I'm so sorry you had to go through that! UGH! I know words can't explain how hard that must have been for you!

As for me, I continue to pray, am taking new medication for my mood, taking better care of myself, and seeing less of my H, also not having sex at all for now (we don't live together).

All I can do is the best I can, and let God take care of what I can't do.

Big Hugs to you!

So HEY HEY .. to those of you who say I don't reply to posts, WELL, I just finished replying to most of them I think. My fingers are SORE!

I also read ALL of them!

Now I'm waiting for you guys ...

You've done some nice work AS and you have started your own path. Starting is what takes the most effort so Kudos. You deserve every happiness.

I hear what you've said about how he made you feel sexy and found you at a time of grief and loss in your own life, then gave you a fun loving escape from it all, primarily thru making you feel valued for your sexiness.

It's not going to be easy for you to hear but it sounds like you tend to play right into being objectified as a sex object, and that you get your own sense of value and validation from being in that role. That's something you could explore with your therapist. You may be your own victim as much as his object.

Mostly, I want to commend you for your progress thus far.

If you wanted to explore another support network where you could chat online in real time using mirc and talk to other women who face similar emotional histories to what you have shared who have empathy for you, I can hook you up with the server and channel info for the SLAA fellowship.

You know, I think you're right ... I think that's something I just might have played into with him, when we met.

There are things I could discuss about that, but this might not be the place, so yes, I would really appreciate you showing where I could go for that support.

Thank you

are you familiar with mirc? it's a chat software. you can download it free at mirc.com and install it.

Then the server is Starlink.org and channel is #SLAA

here is the fellowship website SLAA

Anybody out there?

Can't sleep, woke up feeling a bit sick, so thought I'd write some thoughts and recent events.

Met with H last night for a cheeseburger. Kept pretty quiet, was pleasant when I spoke. After we ate and were having coffee, I approached the subject of BIL with a MB principle.

I calmly asked him if we could together, come up with a plan, to handle the situation, OTHER than his thoughts on me exposing myself to the remarks, by going more.

He thought for a minute then told me that apparently I wasn't the only one who his brother made uncomfortable that night, and that when he was at his brother's house Monday, his SIL told him that after we left, there were several other incidents, and his brother and SIL got into an argument about all of this.

Soooooo I'm not alone here, and that proved to him (my thoughts), or SHOULD have, that it's his brother, not me.

I asked again, what could we do, to handle this.

He sighed and said that several people apparently have talked to him about it, including his SIL, and nothing changes. His brother doesn't stop, and doesn't seem to care what anybody thinks, even his wife.

I did say to my H, in a very nonjudgemental way, that perhaps his wife needs to do more, put up a boundary of her own, or get some counseling for THEM. My H said that yeah maybe, but his brother probably would never go.

I then suggested that we could, as a united front, sit down with BIL and let him know how uncomfortable I am with this, and that I want to join the family more, for visits, holidays, etc., but feel I can't, because of this. I even suggested that I could say this, if H is too uncomfortable to, as long as he provided a united front to his brother and supported me.

His response: At first he brought up the same thing that started our argument on Sunday. He said that he HAD talked to him a year ago, and he truly believes that if I had started going more at THAT time, things would have changed. Man oh man, I was thinking inside, how can't he SEE or GET this? It's right in front of him, that as late as Sunday, there were problems with 'other' women and his wife, because of this, not just with me.

But I stayed calm and told him that, that no longer applies, because we're talking about NOW, the present, and we need to handle it NOW. I did thank him for talking to his brother about this, that year ago, and said perhaps I should have gone more, to see if things changed, but I was very uncomfortable and didn't want to expose myself to the POSSIBILITY that it could happen again, and that I hoped he understood that.

It still seemed like he didn't get it, and still seemed annoyed at the fact that I wouldn't acknowledge that me going more often would be the magic cure a YEAR ago. UGH!

OK, so after that, he somewhat agreed that we COULD try talking to him, but seemed VERY reluctant to, and uncomfortable with the idea. I just do NOT get it! He had proof from his SIL that this is happening to OTHER women, and that his SIL is upset about it, why in HECK, does he insist on staying with the 'year ago' thing? And even NOW, that if I just went more often, it would magically dissapear?

I got to say, as calm as I stayed and put my boundary up with him continueing to talk about the year ago, it made me feel sick inside, to see how he was stuck on that, and how it was if I'd never get him to get past that, and how it made me feel inside.

Unheard, Unacknowledged, and very Unloved and Unprotected.

