JLR,

I was living in a town of 60 families in the coast range of Oregon when I adopted that name. I now live in a suburb of Los Angeles. The name doesn't quite fit with the area, but it fits me just fine.

I still am proud to say that I can run a chain saw, milk a goat, shoot a raccoon with a 22, and buck a hay bale. But now I enjoy
the city life...and only long for the quiet of the country.

If you click on my name, it will let you see my posts. Go to the "first" page and you'll see my very first post. It starts my story.

I agree with your thought that some people come here to get it out. That is what I do. I do like getting responses because then I don't feel alone, but I feel like I can tell it all here. I don't feel like there is anyone else I can really talk with around me because it is such a hard thing to understand if you aren't in it. My thread has become a journal of sorts. I go back and re-read things regularly to help me to remember what I have learned.

Don't let your Hs mood stop you from working at it. I know that in the beginning I was caught between wanting my FWH to be there with me and just have everything be "normal" again, and wanting to throw him out because looking at him reminded me of the pain I was in. It was VERY hard. Your best friend, the one you rely on in times of crisis, is the very cause of your crisis and therefore is hard to be around them. I know I wanted my H to hold me and at the same time I never wanted him to touch me again.

I think from a BS standpoint, the best thing that my H did was to listen to me when I wanted space, but to keep offering to be there with me if I needed/wanted him. It sets you up for a lot of potential rejection from BS, but it also lets him know that you WANT to be there for him when he is ready.

Sheesh, this is torture reading your struggle. He still hasn't talked to his family and you haven't sent the letter?

I know that he is hurt, but it has been such a long enough time that things need to be getting better. D-day was 2 YEARS ago? When was NC established?

Will he spend 15 hours a week doing fun things together?

I take the moods as they come. It reminds me of when we were first working on recovering our marriage. I know that my lack of time with him during busy season coupled with failure to keep him updated with everything has set us back. He said he thought could trust me but when I told him about the $500 after three months had past that it brought back all the memories of how I lied, cheated and he wasn't sure he could trust me...he thought he could but then this brought back everything. All the triggers resurfaced. The MC says that the triggers are subsiding...good sign, I think.

Things had been better...oh so much. We were so happy again. Enjoyed life and each other. Moved forward with IVF and when it was determined what was causing my infertility and that it wouldn't ever be an option for me we had our homestudy completed and found an adoption agency. About a week after my husband said he didn't trust me and wasn't sure if he could be happy with me we got the call that a birthmother had selected us. For obvious reasons I told them while it was hard to say, we just weren't in a place to bring in a baby right now and now our profile is no longer up for a birthmother to review.

I see where I made mistakes in our recovery. I thought we were more solid than we ever had been and slipped back into a bad habit (work) and when the hours were wearing on me I told myself, just get through this. This is the last busy season and then going forward you can have a life and enjoy your time with family and friends. Then I relied on my memory during this time of the year. I really didn't mean to keep the money from my husband, it was just never in the fore front of my mind when I made it home. It would pop up in there at work but it didn't seem big enough to call my husband, he doesn't like it when I call for silly things during work hours. I should have sent him an email and told him to remind me to talk about X...I've done that in the past and have no idea why I didn't this time. Sometimes, it feels like I'm being punished for being honest but I know that is just the selfish side of me and have to tell myself to grow up, your here because you made the wrong choices and didn't do everything you should have or could have to protect the one you love.

The last contact with the OM was in September 2007 - I sent an email responding to his voicemail to me because I knew that my emails were automitically forwarded to the OMW. The OMW called my husband wanting to know what was going on. Please recall, that this was before I found MB and thought I was protecting my husband, I hadn't told him about the OM call or that I had emailed knowing it would go to the OMW so she would know what OM had done and put stop to him. Now I know this isn't very MB of me but a part of me wishes I would have just deleted the voicemail and not let the OMW know. Then again part of me wishes I wouldn't have said anything about the money, it wasn't like it was missed and I knew my gf was going to repay, just in financial situation...I know, not a good thought process to have while at MB but it goes to my irrational side, I know its irrational, I have the thought and let it be. Of course, if we are going to be in 'wishing' mode I just go back to the stupid decision and change it. But I digress and babble.

