aprilshowers,

Your husband may or may not be a sex addict. He may or may not be a porn addict. He may or may not be addicted to masturbation.

I'm sure you have your issues, don't we all?

His behavior would throw up a lot of red flags for me. How or how you do not handle this is up to you. The advice given to you by the folks on this board should NEVER been taken as gospel. Guidance should come from a trained counselor.

I was married to a sex addict, a porn addict, and a masturbation addict, all in one. The red flags I see are:

No intimacy contact. Cannot or does not want to look you in the eye during SF ("if I don't see you, you aren't there").

Sore on penis. This happened occasionally with my addicted husband. He would rub himself until it was raw.

Letting you masturbate yourself while he watches: That's more like watching porn. He can focus on body parts, and there's no performance anxiety. Occasionally, there's nothing wrong with a mutual masturbation session, but if it's constant, then something is off.

I could probably go through your posts and find more red flags, but I just want you to know that I don't think this is about control. I think you are being played by your H. If you have a problem with porn and masturbation, then it's not okay in your marriage. Please consider counseling, at least for yourself first, if not joint.

Taking the week-end off from posting, will post tomorrow.

Was trying to do a small short Plan A this week-end.

H spent most of Saturday at his family's house, puttering around, visiting, etc. I usually call, but never did.

They had invited H and I to a surprise birthday party for his nephew Saturday night, and I'd normally not go, because I'm very uncomfortable around his family, since they drink allot, and I was married to an alchoholic (first marriage), and can't deal too much when people get drunk.

But I went and decided that I'd be very personable and friendly, but told H if I got very uncomfortable, I'd let him know. I also have problems with his brother, who always seems to make inappropriate comments to me.

So we went. I sat with his SIL and a few other women for awhile and talked, then joined him, where he was talking to his friends.

He seemed annoyed, and I asked him what was wrong. When we stepped aside, he said that all the 'other' women were sitting together on one side of the room, and why didn't I join them. Why didn't I mingle? Well, first of all, they were drinking heavily, taking pictures of the only child there, who is about 3, of him holding up beer bottles to his mouth, pretending to drink them. Then they had him lay his head on the table, pretending to be drunk. Sorry, this was NOT funny to me. He got upset with me anyway.

We did go outside for fresh air a few times, it was VERY hot where we were. His brother came to sit with us, and I was brushing some crumbs off my blouse, and he commented "HEY, do you want me to help you brush those crumbs off your blouse"? And there we go again! UGH!

I looked at him sternly and said "NO, I'm fine"! He also said a few very inappropriate things to his stepson's girlfriend, and she didn't quite know what to say. We stayed until the cake was served and eaten, then I told my H I wanted to go, they were getting rowdy at that point. He looked at me and with a very angry look on his face and stern voice, and his brother sitting beside him said "Why can't you just go outside for awhile, I don't have to be with you ALL the time"! It's almost as if he knew his brother would probably back him up.

Just to let you know, by this time, we had been there for 2 hours.

I felt so let down, since I was trying to do a Plan A of sorts.

I stayed a bit longer and then stood up to go, he finally did leave with me, but yesterday turned into a horrible day.

He again, was at his family's house most of the day. I asked him to please call when he was done, and maybe we could meet for dinner. He was suppose to go to help fix a lawnmower, and work on the roof, but when he called me, he was drinking coffee, sitting around and visiting. I learned later that he never did anything but visit. Thing with that is, I wanted to spend the day with him, but he said he HAD to help his family.

When he called to tell me he had left, I decided to surprise him and drive out to where he was parked, taking a short nap. When I got there, he never even seemed surprised, happy to see me or anything. We finally went to eat, and then he drove me back to my car. We were parked at a Walmart, and I suggested we go in and shop around a bit, but he said he had planned on going home.

We sat and talked a bit, and I asked him if he would please talk to his brother about what he had said to me, since it's not the first time, he's done this repeatedly. I feel it's his place to talk to him, since it's HIS family. He got really angry, really fast! He said he HAD talked to him about that, a year ago, but since I don't spend any time at the house, he doesn't have a chance to NOT talk vulgar to me. What??? That didn't even make sense! I HAVE been there since he spoke to him, and it didn't matter, he still does the same thing, every time.