Not sure if the 'talk' with BIL will ever take place, not sure what to do at this point. I asked if anything was planned for this holiday week-end, and there's something going on Friday night. He's going, and there's really no time to talk to BIL before this, so either I go and take my chances or I don't go, and he goes without me and enjoys the festivities, which I really feel is unfair to our relationship, but feel powerless to really do anything about, at least for this situation.

Sure, I can stay home, find my own things to do, etc., but it's a constant hurt in my heart, that we're not together, as a couple, for our marriage, standing united, at these family occasions.

So that's it for now, any suggestions on this from you guys? Anything I can do more? Anything I can say more, or that might help? Did I handle it yesterday ok?

Thanks for listening.

Going to post this in both areas, since I'm talking about this subject both places.

Poja, I'm going to download the software, then I'll install and see if I can find that server/channel.

Thank you

April,

Keep things simple during the next few days - your personal recovery won't happen overnight and you can burn out rather quickly trying to do too much.

Good conversation w/your husband by the way. Your patience in that conversation was excellent. You didn't use the inflammatory words I would have used to describe your BIL which would have really provoked your husband into his screaming again. You didn't give him any excuse to do that.

Self-care looks good too.

I would encourage you to NOT talk about tender subjects while around your husband. You are building your own level of confidence and when you talk about his family, you are vulnerable - so talk about his interests - the music, the activities, etc. This will allow you to discover his emotional needs without risk of conflict where you lose your enthusiasm to stay with this relationship. You're already fragile that way.

Then, during the times when he's not around, you are focused on YOU - resting, exercising, and learning. He is not your concern; the marriage is not your concern - simplify what you have to pay attention to so that you don't trigger the emotions that feed the depression. Remember that when you are not with him, there is nothing to handle in that regard. So no anticipating, mystical mind reading, or any other such "what if" worrying, etc.

you'll find that there is someone there to chat with most of the time. There is no best time really. People come and go but usually someone is there. It's one of the few places I know where I can find someone available to talk with me almost any time of day or night.

April,

Okay, here's a suggestion that might get you around the "his family" thing:

Why don't you invite them to YOUR turf?

You control the beverages served (no alcohol), you control the length of time (keep it simple - invite them for a specified amount of time, say two hours), and you control the "why and when". What I suggest is that you have a little get-together that is for a specific purpose that you select - maybe someone's graduation, or birthday, or I don't know....National Potato Day.

You say, "I'm having a little get-together - come over on Saturday from 8-10, we will watch the last episode of Scrubs and eat dinner together" (or whatever it is!). It limits the time, and you control the turf. I'm trying to get the idea across that maybe part of the Plan you have could be to show your H that you are trying to make friends with his family, while protecting some of your own boundaries by giving you some control. Maybe if you don't want them at your house, you could have a little picnic at the park or something (choose a park where no alcohol is allowed). Just throwing an idea at you to get you to think outside the box, and to get you thinking along the lines of what YOU can do to be more proactive, and more in control of the things you can do yourself to take the reins in this thing.


I noticed that you talked to your husband, and you said you thought about what you might say in advance, and that you were able to be calm during the talk.

Excellent.

This is exactly how you need to handle things. It keeps the lid on the AO's (Angry Outbursts), and also gives you the much more realistic perspective you need going into these very difficult conversations. It enables you to react to his comments with calm, rational responses - and how did he react? Differently than before - right???? He didn't scream and yell, and neither did you.

Because, YOU changed something. The logical response on his part had to be that because you were calm, he had to be calm. Otherwise, he looks like an idiot. Now, there's no guarantee that he won't do something idiotic, like ramp up the anger to get you stirred up - yell at you, or say something outrageous. But, if you have given thought to the possibilities beforehand, and if you have worked on ways to remain calm and not react with AO's, then the likelihood of you returning fire with fire goes WAY DOWN. And the tenor of your conversations changes drastically - it has to, because otherwise one person is screaming and one person is completely calm, and that looks nutty - and the nutty one knows it, and either stops or walks away (usually later to return and apologize!).

You stated in one of your posts that you knew that you only controlled yourself, but that his actions and behavior affected you. Certainly his actions and behavior affect you, emotionally (and financially, and in other ways) they do.

However, you choose your REACTIONS to what he does. Choose well.


I like that you are thinking about confronting his brother together - this is a very good plan. It looks like your H is reluctant to do this right now, but I think your H is embarrassed. I don't necessarily think he doesn't "get it". I wonder if he just does not want to have to deal with this again, or "still" (in his mind), because it was probably really hard for him to do the first time around - and here it is a year later and it hasn't gone away. I wonder if this is something that makes your H feel something of a failure? He has attempted to deal with this issue, it has not gone away, and you have had to repeatedly address it - and now this issue looms as one of the largest obstacles in the way of the repair of his marriage. Your offering to go together is nice, but I'm not sure how much help you want to offer in doing the talking. Men do want to do the defending of their womenfolk(there's an emotional need at work here!), so you would know your H best on this issue.