I won't send the letter to his family. Ouch, can you imagine reading that as a mother? The letter, if he allows it, is something I'll give him to give to them while/after he talks to them. Then again, maybe I'll get the chance to tell his family with him.

We have been spending more time together. Its not up to 15 hours a week but this is more by my husband choice than anything else. Correction, this is by his choice. I think part of him is completely afraid that I'll tear his heart again and he'll be played the fool. I've read about BS recommending that others have the WS take a lie detector test, GPS, PI or keylogger. I thought about suggesting to my husband that he can put a keylogger on my work laptop and on the home computer and have the email blast sent to him. I would take the test, put the GPS in my car (but if I know its there, couldn't I just take it out at anytime to make it look like I'm some place else). And I'm trying to think of a way that post-nup would help him with the trust. All these things always lead me back to his family...right now, where he is, I could do all these things and more but if the family isn't there to support our marriage it won't do any good.

I think the part that concerns me the most is my MIL. She had three sons and my husband is the oldest...she has told him that he is her favorite. I've never been quite good enough, some of that is just my own insecurities when it comes to parents and some of it true but I don't think anyone would ever be good enough for her first born. My issue, I'm working on it, slowly but steadily.

Have you read all about the POJA stuff here. It is where you both agree not to do ANYTHING unless the other person is in enthusiastic agreement.

At least in the case of the loan to your friend, it might have helped, because you would have discussed it first with your husband.

He is sensitive right now to anything that he may perceive as a deception.

The whole telling his family thing is going on too long. He should either do it or don't do it, but dragging it on and on is not conducive to recovery.

And hubby needs to make his own decisions on his family. I've raised 2 boys and always swore that I would LOVE whomever they chose for a girlfriend or wife. I HATE the whole "no one is good enough for my child" crap.

In many ways your husband sounds like me. I'm one of those people who needs to 'know' things. I mean really, really know.

Is he an introvert? We introverts tend to need a lot of time and quiet to process things. I'm 2 years in as well so I think I know where he is coming from.

Trust me, if after 2 years of your committment to the marriage, he is still around, he has no intent to leave. He just wants to 'know' or understand how you could have done what you did.

I can tell you one thing, he has to get over that himself. His family knowing will not answer that question. I'm so glad I never told anyone what my wife did. There is no one in this world who understands my wife like I do. How could I get advice on what to do when I know more than anyone else about her?

You husband is hoping for a magic pill that is not coming.

If he wants to heal his only option is to let go.

The loan to the friend didn't start out as a loan. Five GF went on a trip together for shopping in another state. We are all good friends and instead of you pay this, I'll pay that and try to keep track of everything as we go, we always just put everything - food, air, room related - on one of our credit cards and add it all up at the end, divide by 5 and boom, this is what your cost of the trip was. It was in early December and my credit card bill wouldn't come until January so I wasn't worried about it. My GF said she was tight in January and asked if it was ok to wait, I should have said something, I know that, but $500 wasn't a big deal. I knew she would get me. The months dragged by and she still talked about the money and even thought about a payment plan...wasn't sure when she would have that much at once. I've read about the POJA and love the concept. I think back to some of the things that have caused tension in our marriage - this would have been wonderful. Little too late here. Doing what I can for the future.

I know that this deception, even though it was not intentional, harmed my husband and us. This is why I'm learning about a better relationship and how to be better accountable for things in the future. What I might not percieve as a big deal could be huge to my husband. That is not for me decide. I just hope that it isn't too late.

My hubby is very much an introvert. Slow to process and slow to respond when in deep discussions. It is like he is afraid to say the wrong thing. Part of me really thinks that he's here, he's been here, we've come so far (& now a huge step back) that he is not going to let that stand in the way. I think he was over it but then when things were fragile I kept something from him and it makes him wonder if I'm keeping more - I'm not.

