We have a serious problem. As some of you know my husband and I took in my husband's 15 yo nephew to live with us when he was 12 yo. During an ugly divorce and custody battle, his mom made allegations that his dad was sexually abusing the children. His mom was killed in an auto accident in the midst of all of this and the kids were immediately put into foster care.

His dad pled guilty on the poor advice of an attorney and is now labeled a sex offender. It has since come out that the mother was bribing the daughter to say things about her dad so she would win custody. However, our nephew has told us that his older brother DID abuse him sexually.

Our nephew was in his 4th foster home when we finally found out and went and got him. We felt like the older two were beyond our help as they were almost adults.

The first incident was shortly after he arrived, my husband walked into the living room where my nephew had our 2-yo granddaughter in his lap. With his history, we were wary and have always made sure that he was never alone with our grandchildren but my husband questioned him at the time about what he was doing. He said he was just holding her and they were watching TV.

A few months later my husband came home and my nephew had his pants down leaning over a footstool watching TV and "rocking". We're getting worried by this time. (BTW, we immediately put him in counseling when he moved in. It was a condition pre-guardianship.)

We were awarded permanent guardanship. Fast forward a year or two and my husband discovered my nephew masturbating. Turns out he did it nearly ever day. This is iffy because he's a normal teenage boy, right? But we're really getting concerned now. My husband asked him how often he was doing this. My husband questioned him again about what he was up to that first time he walked in on him holding our granddaughter. It was at this point that our nephew blurted out, well I only did it that one time. WHAT??? He admitted that he had been "humping" her.

We were freaked! We got him some more counseling with our pastor and became even more viligent.

Now. There's another issue. My youngest daughter (22) has been staying with us with her children. She came to me the other day and said, "Mom, this is really weird. When I take a shower in the morning, I'm usually in a hurry hustling the kids to get ready and I just lay my clothes on the bathroom floor, but I'm always careful to hide my underwear because I don't want them laying around." (Because we're in tight quarters, and they're only here temporarily, there is no place to store their things for now.) She said for the past four days, she's come home and her underwear have been laying on top of her clothes. Our nephew is the only person here after they leave in the morning. I told her to do it one more time just to make sure. This time she hid them way into her pants and folded her pants so there would be no question.

We get home and she checks. Her underwear are on top of her clothes again. We know now what's going on.

My husband is out of town so I sat my nephew down and said, "Don't try and lie. You've been caught. What have you been doing with _____'s underwear every morning?" Talk about a deer caught in the headlights. He said, "I've been taking them to my room." I said, "and doing what?" He's been masturbating with them. He said, "I haven't tried them on or anything." What????

I'm just sick. My daughter is horrified. This is beyond a normal teenage boy thing. Right? I don't want him in our home anymore. I can't watch him 24/7. I think I would hurt him seriously if he laid a hand on my grandchildren.

Am I blowing this out of proportion? What do you guys think we should do? Do you think our nephew has a sexual addiction? I'm freaking here.

I am the most understanding, giving, accepting person in general. But I would have him gone tonight. In good conscience I would make sure it's a safe place for him, but I would not allow him near my family members.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{PM}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Are you family members safe from him? Can you call a hotline and ask them for help?

NO! I don't think you are blowing this out of proportion.

Do not leave him alone with your grandchildren for ONE SECOND!!

He needs HELP for sure..IMMEDIATELY..


((((PM))))

This kid is in need of alot of help. You cannot get it for him if he is still living with you. He needs to be in a controlled environment where he can get the help he needs 24/7. The kind of counseling he needs is way beyond what your pastor can provide.

This kid is 2 steps away from becoming a pedophile/rapist. If he is not in intensive therapy asap he will slowly go from stealing panties to sexually assaulting somebody.

You have to protect yourself and your grandchildren. You need to get on the phone and find a program for him now. Before he hurts someone or himself.

This would have done it for me.

Have you notified the authorities?

Oh PM...

I do NOT think you're blowing this out of proportion! I think it's very commendable of you to try and help him. His sitch is tragic. But beyond anything else you must stop the cycle, please don't take any more chances when you have your dear grandchildren in the house.

I'm with Marshmallow. I'd have a h*ckuva time not going ballistic. I'm glad you're better than me at remaining level-headed, but something definitely needs to be done. You are not blowing this out of proportion.

If he's in counseling, have you spoken with the counselor? How about child protective services? Is there a social worker involved, since he was in foster care?

I'm so sorry. Your family is in my prayers.

We were asked to look at this thread by another poster. Neak and Neaksis are both asleep. I'll have them look in the morning, but for tonight (if you see this), I'm bumping the Neaksis thread on child molestation for you to read. It will give you some valueable insights on this subject, and maybe you will recognize additional behaviors your nephew is displaying, after you see this thread.

