Nope.

Doesn't sound like your problem, but if she is the primary on the utilities you need to get them in your name so she can't cut them off.

Good point. She is not the primary on the utilities, I am. I haven't responded to the text she sent but as I suspected she is trying to get another place to rent hence the urgency to have her name removed from the utilities. When/if she moves into this other rental she will be all alone meaning there will be no other person in the home but her. Her current rental is a basement apartment in which the owners live upstairs. It seems strange that I not respond to the text since just a week ago we were speaking to each other at my sisters graduation. Do you feel that not responding would come across as childish or not? I've taken the advice to not respond.

It's so strange that she can seem as though everything is okay and will be okay all the while carrying this OM's phone, which she happened to pull out of her pocket at my sister's graduation.......perhaps just to check the time but it kills me evertime I see that phone in her hands.....and perhaps she knows this and is trying to provoke me.

edite

Sorry but do not remember if you had startded plan b.

She has decided to move out then it's time to go plan B.

You should not be listening to WW on the answering machine, voice mails, or read WW emails, IM's, or texts.

Time to use a third party, best would be a sibling, to rely WW's messages. The go between needs to paraphrase WW's messages so you just have to deal with the facts and not her.

I wanted to post the 180 separately from my thoughts on your sitch.

Here's a few observations:

You still come off as desperate in your interactions with you WW. You do all the things that I did. You try to convince her or you show her where she is wrong in her thinking or you try to let her know you love her and care for her and want things back.

Well, from experience, I can tell you it all falls on deaf ears.

The greatest moment of freedom in my own healing came when I realized that any attempt to do what I just mentioned is a waste of time.

Now, as far as your SA goes:

You have no need to sign it. She wants a piece of paper she can use to sort of feel like the ball is rolling towards D and justify to OM and others that "see, the M is over it just needs to be made official".

I normally encourage BHs with kids to get SAs to secure their rights as fathers, but in your case I encourage you to not do so.

Your kids are grown. The D process is slooooow. Your son will be 18 before you're even divorced, so you have nothing to gain by signing an SA.

So do nothing. If she calls you to ask about the SA, say that you won't discuss SA and will only discuss marriage. She'll rant and rave and throw fits and spew venom at you.

Simply listen, say nothing, or even hang up.

YOU need to take control of yourself.

Go see abandonedwith3's thread. He is doing everything right.

Remember that when you want to stay "I love you" that she doesn't care.

Remember that when you want to lecture to her that she doesn't care.

Remember that anything you say will go in one ear and out the other.

Remember that she will find the most mundane things from your marriage and blow them out of proportion to justify her affair and hurting you.

The opposite of love isn't hate, it's indifference. It is good if you can get to the point where her rants and venemous words are met with silence.

Picture this, she sits there yelling and screaming at you. You're sitting there, calmly looking at her, looking bored as if you would rather be elsewhere, like doing your laundry. You sit and eat a box of cookies as she rants away. You look indifferent to what she's saying, as if she could be any stranger in the street. There's no reaction on your part. Nothing other than total coolness.

When she's done with her rant, you simply say, "want a cookie?"

She'll storm off, frustrated.

But you've controlled yourself and your emotions.

I don't mean you need to do what I just said in a literal sense. Picture that in your mind and make it happen.

Staying cool will drive her crazy. Showing indifference shows she has no power over you or your actions. Interrupting her while she babbles and saying, "hey, I've got to go, my laundry is done" means that you'd rather do anything but talk to her while she's in this state.

You will be much more appealing, mysterious, and attractive to her in this mode and not in the crying, "please don't do this" mode.

Trust me. I was there. I was the crying weeping man. I look back in shame at that and wish I could have been as I'm telling you to be.

Don't be me and I'm sure many other BHs here would tell you the same.

So don't fret and waste money on a SA you don't want. Don't spend time worrying about an SA and think instead about who you're going to hang out with or what you're going to do with your son before he's off to wherever he's going and is still a child in your home you can spend time with. Make the most of your time with him.

Read about Chrisner. His recovery is inspirational and he moved on from the WW in a very inspiring way and can hold his head up in pride on this forum and is admired by many of us here.

He has had a personal recovery, not a recovery with WW.

Thanks for the encouraging words and support.

I have been concentrating on doing things with my children. They all spend the majority of their time with me and they know where their home is. I made it clear to them that I am there for them and I will not let any of this change that and they need not worry about what was going to happen because I was not going to change or run away from my responsibilities and commitments and I loved them. This may seem like something you'd tell a younger child but I think it was appropriate considering DD's concerns. My oldest daughter (20) and I were talking the other day about WW......I wasn't talking bad about WW....DD just seemed to want to talk about the situatuion.....she says she just wished WW would tell her why she's doing this......she began to cry.....I held her and told her that WW still loved them all very much and regardless of what WW does, we will be just fine and ensured her that I would be fine. My oldest daughter has very strong feeling agaisnt he mother's actions.....as does my middle daughter.

DD1 says WW seems more like she wants to be a friend and not a mother to her. DD2 says WW always seems so defensive and it makes her uncomfortable. Funny DD2 is going to college to be a pyschology major.

As for the SA, the only concern I have is if this goes on and on, WW may decide to try to change what she has signed over to me in the SA. My lawyer and I have made some changes to ensure my protection but it then lands back in her court where she can change things. Of course, there's nothing I can do about that but as it stands, she gets nothing except the van.

Let the SA be her headache and concern. It's a nuisance to you so just treat it as such.

Grown up kids have a more difficult time than younger ones.

Grown up kids remember the good and remember the home.

OPs are invaders to their family.

WW is fooling herself if she thinks the kids will ever accept the man she's involved with or anyone else for that matter. They are especially protective of dads.