The whole telling his family, if it helps him, I'm so fine with it. I know that it will be uneasy for me but really maybe this is his form of retribution. He felt/feels aweful and this is how I can make ammends.

It was so nice when he got home from his game last night. Once again it was normal between us. Laughing and talking. This morning we cuddled, at his initiation, and I don't recall the last time I got affection right now when it wasn't to lead to SF or after SF. It was so relaxing and has really boosted my mood.

Aren't we all looking for that magic pill?

Just keep on doing what you are doing. Sounds like things are still okay.

POJA is a life long plan. I wish I'd known about it before my ex had an affair. When you both enthusiastically agree before either one does something, it makes everything so much easier.

Maybe your hubby wouldn't not have stayed away working so long.

But that is in the past, and now it is time to work on the future.

Believer – looks like followed your advice (“keep doing what you are doing”) without knowing it last night.

Well I don’t know if I wussed out or trusted my gut but I didn’t bring up talking with my husband’s family. I left one of the short notes Jennifer talks about and things were still good with us, he didn’t say anything about the note but he sat and ate supper with me. We talked and laughed a little, caught up a little on tivo and then he needed to do a little work so I took our dog for a walk. While watching a little tivo he was lounging on the couch, which is something different since for the past few weeks it has been more of I’m snuggled up to this end of the couch and you are at that end of the couch and don’t you dare try to cross that line…I relaxed more on the couch too and there were even times when our fingers touched.

I’m not sure if I’m trying to convince myself that it was ok to let the issue sit for another day or just trying rationalize my choice or if I really did make the right choice to not bring it up last night. Sometimes when things are good you don’t want to rock the boat. At this point, it will be this weekend before I say anything. Just want to see how long the good lasts – deposit those units – and then, with some peace and calm, see where things stand. The problem will be doing it without it seeming like I’m pressuring him. I have a MC appointment tomorrow. I’ll see what she has to say on how to broach the topic (of course, I welcome suggestions here too).

It’s actually hard when things are normal, if that makes any sense. I feel hopeful – something that I haven’t had much of without talking myself up – and that’s scary when you are waiting for the other shoe to drop. It’s a bit like walking on eggshells, you know things are fragile and could hurt you but your doing your best to step lightly and still get where you are going instead of being stuck in a place, afraid to make that next step because it might hurt.

Oh, where is my Magic 8 ball when I need it. It held all the answers when I was 12.

On another note, I had my first session of the EMDR last week. It was quite draining, something I didn’t anticipate from it. It seems to have helped. I feel more at peace, even before the slow change in my husband this week. The counselor said it takes on average 5 – 10 sessions for everything to work and sustain. Last week we focused on when my mother choose to be with her husband instead of wanting to stay with me and the car ride with my uncles to my new home. Even now it doesn’t upset me when before it was more of my rational side telling me that it was her deal, not yours, and I would have to remind myself that I was the child and couldn’t control it but deep down I felt so unloved and really, if your own mother doesn’t love you, who will…right now I don’t have to go through the rational on why I shouldn’t feel unloved when people leave you. Its nice to feel confidence here instead of faking confidence. I fake a lot of confidence.

Well last night was another good night. My husband wasn’t as free talking as he has been the prior to but it wasn’t like he was all closed off to me. I got home after stopping by the grocery store and he was working but said that he had just gotten home and wanted to download his photos. I was a bit confused by this comment but was, oh, ok and went on getting supper ready and folding the laundry quick. After we ate, again together at the table (trust me, big strides here) he ran out to get gas for the mower and I took the dog for a walk. By the time I got back my husband was back inside and on the computer. I asked how long he needed to work and he said he didn’t, he just wanted to get the photos loaded; he was just checking on the baseball scores. Ahh, the comment when I got home now makes sense – it was his way of saying I’m not working tonight. (BTW, I have asked my husband to walk the dog with me but he needed to work one night & then time for me and last night got gas and mowed, then time together.)

