maybe it's from men like the boy I narrowly escaping being molested by when I was 16 or the one from whom I didn't escape (and, unfortunately, to whom I was engaged and later married) when I was 20.