I told him this, and asked if he could please speak to him again, since he probably forgot. At this time, my H started screaming at me, screaming that I never go to his family's house, and he DID talk to his brother, and if I had just kept coming, the talk would have stopped, etc. etc. I couldn't believe he was screaming like that!

I do have to admit, I got angry too, and started crying and yelled at him to stop screaming. He was livid! How in the heck, does a man scream and hurt you SO bad, just to defend his family?

I told him that it felt to me, that he was certainly putting his family first, and that unless he makes me and our marriage a priority, I had nothing to say. I then got out of his car and left in my own car. I cried most of the way home, a hour after I got home, and felt numb most of the night.

Where was I wrong? What could I have done/said differently? How in the heck do I get past THIS? I actually will not talk to him right now. I'm angry and hurt and feel completely rejected. I feel he has hurt me to defend his family. This leaves me feeling lost, confused and torn inside.

I really really don't LIKE him right now! I really really think I need to take a break for a few days. But then I don't know where to go from there.

pojaman,

First of all, Schoolbus is a Woman....

'Tis I, SB, female all the way.

Just so ya know. No offense taken!


Anyway, I understand that aprilshowers has feelings.

However, I do not need to validate feelings at all. From my own perspective, feelings are often

incorrect

in many circumstances.


For example (true story!):

The other day, I opened my back door right after the tornado hit my house. I saw movement right at my feet. The hair stood up on the back of my neck and I screamed in fear (the FEELING of FEAR ran through me). I jumped and screamed and slammed the door because I thought there was a snake in between the screen door and the wooden door.

It was only a little lizard.


My feeling of GREAT FEAR was incorrect. The true feeling I should have had was a little startle, but due to the hypervigilance I had from the tornado, I was overly sensitive and overreacted.


My point being:

Aprilshowers seems to me to be overly sensitive, and seems to me to be reacting at times to small things that take her attention away from the larger issues at hand.

To wit: the largest issue at hand right now is the fact that her husband is not living at home with her!!!!!!


She's focusing on HIS issues, and in reality, the only thing she can change is HERSELF.

That is the point I keep trying to make with her.


There has been talk of his "sexual addiction", when in fact there has not really been enough evidence here to convince me that this is truly the case. IMHO, I would like to keep april's thoughts based on what the FACTS are, and not grow the facts into what things "might" be - such as, it "might be" SA, it "might be" VD, etc. She already worries things way too much - by her own admission, and by not focusing on facts and keeping things in perspective, the tendency to worry things into larger-than-life problems can get out of control.

Furthermore, it might behoove you to look up my history.

I know something about depression, having dealt with this issue in not only my own life, but with a brother and father who currently have this disorder.

My own history is significant for rape, molestation, and physical abuse as a child.

I AM A SURVIVOR. I am qualified by life experience to talk to aprilshowers, and when it comes to "validating" her feelings, hey, nobody knows them better.




April,

If you are looking for validation of feelings, I do understand.

But if you are looking to me to stay with you and NOT TRY TO MOVE YOU FORWARD, you have the WRONG GAL.

Because I won't do that.

I will never agree to not try to move you forward. In my mind, there is nothing to justify sitting with you and saying, "It's okay to sit in this spot forever and cry." Because I sat in that spot too long, april, and I know that there is nothing more powerful than taking that first step.

And the next one.

And I also know that fear that grips you.


But you know what?


I also know


The complete and totally beautiful feeling of freedom when you walk away from the depression, whole and self-reliant.


It IS possible.


And I know by doing.


And I know it didn't happen by staying and crying. It just didn't. And while it is okay to know your feelings are real, it is much better to know that sometimes those feelings must be looked at in terms of FACTS and NOT JUST EMOTIONAL WRENCHING all the time.

I ask you to really step back and look at the advice in the thread again.

Pick one action, and take it today. One thing you can DO, today, that will move you down the road at least one inch toward something you WANT.