We played a three game series of cribbage where I was the lucky winner of a 15 minute foot massage. Great feat – he has been kicking my rear-end in the cribbage series. While playing, I asked what time his game was tonight. He told me and then asked if I would like to go. I liked this, I was going to ask but to have him was nice. I’m sure my “Jennifer note” put the idea there. My enlightenment was on time together, ways we had in the past and something I missed. My example was going to his games, riding together was time together and watching him filled me with pride and so forth. I’ll take this a positive sign and keep doing what I’m doing. No “I love you’s” but right now I’m not sure I’m in the positive with him yet. I made cookies last night, had a craving, and they were a big hit. I use to make this fantastic cake but really cut back as we got older and our metabolism slowed down, but I think its time to bring it back for the weekend. Maybe a little extra around our waist would be ok. Then in addition to walking together with our dog, we could bring back a little running. We use to work out together, we still work out but we allowed our schedules to rule and haven’t worked out together in months.

It’s hard to be cautiously optimistic. It feels like you are sabotaging yourself. Hopeful but trying to prepare yourself for the hammer to drop. Then I feel guilty when I try to prepare for the worse because what if I am sabotaging myself. I think that some people do have “self-full filling prophecy’s” and what if by being cautious I’m one of them, my steps are preparing for my failure. Just need to tell myself, go slow, go at his pace, don’t worry about 6 months from now, think and live for today…which is sometimes easier said than done.

Any thoughts on a good time to broach talking to my husband about telling my in-laws? Part of me thinks, he’s waited this long and is still waiting so maybe he still isn’t sure about it and if I bring it up it may feel like pressure one way or another. Then again, maybe he has it worked out in his mind how/when and the when just isn’t yet.

How about on the way back from the game? I read that it's better to talk serious in the car cos you're not facing each other so it's not seen as much of a confrontation, just 'feelings.'

It's possible he's decided not to tell them and is just avoiding the subject.

Sounds like you are doing well. Often people feel jinxed when they move toward recovery. But if you look at it like you are learning to make changes and have a better life, with or without him, then it is worth the chance.

Personally I don't think the in-laws need to know this far after the affair, but I'm sure that is not an MB sentiment.

Jinxed - that is probably a good term for it. We've been good before, really good, and I thought we had survived. I just don't think I realized how fragile our relationship would be for so long...and really maybe it wasn't fragile and my husband now has needs that have changed than what I'm use to and I failed to adjust to those needs.

I will say, never again, assuming we can get move forward together, never again will I think that we are super strong. It won't be because we are strong, it will just be setting us up for some type of failure. Some things at work are changing and I found myself thinking, well maybe I should see what happens and stick around. Stupid, stupid girl...within seconds I remember how much time it takes away from my husband and during his slowest time of the year (our busiest times of the year are complete opposite). This girl will never make that mistake again, no career is worth it.

re: in-laws, this is his call. I just need to support it the best I can. I think he knows some of the problems it could cause which is why it hasn't been rushed into on his end.

Thank you for your words. It is helpful and thoughtful.

Well it was a day of golfing. The front nine, TERRIBLE, the back nine, much improved...by 15 strokes. Yes, the front was that bad. I understand that recreational activity is one of the EN for guys. I would say that it is one of my top ones too. What I don't understand is why, how well I do would affect my husbands mood to me. The front nine was normal but the back, I crushed the tee shots (at least I crushed them for me...short game, needed further improvement) but the way he looked at me, spoke to me, was much different. Is it enough to do things together or must the other person be really good at it too?

Don't get me wrong, I want to win and I'll do things until I get it right and become good/respectable at it, but is it too much to expect to be good at everything we do together? I hate being bad at things but I grew up on the farm next to a town of 1,400 people. We had the basic sports and not much else. I'm going to have a learning curve. Sorry, just seems like pressure right now, knowing that I have to be "on" at all times (& I'm a sore loser).