My parents divorced when I was 26. It was very tough and my relationship with my dad was strained for years.

It didnt get better until he divorced his OW. He and I get along fine now, but there is still some resentment over what he did to my family.

I tried to tell her when all this started happening that our children wouldn't accept this OM. I had a discussion with DS not long ago and he stated he would not shun OM but would not live or stay with WW if he is present, which is basically shunning OM, but I didn't tell DS that.

The Road,

I haven't implemented Plan B, I've been trying to do as good a Plan A as possible since March timeframe.....after all the begging and pleading and trying to reason with WW. If I understand correctly the only difference in the 180 and Plan B is that contact with WS is acceptable in the 180 but only under BS's discretion and it is very limited to business matters and should be initiated by WS.

It's been suggested to pour on the Plan A heavy now until my original Plan B time, which was the end of June but it seems most of you think a 180 is the better of the choices. Which would allow contact (initiated by WW and only when I want to answer) but be distant and seem unconcerned and happy.

I have to admit, that sometimes thinking of all the hurtful things WW has said, especially at the beginning of all this, is extremely painful and sometimes I just want it to be over......it's just so hard when the best memories in your life were spent with WS by your side and you've raised 3 great children together.....so sad.

Wats,

You seem to have misunderstood the advice you were given. The 180 should be in play NOW, INSTEAD OF PLAN A. Plan A at this late date is basically WORTHLESS for a BH. You've been in Plan A for much too long already. Honestly, I don't see how you have any self-respect left after this long, but I guess everyone has different levels of tolerance.

The 180 is for YOU, so you can regain some of your self-respect and feel good about yourself. If your WW sees the new you and how you are moving on WITHOUT her, then she may just come down off of the fence and follow you, but you're better off either way.

... or you can continue to do the same things, with the same results.

Hey Rev,

You act as though I'm throwing myself at her and that isn't the case at all. And how long is too long anyway? I begged and pleaded for a couple of months....true....but even during that time, while engaged in confrontations with WW, I was no pushover and called adultery for what it was. I began trying a good Plan A around March and have done a pretty good job....as good as I could. I would consider November, December and January basically Plan C....:) And yes, it was my fault for not listening better. February, started getting better and trying to implement a Plan A....still had roadbumps, though.

I understand what the 180 is and the Plan B, which are both basically for the BS to regain some respect and begin to live their lives and be able to cope better and be happy in the event there is no reconciliation. There are some differences in the 180 and Plan B. The Plan B is total darkness....180 is similar but there may be contact when initiated by WS but only on BS's terms and timetable. Rev, is that how you interpret it? Or do you feel total darkness is better....no contact whatsoever.

I have not been contacting WW nor have I begged or pleaded with her for a couple of months now. I don't call her, I don't text her, I don't follow her, I don't even know where her apartment is and I really don't care to know unless I feel my son is in danger in any way shape or form since he stays overnight sometimes there.

To all, I value all your opinions.....if anyone feels that the 180 here is too soon please speak out.....My original plan was to implement Plan B (aren't 180 and Plan B basically the same thing with minute differences) by the end of June....

Wats,

I thought about this last night, and after further consideration, I think my original advice (way back when) is more appropriate in your situation.

As I recall, your WW was offering a VERY favorable divorce settlement ... basically you get EVERYTHING and all she wanted was a van. Given you success in implementing ANY type of plan, I believe the prudent thing for you to do is to get that SA signed ASAP and proceed directly to Plan D and rid yourself of this neverending problem.

agreed

I think it depends on how YOU are doing WATS. If this is still a horrible struggle for you, then I think MyRev's advice is sound. But it sounds to me like you're actually doing ok with this, that you have your kids and are doing better emotionally.

If that is the case, then stick with the plan you set for yourself. I think that you need to have something signed to protect yourself before you switch gears and go into Plan B. Plan B seems to really get to WSs, you don't want to give her the opportunity to do something to damage the settlement she's offering out of spite.

I guess my thoughts were that Wats just doesn't seem to have what it takes to stick with ANY plan, AND his WW is willing to give him EVERYTHING, including the kids, and all she takes is a van. Wats needs to quit quibbling over minutae in the SA and get it signed while WW is still agreeable.

If he wants to attempt R after the SA is signed ... have at it ... but protect yourself, your children and your finances FIRST.

People keep giving him TERRIBLE advice to put off signing the SA to delay, delay, delay in HOPES of reconciling. I say, BS, PROTECT yourself FIRST, then work on R if he wants to at that point.

YES

W -

Very sound advice below. WW has already checked out and before there is any R - she will need to fall rock bottom. In the meantime, follow your plan - get the SA wrapped up and go deep and dark in Plan B.

I would also let the kids know what your plan is so they can help keep your plan B dark.

Yes, I agree completely MyRev that Wats should protect his rights as a father first and foremost, and then work whatever plan he can towards recovery for a reasonable time.

That sounds about like what my overall plan was. It's just good to hear all the people who've been helping me through this agree.

My plan was to get the SA signed and behind me then go dark....which would be around the end of June....hopefully. I feel the same way as most of you do as far as protecting myself and getting that SA signed and done is the final step in my families protection. I'm waiting on my lawyer to clean up the mess that was submitted by WW's lawyer and ensure the verbage is clean and there is no gray area.

I'm doing okay, emotionally....some days are harder than others and there are triggers everywhere but I've learned to focus on different (positive) things when those thoughts creep in.

All,

I'm going into a true 180 plan until SA agreement is finalized and at that time plan on giving WW PBL and going dark as suggested.

I don't want you people to think I'm just wallowing in grief and sorrow but know that I am keeping myself busy with chores and my children and I have been doing much better emotionally. I have been working out and doing things for myself and children. I am re-mortgaging the house in my name alone and having WW removed from the Deed.