Instead of not moving.

That is what it takes. One little step every day, in spite of thinking that you cannot do it - you take one tiny baby step every day, and soon enough you look back and realize

You have climbed the mountain.

Schoolbus

april,

I think it would be good for you to read LoveBusters. You might want to get that online.

In Plan A, the task is to try to get through these times together without asking your H to do things for you (unless it is a way to fill one of his ENs). In your sitch, however, I think it was appropriate that you ask him to talk to his brother. His reaction seems out of the norm, and I can't really understand his AO. Had he been drinking maybe, and you didn't see him do that?

When it came to the discussion with him, the only advice about how you might have handled it better would be not to yell. When he begins to yell at you in the future, the thing to do would be to calmly state that it would be a better idea to talk about it later, when things are calmer. Be sure your body language is positive when you do this, not stiff or rejecting - so when he yells at you your instinct would be to stiffen up and take a defensive posture, right? Instead, in your mind, think "relax, loving thoughts, smile, calm", and then with a soft smile and soft voice say:

"I can see you are upset right now, so it's probably not a good time to talk about this. Let's just drop it for now, and maybe talk later when we have cooler heads and have had a little time to think about why this is an issue. I'd rather make our time together positive right now, and save this for another time."

And mean it. Smile, smile, and then Drop IT. If he wants to keep talking, say, "really, let's just save it for later, I do need a little time to consider my thoughts on it" and then tell him that you are working on ways to better talk about things in conflict, and that you really need the time, and thank him for it. Then tell him how much you appreciate his "respect" for your attempts to change.


See - you are changing YOUR approach - you can't change HIS. Control what you say, how you say it. Change your approach completely, because this works, and when YOU change what is in this argumentative cycle with him, he has no choice but to also change. Any other response on his part would not make sense.




I also agree that the drinking behavior and the part about the 3 year old with the beer bottles was outrageous. I would not have liked that at all, and those women should not have been doing that! You are right to reject that behavior. Your husband's family obviously has some problems, and I wouldn't be surprised if some of the problems in your marriage have ties to his family of origin.


He is also telling you here that he feels that you have somehow rejected his family, and that it hurt him. Has this been an issue in the past between the two of you - has he brought it up before? Just some information for you that he threw out there, even though he could have done it in a nicer way.

SB

[quote=schoolbus]april,

I think it would be good for you to read LoveBusters. You might want to get that online.

Will look for that, thank you.

In Plan A, the task is to try to get through these times together without asking your H to do things for you (unless it is a way to fill one of his ENs). In your sitch, however, I think it was appropriate that you ask him to talk to his brother. His reaction seems out of the norm, and I can't really understand his AO. Had he been drinking maybe, and you didn't see him do that?

What is AO? No, he doesn't drink. He was with me most of the night, and drank soda, as I did.

Out of the norm is an understatement. He gets furious with me, whenever I try to talk to him about his family, especially his brother, concerning anything.

When it came to the discussion with him, the only advice about how you might have handled it better would be not to yell. When he begins to yell at you in the future, the thing to do would be to calmly state that it would be a better idea to talk about it later, when things are calmer. Be sure your body language is positive when you do this, not stiff or rejecting - so when he yells at you your instinct would be to stiffen up and take a defensive posture, right? Instead, in your mind, think "relax, loving thoughts, smile, calm", and then with a soft smile and soft voice say:

Gotta admit, REALLY hard for me, with all the background, hurt, anger, etc. but I will work on that, if I even see him again. There's a part of me that thinks HE may not want to see me again, and a part of me, that's not so sure I want to see him again.

"I can see you are upset right now, so it's probably not a good time to talk about this. Let's just drop it for now, and maybe talk later when we have cooler heads and have had a little time to think about why this is an issue. I'd rather make our time together positive right now, and save this for another time."

There are times that even if I do this, or attempt to, he'll not let up. Sunday for instance, even when I was crying, he kept on yelling and bringing up past stuff from years ago, even if it were still in his mind, it was totally drowning me emotionally, and I couldn't stand it anymore. That's when I yelled at him to stop, and had to get out of the car.

