Get an intermediary. You need to be doing a DARK Plan B, not one where you see him, he babbles about the OW, and you spend the evening crying............

Yeah I called my FIL to see if he and MIL could be the intermediary for visitation, dropoff, pick up, etc. If they can't hopefully I will be able to find someone who will. They are the intermediary if I need to let him know something about the girls.

What sick pleasure does he get out of calling me, wanting to talk about his day, talking about random bullsh*t, or just starting an argument? I don't get it. Especially when I specifically ask him not to. Why do waywards do this sort of thing? What kind of weird EN does this fulfill?

Most waywards attempt contact after a Plan B letter. You see, he is getting some needs met by you, and some by the OW. Everytime you let him have a fix of you, you are helping out the OW. You must go DARK and let HER meet all of his needs.

And a dark Plan B will also preserve your love for him. If you keep having contact, one day, OVERNIGHT, you may wake up and not love him at all. And once it is gone, you won't feel like trying to work to get it back.

Couldn't that happen either way? Right now, I WANT to wake up and not love him anymore. I want to be able to go on my merry little way and not feel like my heart is being twisted every which way. Is this a natural, normal feeling for a BS to have?

"He still says that the kids shouldn't be involved and that the OW had nothing to do with why our marriage is over."

Ayanne, This is classic fog babble. I bet it would be a challenge to find a wayward that has not said that. Mine certainly said it.

You really do not need to hear this and he will continue to say things without regard for your feeling as long as he has contact with the OW. You must stand strong and refuse to put yourself in a position to hear him. Do not speak to him until there is no contact and the fog begins to lift.

I think it is a completely normal feeling. I know I even tried to convince a few others that I was done with my H when he was wayard. It made me feel better, like I had some control, if I was saying I was done, it was like if I made that choice then I was not at his mercy. Know what I mean?

It is completely normal to feel like just getting over it.

You will have some days where you feel like you want him back, and some where you DON'T. But protect your heart with a dark Plan B.

That is it EXACTLY. It does make me feel as though I have control of the situation. Haha though we have our differences, most people are quite a bit alike aren't they?

Your right. I hope that my FIL will be the intermediary. I don't want another night like this. You guys have made me feel better though, thank you.

[quote= but didn't even ask about DD10 and DD12. I guess he wants to separate himself from them also. They aren't his biological children, but he has raised them the past 7 years. That hurts also. Of course, they don't want to stay with him, but he could have at least offered. [/quote]


**I know what you mean. My H raised my 2 older sons from my first M, and he was the only "real" dad they ever knew but now they are grown and out on their own, he isn't even considering them in all this. It was fine to be their dad when they were small but he's still their dad now and can not turn his back on that. At Christmastime when I first discovered the A, DS24 was crying to me about 'why would Dad ruin our family?' The grown ones are just as hurt as the younger ones and he hasn't thought much of this small detail. I believe it hurts the older kids more and makes them question their own lives because they always used Dad as an example of what a good man was, and now this image is destroyed.

>>>>> Also on the subject of FOG BABBLE...

My H says to me last week that I shouldn't tell our business (ie: expose the affair) to our friends because this will 'come back and injure the kid's reputations'. Yes, he said that if people know of his infidelity they will hold it against our children and affect their reputations. I wonder how??

Fog babble is a crazy, crazy thing. I just hope that too many ugly things haven't been said during this time to rule out reconciliation. We've both said some nasty things to one another and I, for one, don't know if I can forget some of them.

On the topic of telling children - how young is too young? I asked that on another thread here also. Should I say something to DD5? I haven't because of her age. But, she knows that something is wrong and that mommy and daddy don't live together anymore and she spends time with daddy without her sisters or her mom, so it's weird for her.

Everyone keeps saying you should. If they're that young, you can just say something like "Daddy wanted to be with another lady instead of mommy."

Your WH does not want to expose because he doesn't want to look bad, he is using the kids as a way to pull at your heart and try to get his way. HE doesn't want everyone to know he is acting like a total scum and fooling around with a 19 year old while his wife is pregnant.

As for telling your 5 year old. I don't know if she is old enough to get it. I have read that you should tell the kids and tell them that it is wrong, so they learn that it is wrong instead of you acting like it is okay, which would teach them that this behavior is okay. My daughter was 5 when my H and I went through our crap and she really didn't understand what was going on.

You can open up the conversation with your 5 year old by getting her alone for a one-on-one trip somewhere such as to McDonalds for a sundae. Then just tell her that the things going on between Mommy and Daddy have nothing to do with her, not the way she's behaved or acted. Tell her Daddy is confused and wants to get to know the other lady. Adults are crazy people sometimes and it's hard for kids to understand. (My DS agreed with this one 100%). You don't even have to blame your H. Just be firm that these changes are not going to end her relationship with either you or your WS.
You must be positive and be firm in your message that both Mommy and Daddy still love her and her sisters very much!
If children are left to try to figure things out on their own, they almost always will find a way to blame themselves for what's going on and that can be a destructive influence that can stay with them all their lives. Such as: "If I was good all the time, Mommy and Daddy would still be together".

~From a person who is very good at guilt thanks to my Mother and the messages she sent in my youth!

That is true. He knows that the kids are my heart and that by saying anything about them he can get to me. This is so confusing and so hard! I want to be able to talk to him daily and it makes me sad to be in Plan B because I feel like we should be talking all the time. BUT, I understand the concept of Plan B and hope that it will make a difference. I don't know. I don't know if there will ever be reconciliation and recovery. Some days I have hope, others I don't.

My WH dropped DD5 off today and didn't attempt to see or speak to myself of DD10 and DD12 or even his dog, who ran out to see him before we could catch her. He drove off quickly, though DD12 ran out to see if he wanted to stay a second to see the dog. He forgot to put DD5's toothbrush in her bag, so I emailed the in laws to see when they would be home so that I could pick it up. At least I don't have to worry about any hurtful things being said. I don't think he is going to like Plan B at all.

"didn't attempt to see or speak to myself of DD10 and DD12 or even his dog"

FINALLY, a dark Plan B. He didn't even attempt to talk to the DOG!!!!!

That is priceless, Ayane. You are doing fine.

LOL this made me laugh. No contact between my WH and myself today at all. I did speak with my MIL for about an hour today. We spoke a little about what is going on and more about mundane things. She said that last night he was very somber and sad for the rest of the night after I left him the message to not contact me at all. She also asked him why, if he wanted to start a new life, etc, etc, did he contact me several times a day just to talk about everyday stuff and he couldn't give her an answer. She said he seems....confused, upset, hurt. I hope he does feel all of those then he can maybe feel a measure of my emotions. MIL did say that she got tears in her eyes last night when DD5 asked my WH, "why don't you live at home with Momma and us anymore?". She said it was pitiful. Oh well.

I had a pretty good day though. Things were busy at work and I will probably be working more since a guy quit today with no notice.