Kudos on walking and feeling better when you did it. That good feeling you got when you did that was the equivalent of science's best antidepressants. So when that need to "sit" comes on, fight that feeling. Tell your mind that it is WRONG - that "sit" means "get up", and do it.


Regarding your feeling that you have been abused by your husband. Only you can make that call - I'm not there, your psychologist/psychiatrist is not there, none of us lives your life. You live it. I lived through abuse, and I know it, and that is your call. I respect your call.

Finally, you said you know you should apologize to your H for yelling at him, but you are too angry at him, you don't like him right now, and you don't respect him.

You still should apologize. Because apologies owed should be given, regardless of how you feel about a person. If you wronged someone, you owe the apology, plain and simple. An apology should never be withheld because you have negative feelings toward someone - if you owe it, pay it. It is the right thing to do, and will earn you more respect than you might think. Can you think of something more respected than an honest and sincere apology given to someone who knows the giver does not hold them in high esteem, or even as a friend? If your worst enemy gave you an honest, sincere, public apology, and you KNEW it was fully and completely sincere, wouldn't that raise your respect of that person, even if you still didn't like them at all? I think it would for me.


I see progress in you. Keep posting. Keep reading the books. Even if your marriage is not recovered, that does not measure success. You are on a journey here, and your first mile marker is to focus on your personal changes.

Success is the journey, not the destination.

Schoolbus

Aprilshowers, you're getting very good advice here, and I have nothing useful to add as far as advice goes. But, I did want to ask you about your interaction with your BIL.

When he says something inappropriate, how do you respond to him? You'd mentioned that when he said something inappropriate about your blouse the last time, you finally said sternly "No, I'm Fine!"

Might I suggest that you stop waiting for your H to defend your honor, as it sounds like he's not really in the place of wanting to do that for you right now, and respond ~ I don't mean react ~ to the BIL yourself? You are precious and important, YOU shouldn't allow anyone to talk to you like that. Stick up for yourself! My H, who is a cop, would come to my defense if necessary, but he knows I would stand up for myself first and foremost!

The very FIRST time your BIL says something disgusting or inappropriate look him straight in the eye and CALMLY and ASSERTIVELY say "I find your attention revolting. Do not speak to me again. Ever." He may laugh it off and try to make YOU feel like you're over-reacting, but hold your ground. You will probably have to do that several times. But DO it! Stand up straight, make eye contact, and repeat those words verbatim every single time.

You don't have to justify or explain yourself...it's obvious to everyone WHY you wouldn't want him to speak to you. Your H and his family might act like you're over-reacting, but they will respect you for it...but more importantly you will respect yourself.

Just throwing that out there for your consideration, because I hate to see anyone allow themselves to be treated disrespectfully.

Lori

I may be pulling out of this marriage soon.

I'm pretty sure I don't want to try anymore.

I'll keep you guys informed if you'd like to be.

Thank you all for everything.

Thought I'd explain: There's too much emotional and verbal abuse from H, to continue trying. I'm completely worn out, and after quite an abusive week, I've decided I no longer want to put any effort into my marriage.

I still feel sad, but also I feel, if I don't do this, it will destroy me. I don't know what or how yet, but I think I'll just tell him, I'm finished. Not sure how it'll go, meaning if he'll just accept it or not, but we'll see.

Again, thank you for all your help ... not sure anybody is reading this now, but I do appreciate your advice and care.

April

April - you'll know you are ready to take a step toward ending your marriage when it is no longer about his reaction or response. If you're done, you're done.

If it's about wondering what he'll do, if he'll finally come around, that is a very cruel and manipulative thing to do to him.

Make sure if this is the step for you, that you take it for the right reasons.

Don't forget - you can't just get up off the delivery table in the middle of labor just because you're tired and hurting. Finish the delivery - that is, the process of improving you.

Prayers for your peaceful transition to life - whether that be divorced or married!

I have been watching this thread, wondering how you were doing.

Remember how I told you that I felt like it was the end of my world on Oct. 16, 1994?

When you feel like it is the end of your world it may be the beginning of a new world for you.

Have you visited the SLAA channel on mirc and chatted with anyone there?

you must be doing something wrong, someone is nearly always there.

this is the platform..
mirc.com
this is the server..
irc.starlink-irc.org
this is the channel..
#slaa