We will be glad to help you with information in any way we can. Let me just say this--you need to do something to protect the younger children immediately. If they have not already been molested, they are well on their way simply by having your nephew around. If they have been molested, they must be gotten help for this and the sooner the better. We have lived this horror for the last 7 years and I wouldn't wish what we've gone through on my worst enemy. We're just FULL of information, every single bit of it obtained the hard way. Let me see what they can come up with in the morning, OK?

Thank you ALL for your replies. My husband is out of town but I've called him and my nephew's father to tell them that this is it for me.

I know without a doubt that he has not molested my grandchildren. We have NEVER given him the opportunity to be alone with them, even if we're in the house. Now I know we were right to do that.

Thank you, thank you, thank you. I looked all over the internet last night trying to find information but I didn't see anything like this (pre-sex offender behavior).

I'm getting ready to go to work and I'll answer more after I get there.

Thndrnltng, thanks for the bump on that thread. I just finished reading it. Scary stuff.

Our nephew is a spooky kid. He's very small for his age. When he came to live with us at the age of 12, it was more like dealing with a 9-yr old. He had never been taught any manners and his personal hygiene was almost non-existent. We taught him that he had to brush his teeth and shower EVERY day, etc.

The norm for him was getting slapped in the face when someone was mad at him. When he first came, he would flinch when someone raised their hand in conversation. It was sad. He has a video of his 3rd birthday party where his older brother gets mad at him and slaps him upside the head. He told us that his mother always slapped him when she was mad and that even one of his foster mothers slapped him.

It's almost as if he is asocial. He never displays emotions, even when he's in trouble. He's never VERY happy or VERY sad. He never cries and rarely laughs. He has some weird philosophies about life (no wonder) and is a pathological liar. I mean this kid lies about stupid stuff, even when he doesn't need to lie.

As for the questions about involving the authorities, we DID tell CPS about our concerns about a month ago. After living with us for two years, we couldn't handle the lying and acting out (in subtle ways) any longer, we needed a break. So we sent nephew to stay with a lady from our church and her son who was nephew's best friend. He was there for about four months.

Apparently, someone (we suspect the church-lady herself) called CPS and accused us of abandoning our nephew even though we provided financial support for him and saw him each week at church. We kept in touch with his school constantly. Anyway, CPS did an investigation and noted that the allegations were "unfounded".

She did say however that our nephew needed to be back with us since we are his legal guardians. We told her about the "incidents" and our concerns. Her response was that "masturbation is normal for teenage boys and it sounds like you've done a good job making sure your grandchildren are protected. Just make sure he's never alone with any young children." Well duh!! My husband and I just shook our heads.

She also suggested counseling for him but this kid is a counseling pro. He's been through so much counseling over the years that he knows how to play the game. We eventually had to stop the counseling because his father could no longer afford it and there's no way we can afford it either.

Now this. I called his dad last night and told him that he needed to find somewhere else to stay and that he needed serious help. My daughter is mortified and wants him gone. I agree. My husband told me to hang on that we would deal with it when he got back. I really don't even want this kid in my home anymore. In the meantime I'm going to try and find some kind of program to get him into(hopefully a residential one!)

Just wanted to add my agreement that he needs to be out of your home! Yes, he needs help, but he needs it away from the temptation of small children. He sounds like a pedophile waiting to happen.

You would not put someone to work at Wal-Mart, who is struggling with kleptomania. You will be doing him a favor, yourself a favor, and the kids a favor, to find another place for him.

I agree. I'm working on it this morning. I have to wait for my husband to get back though before we actually make a move. The state obviously doesn't think he has a problem and I really don't want to put him back in the foster-care program to get even more lost. I want to find him some help and get him out of my home at the same time.

Does anybody have any good recommendations for Christian-based teen residential treatment for this kind of problem? I'm going to look into Teen Challenge but I don't know if they'll take him with these kinds of issues.

Why can't his dad come and get him, today? Or what about the maternal grandparents?

I'm just trying to think of ways to get him out of your house TODAY. Could CPS come and take him until either your H comes home or there are no children staying at your house? Surely they would understand, and would not consider that you were "abandoning" him, simply that you are protecting the other children?

As for long term, I hear you that he knows how to play counselors. But can't something be done? (I'm not saying that in an accusing tone, but rather in a frustrated, worried tone.) It seems to me that unless something is done, he will eventually cause great harm. Surely CPS has programs, or counselors (free or on a sliding scale) for this sort of thing?

Do you get support from CPS, like foster parents do, or are you sort of on your own since you are relatives?

Oops, was posting and didn't see your reply. I see you've already considered and ruled out having CPS take him for now.