And mean it. Smile, smile, and then Drop IT. If he wants to keep talking, say, "really, let's just save it for later, I do need a little time to consider my thoughts on it" and then tell him that you are working on ways to better talk about things in conflict, and that you really need the time, and thank him for it. Then tell him how much you appreciate his "respect" for your attempts to change.

It's just not going to work this way with him. His anger doesn't let up that easily, and unless I walk away, once he gets going, he can cut to the core.

See - you are changing YOUR approach - you can't change HIS. Control what you say, how you say it. Change your approach completely, because this works, and when YOU change what is in this argumentative cycle with him, he has no choice but to also change. Any other response on his part would not make sense.

I need to find another approach, or another way around this, to change my way of handling it, any other suggestions?


I also agree that the drinking behavior and the part about the 3 year old with the beer bottles was outrageous. I would not have liked that at all, and those women should not have been doing that! You are right to reject that behavior. Your husband's family obviously has some problems, and I wouldn't be surprised if some of the problems in your marriage have ties to his family of origin.

Oh I know that's true! Now I'm not saying MY family isn't dysfunctional as well, and has their own problems, but yeah, his family is all about drinking, inappropriate language, and a whole different set of morals and values as me. This is why I don't go there often, and would rather never go there, and there IS much conflict between H and myself about this.

He is also telling you here that he feels that you have somehow rejected his family, and that it hurt him. Has this been an issue in the past between the two of you - has he brought it up before? Just some information for you that he threw out there, even though he could have done it in a nicer way.

Absolutely, there is anger and resentment within him, between his family and me! Let me explain.

When we first married, he spent allot of his time with them. He never even seemed to be on a 'honeymoon' with me. I never felt he made 'us' a priority or special. I did talk to him about that back then, and he became angry and resentful, and spent less time with them, but seemed to hold a grudge about it.

When we did go there together, his brother would talk inappropriate again and again. The way he talks is insulting to women, and things another married man should NOT be saying to his brother's wife. I talked to my H over and over about this, yet he would never say anything to him about it.

Thus I started staying home when he went to visit. What could I do? I'm not going to put myself in the position of being insulted and degraded. I've been shocked and beyond hurt, that my H would not stand up for me to his brother, not even seem to care what he said to me, instead get mad at ME, because I would be upset.

So when this argument occured Sunday, he brought up that I never go to his family's house, and if I DID, then the talk would stop. I can't even imagine how he thinks that. He told me a year ago, that he talked to his brother about this, but the next time I went, it happened again. I remember, I looked at my H, to see what he would say or do, and he just laughed. If that doesn't cut through to the heart!

In his car on Sunday, he screamed at me, that he talked to him a year ago, and if I would start coming to the house, it would be different. I'm not even sure where he's getting this! It's HIS place to talk to his brother and make sure it stops. If it were me (and I know it's not), I would NOT be going back to my family's house, if any of my family members treated my husband this way.

I sit here still somewhat in shock. I'm pushed aside, to protect the feelings of his family.

This is a very sad night for me. I'm sure some of you won't agree with how I'm feeling, or share my thoughts, but this is how "I" feel.

I can't seem to stop crying, I have no idea where he is tonight, if he's sitting in a strip club, or who knows what, I don't know, and I'm hurting and confused.

I've been reading on narcissistic personality disorder, and he really fits the description closely. He controls with his anger, withholds love and attention, and it's crazy making allot in my head.

I do know that if he decides to cross over and go to strip clubs, or cheats on me, it's over. That's MY deal breaker, and I knew that and he knew that, when we married. I went through that with my first husband and won't go through it again.

I know I might be ahead of things here, but I just don't know where he is, and I'm hurting, but very angry still.

I just bought Love Busters from Amazon.

Good Morning, you guys up yet?

OK so, I have an appointment at 1:30 today with a new psychiatrist. I have all my information on Neurotransmitters, neuromodulators, amino acids, etc. etc. from all the research I've done. I've also researched on MAOI's and mood stabilizers to discuss. And of course, Sam-e along with 5-HTP.