Sometimes I hate thinking about the past, thinking how I could have choosen differently and wondering where that path would have lead me/us. I've been trying to live in today but when the future seems so uncertain its difficult.

I was looking at the valentine's day card that my husband gave me. Reading the words he wrote, remembering how thoughtful he was (& I'm not a v-day kind of girl) makes me think back to last fall. Seeing him smile at me, remembering that only a few weeks ago he still said he loved me and we were planning a future together. Thinking about building a home next to his brother and sister-in-law, waiting for a birth mother to choose us. These are not acts of a man who doesn't love you.

How did I turn off that love? Thinking, I know we were in recovery or at least getting there, and I messed it up. I want his love to return. I've thought of things I can do so I don't lie by ommission (falty memory) on things that really shouldn't matter but because of the fragile state I put us in tiny things are magnified. Today I was wondering if I had read HSHN when we were first married if it would be different, that we would have made different choices together or if we would have been too arrogant to think that this would ever happen to us - that either one of us was capable.

If I can't respect myself how can I expect my husband to respect and love me. How can you respect yourself after you've hurt the person you've loved the most in your life.

Anyone?

Does this mean members feel that our marriage is beyond hope?

I'm just like others here, looking for help and support while trying to heal our marriage. Please.

jlr,

Hang in there, you're doing all that you can do. I seldom post but do read fairly often. My wife's last affair was in '97. I still struggle with some issues, but not very often and usually I can put them in perspective and "get over it". It just takes time and a lot of understanding from you to get through this.

Good luck.

xring

Thanks.

I'm not really looking for my husband to get over it. We had built a better relationship and now want to have an even better one. There are things now that I realize that kept our relationship fragile, things that I took for grantit because I felt we were solid. Didn't think that we could back slide.

I guess I'm just looking for words now and again on what I'm doing wrong, what I did right and where I could be doing more. This is my issue but I thought I could find some support here. Sometimes it feels like I'm invisible here and I could just as well write to myself. Like I said, my issue.

I just want to do right by him.

He did ask me to run with him last night (kind of - it wasn't straight forward but I can't have everything). First time in a long time that he suggested something together. And he sat in the middle of the couch, not just on the end. I know it sounds silly, childish, but these are huge for me.

Those ARE huge things. Sometimes you have to be very subtle about your assessment. Don't get down about people not posting. I've found that certain people follow certain threads, probably because of time, and those people come and go because of their own time constraints. For example, I had 3 years of taxes to prepare this past week, and I had training all day today at work, so I've been away from the computer.

In my opinion, the number one thing that leads to the most success in a marriage is total honesty and total safety to BE honest with your spouse. It's when we start feeling we can't tell our spouse what we're really thinking that we start down that unhealthy path. Make sure he knows he can tell you whatever he's feeling, and that you won't trounce him for doing so. Make it safe. And start talking, about every little thing, so it becomes comfortable for you both to talk to each other like best friends should.

I totally support this approach.

Go to his parents together.
You begin with an apology and a confession.
You describe what you've learned from making that huge error.
You display your gratitude and appreciation for their son.
You appear human, humble, grateful, and gracious.

Your husband supports you.

This is what REAL recovery looks like.

Pep

I would like to tell his family with him. That is not my choice. I can only do what he allows where this is concerned. He is unsure if wants to work on our marriage and doesn't feel the love he use to have for me. If I pressure him into letting me be the one to tell his family it would be a DJ to him. At this point I have to defer to his wishes. I think he wants honest feedback from them and feels he wouldn't get that with me there.

If anyone has suggestions on how to impress on him the importance of me being there - the one telling and asking forgiveness and support for our future - I am all ears (or in this case eyes). I just don't know how to negotiate this into an ending that we both can be happy with. It is something that he feels he needs to do and to do alone.

I thought I needed to be respectful of his wishes here and not make it look like I am trying to control him. He needs to feel like his influence in our relationship matters. How do I do that here?