PM, please understand that I am NOT criticizing you. If there's one thing we've learned in the last 7 years, it's that children engaging in deviant sexual behavior are incredibly sneaky, unbelievably ingenuitive, and compulsively driven in their behaviors. Neaksis can write about a few samples we know of, if she wants, since I've got to get ready to leave for the tire shop. You feel that you've kept him from having any opportunities to molest anyone, and yet the above happened. Unless someone has followed him around all day, and has sat up to watch him at night, he will have sought oppotunities for repeat contact. They're quick; they're subtle; they're determined. Don't lull yourself into a false sense of security by thinking that you've gotten to the bottom of everything.

We are some of the most alert, aware, watchful people there are regarding opportunities for childhood sexual contact, and yet our kids still managed to fool us a distressing number of times. People looking at us might think we've put some weird, tight boundaries on the kids in this family, but it turned out to be what was needed to protect them from their own compulsions. My personal opinion is also that you should not think of him as a "potential" sex offender, but as someone who already is one. However, closely you watch him at home, if he is still out in your neighborhood and at school, he has opportunity, and you may well be seeing only the tip of the iceberg.

I'll call Neaksis and ask her if she's got time to get online this morning or if it will have to wait till afternoon. She's our resident expert; her adopted kids are the most disturbed of the group. Neak isn't far behind; although her bios haven't been affected quite as severely, they've been damaged enough, let me tell you!! I'm the disciplinary "heavy" and the owner/operator of Granny's Boot Camp for the Intolerably Recalcitrant, so I defer to their day-to-day expertise (and who ever said we wanted to be "expert" in this, anyway? ) when people have questions.

DO NOT IGNORE THIS BEHAVIOR. Whatever you do, don't ignore it.

This paragraph in your description of him triggered something to me:

Is it possible that he has an actual antisocial personality disorder? Check out this link for more information on this: http://www.cerebromente.org.br/n07/doencas/index.html . I don't intend to scare you, but it's easier to deal with difficult situations when you are armed with as much knowledge as possible.

PM, please go back to the Neaksis thread and towards the end there is a link to the Reactive Detatchment Disorder website. It lists symptoms of RAD, and Neaksis' immediate reaction today when she read your description of this boy (which contained significant behavior clusters) was, "Attachment Disorder." RAD children "work" the counseling system; they're experts at it. Conventional therapy does not work on them. Conventional disciplinary techniques are useless. If he has RAD, he can be helped, but only by using specialized techniques specifically geared towards this problem.

After years of counseling, the kids in this family have made their first significant steps towards recovery after we found a therapist who knew what they had and treated it with the right methods. Up till then, with the best intentions in the world, we were just spinning our wheels. For years. And unable to figure out why nothing "worked" for us when we were trying so hard.

His dad cannot take him because he's still on probation from his conviction (the reason my nephew was taken from him to begin with). He will be off probation next May and the plan has always been for them to reunite. He can see him now but only in the presence of a qualified (trained) chaperone (my husband, myself and his fiance).

There are no maternal relatives living (that we know about). No one else in the family is willing to take him (although they sure tell us what we should be doing!)

We get no state support. They bowed out of the picture and closed their books when permanent guardianship was granted.

Thanks...

You are absolutely right. We have no way of knowing what he has done outside of our home. Until yesterday, I wouldn't have dreamed he was this far gone. I KNOW we have to do something and QUICK. I'm just sick and appalled about this. I've got this yucky feeling in my gut about the whole thing.

OMG, RAD makes so much sense with all the upheaval in his life beginning at age seven. I was beginning to think like Tabby suggested, that perhaps we had a psychopath in grooming on our hands. I'm going to suggest RAD to whomever takes over.

I just don't want to deal with this anymore. I truly REGRET ever getting involved in this situation. The whole point of us taking him was to keep him until his dad got out of trouble so they could be reunited. Now I don't even know if that's ever going to be possible or the best thing for my nephew. His dad is very passive and carries alot of guilt for the destruction of his family. He "babies" my nephew and tries to minimize our concerns.

My priority is the safety of my grandchildren and other children to whom he may be exposed.

I think I've found a place for him to go. It's a Teen Challenge residential camp for boys his age that specializes in this kind of stuff-- stopping it before he really does hurt someone. It is Christian-based, which is important to us and it comes with good referrals. I'm talking to them about a possible scholarship, otherwise, with the small SS check he gets each month, his dad will have to fork over the difference. I've always thought he should be paying child support anyway.

PM,

Your nephew may be autistic. Has he ever been examined by any one knowledgeable in this area?

"It's almost as if he is asocial. He never displays emotions, even when he's in trouble. He's never VERY happy or VERY sad. He never cries and rarely laughs. He has some weird philosophies about life (no wonder) and is a pathological liar. I mean this kid lies about stupid stuff, even when he doesn't need to lie."

That is kinda right out of the autistic handbook.

We have friends whose child is autistic and even before puberty the kid choked his chicken, but since puberty, way more than usual.

There are different levels of autism from severe to barely. He might be in that barely category.

You may want to check. Then the options on what to do with him kind of change, yes?

IMHO

kirk