Some concerns and questions this morning:

I know I was wrong to yell at H after he began to scream at me, and I owe him an apology, but honestly, I don't feel like I can apologize right now, because I don't like him or respect him much at this time.

This is due to the fact that he will say nothing to his brother about how he talks to me inappropriately every time I go to the house. It's as if he actually thinks the way his brother does, in that what his brother says is funny and not so bad at all, and actually maybe even flattering to my H, because his brother is fooling with me in a sexual way. Maybe my husband enjoys that, and sees nothing wrong, so therefore why would he have to talk to his brother and tell him what he's doing is wrong?

Before I met my husband, his sister (who I knew), told me he was a big joker with women, always teasing them, fooling with them, and in sexual ways, thinking nothing of it. There ya go! I of course thought, that was if he's single, ok, but not if he were married. Now I don't see him do outward sexual joking, but he does do subtle flirting here and there. But his brother is the baby and my H tells me he's always gotten away with everything, and my H even admits at times, that his brother can get out of hand, in what he says, and that his sister-in-law is even upset about it.

So it's very hard for me right now, to forgive him that, to work it out in my head, that he loves me and wants to protect me from that type of language and vulgar joking, when he won't do a thing, and gets FURIOUS with me over it.

I haven't called him, I'm still very hurt and angry. He usually doesn't call when we've had big arguments before, he waits until I do, but this time I just don't want to, all though at night it's hard and I do wonder what he's doing and where he is. I still do love him yes, but I don't like him, I can't respect him right now, and I resent him for hurting ME to stand up for his family.

I went for another brisk walk today and am eating more carbs, and that seems to make me feel a bit more up. I'm drinking LOTS, and do want to lose the extra weight that I've gained since being married.

I've been thinking of some ideas, but not sure if I should do this. I've been thinking of approaching his SIL and brother, about all of this, letting them know that I love my H and want to get past all this family stuff. I want to ask them how we can all do this together. I want to tell my BIL that I feel offended by his remarks and very uncomfortable, that I want to be closer to him, but he's keeping me from doing that, by the comments he makes around me and to me.

I have a feeling it won't work, and at this time, I'm not even sure I have the strength or courage to do that. I just want it out in the open, to see if it CAN be solved, or if his whole family will be against me, and he continues to stand for them. I guess that would really tell me how things stand with us.

Is it too late, if he DOES stand by them, are there ways that he can learn to stand for me? Are there any suggestions that you guys have, different from what I'm thinking about?

OR should I just go into Plan B right now, while we're not talking? I just didn't want to do plan B while there's resentment and anger.

Thanks for listening

Wanted to report back what happened at the psychiatrist appt.

She seems to think I have either situational depression or chronic depression, and much of it is from the stuff I'm going through in my marriage.

After talking about what's going on, and telling her both sides of the story (my stuff and his stuff), she definitely thinks he has a personality disorder, and very much learning towards narcissism.

She told me that unless he wants to go through MEGA amounts of personal therapy, there's not allot of help for that PD. Of course, he would have to come in to be diagnosed for sure.

Since I'm unable to take any AD's, she suggested we try a mood stabilizer for now, to get me through the roughest time, and take it one step at a time, as things go along.

She's trying to set me up with therapy for myself also, and with my H too. Insurance coverage may be an issue, we have to wait and see.

So that's it with her ...

H hasn't called, and I really don't want to talk to him yet.

Any thoughts on my earlier posts today?

sorry for your pain AS.

I know I take heat for mentioning addiction.

If it walks like a...talks like a...thinks like a...acts like a...lies like a...disconnects like a...isolates emotionally like a...rages like a...angers like a...and does everything else like an addict....

then what difference does it make if he is or isn't an addict?

You can't do all that stuff and expect not to have consequences.

So you feel pain at his actions? Well his actions are such that they don't meet any of your needs.

If you expect his actions to change and him to meet your needs, well, doesn't look like he's interested.

That being the case, how long do you plan on waiting and expecting him to change?

I think if you follow Kayla's suggestions she will lead you to meeting as many of your own needs as possible, and not expecting or depending on him to meet any of your needs.

Please don't think me insensitive but from my perspective in my chair here I don't see him caring about any of your boundaries especially sexually. If you came back here and reported you had discovered proof that he went to strip clubs or cheated or whatever else you feel is a deal breaker. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised that he did it. I don't see any evidence from anything you have shared that he has ANY sexual boundaries or that he respects any boundaries of any kind.

He doesn't have to be an addict to act like one and he's acting like one from what you share here, so....what is he capable of? from that perspective, any and everything.

All I want to know is...
1. if he ever did meet any of your en's? What did he ever do that was good or right? and....
2. If he never does any of those things again, what are YOU going to do? lastly...
3. What do you plan to do between now and the time (whenever) that he does cross you 'deal breaker' lines assuming he continues to do nothing to meet your en's?

I hope you get set up with some good therapy and or other support fellowship asap for your own well being. YOU can do it, you deserve it.

my husband started out with porn and moved up the ladder to prostitutes and i'm a christian to.the bible talks about a manjust looking on a woman to lust after her he has already committed sin in his heart so he is looking on these and taking care of himself.it winds up being an adiction if they comtinue and you will be shut out

Hi Sushi,

I can't really say if my husband is a sex addict or not, but I'm leaning more toward a personality disorder, since he's been told this before, and the pdoc I saw yesterday said he fits it almost to a T.

If it IS a PD, then more than likely, he's just unable to feel 'empathy', and unable to connect intimately, which WOULD cause lots of problems for us.


The sore? I just don't know ... last time he had one, I was in the doctor's office with him, and the dr. said it looked like it could just be caused by dry skin. Yes, the dr. could have been trying to avoid hurting me, and yes my H has admitted to masturbating twice (that he admits) to a magazine, but I truly do not know.

Frankly, I'm quite tired of thinking about it. I'm trying to keep my focus on other areas right now, because that could just drive me nuts.

Thank you for your concern, sorry I didn't respond sooner. I'm starting therapy for myself soon, and perhaps we'll start together as a couple, and perhaps he'll agree to start his own, I don't know, but I do know I need it as soon as possible.

Talk soon

What? ...self obsession? or objectifying your partner?

Even if he isn't an addict or even if he IS, he does objectify me. This may be because of his inability to connect intimately with another person, or he has a personality disorder and is unable to empathize (which I CAN attest to).

Are you so certain you know this man? You seem to speak as if you know him with a certainty greater personal intimacy than his wife does. What makes you so sure he's not an addict in a feeding frenzy? You're just counting him in the good ole boys club? I wonder if you've ever been in a relationship with someone who just USED you to satisfy their UNnatural needs?

When you speak of a 'feeding frenzy', this sounds like what I experience and feel many times.


oh yea she's really going to the dogs now eh? What a terrible thing that she would like to have him actually CONNECT with her emotionally before he takes her body!

I really agree here! He's never said 'I love you' or anything close to intimate or loving, before, during or after sex.

I find your attitude sickening! About the control issues, um yea, I agree she has LACK of control issues.

It's time she owned her own personal power.

I agree!

To be honest, I liked that he paid attention to me, that he found me attractive, was sexually attracted to me, spent money on me, showed me a good time, a side of life I wasn't use to.

I had just came out of a rough time, lost both my parents to cancer, lost my dear friendship with a man in church, after he broke up with his girlfriend and leaned on me (we went too far one night), and was feeling very lonely.

I had just lost 50 pounds, and started flirting allot and finally having a life (I spent 10 years raising my sons and taking care of my parents).

So you can see where I was in my life, emotionally. My H's exciting side and fun life, pulled me in. Little did I know how opposite of what I wanted and needed, that really was.

But I will say, I DID fall in love with the man. That part is sincere. My heart loves him. When I married him, I took the vows and my promise to him and God, very seriously, thus why I'm still here trying and still in love with him.

The differences are much wider now, and we are both having mega amounts of trouble bridging them. I'm not sure we ever will, or ever can, only time will tell.