H says it is really over this time, that he is finally sure he wants to stay, but had been telling me and our counselor for the past year the same thing. He is getting help, but cannot answer why when we had went through recovery and were doing fine and meeting needs he went back when she called and said she had left her husband. I can't trust him at all now. If he can't tell me why he went to her, how do I know he is really truly over her. I think he's hiding more and trying to figure out how to get me to commit without telling me. I say until he can tell me why he did it, and how he's going make me certain he won't ever again, I can't commit. We're getting nowhere. Any suggestions?

I said we should call her and he tell her that he's sorry he hurt her and led her on and he doesn't love her and let her scream at him so I can hear it in their conversation that it is over. He says he's afraid she's suicidal - never said that before. I know that doesn't fit the Joint Agreement - there is nothing in it for him - except to save our marriage!!!!

He's still seeing/talking to her, isn't he?? Time to boot him to the curb? Thanks for any suggestions.

What is the WHOLE story?
How long was the A?
Was it a PA or EA?
Did he leave you for her and then come back?
When was d-day?
Did he write a NC Letter?

From what you have told me in your post, it sounds like he has returned to you? If that is the case, then he needs to send a letter of no contact.

I fought this idea at the beginning and bought all of my H's reasons why it was a bad idea. In the end, it brought ME a lot of peace to know that he wrote it and I think it helped my H to put down on paper what he did and what he was going to do in the future.

It is not your H's responsibility to protect OW from anything. He is not hurting her by sending a NC letter. He is hurting you by NOT sending it. If he is committed to your M, this might be one of the first things that will help you to believe him.

I don't think that "why" he went back to her is important to focus on. He was wayward...think alien abduction...My H still can't explain exactly what he was getting from OW. I don't think he's lying, I think he just doesn't know yet. Your WH may have gone back because from a distance, he remembered the excitement and forgot about all of the bad stuff. He may not really know why.

The BIGGEST thing to focus on is that he CAME BACK and wants to work on your M with you. You can never really know what motivates another person. You just have to decide if there really is ANY reason that you would accept as good enough justification for his returning to her. I think there probably isn't a good enough reason, because it was wrong to do.

Decide if you want to work on the M with him. Get NC in place. Then start working on MB principles. It does work.

Good luck.

HB,

So sorry you are here. You have every right to expect NC and when you read up on what needs to occur step by step, you will see that a NC letter is essential.

Hang in there and you will get some great step by step advice. Try not to do any LB's as much a possible if you want to work on this M in any way, shape or form. You don't need to start behind.

P.S. I know exactly how you feel wanting to be there while he calls her and I have been there and sometimes I feel vindicated and sometimes it doesn't work out the way I want it to. My WH is a repeat offender as well.

Run.

first time, it was a month and a half before I found proof
this time, a month

It was EA, with email sex, kissing, petting first time, but I found out just in time; says not as EA this time, but made it 100% PA

Both times he chose to end it and stay when found out, though I told him he could move out, go to her or stay without anymore contact with her - but not after an extreme amount of denying, lying, and making me feel at fault last time, and I accepted my responsibility for emoticnal needs issue then. This time he accepted 100% responsiblity and so I can't see why it happened if needs were met except that the addiciton set back in when she called and left had her H and wanted him. He says he was just comforting her and when it progressed to PA, he was physically ill because he didn't have a good reason to be there.

D day was end of March. He made NC phone call while I listened in, changed cell number, blocked her number and email, told me when she did call at work, called to set up counseling and has been 100% fine - and I always know when he's not, even if he denies it. He also told a mutual friend at the office, so exposed himself so he couldn't sneak around at lunch or make work calls without possibly being exposed.

He would love to claim alien abduction or temporary insanity, but will all the careful steps he took to hide it this time I'm not willing to accept that it was just an unintentional fluke.

before i feel safe in commiting to believing him AGAIN, I have to have something for me that shows he will not go right back the next time she calls and he answers. I know there is no 100% guarantee, but I'm ready to run if there is nothing more than, you need to trust me this time! I don't!

We have 3 kids all teens. I do love him and want to work it out but I feel abused and I'm don't have a cheek left to turn . . .

I just saw that your husband had an affair with the same OW 3 years later!!! What is LTA? I am so sorry, and that just confirms to me that there isn't any amount of time that can pass that you can be sure he won't go back to OW

I really am appreciating all the comments, but yours made me laugh out loud and it felt good. I know you are serious and I will take the recommendation seriously, but needed the laugh too.

thank you so much, i didn't know how much i needed to hear the support and sympathy, it really makes me feel better knowing someone gets all the things i'm going through.

i am unfortunately very much doing LB this time, he his trying to convince me to commit and i told him i would give it until school is out for him to convince me why i should stay. school is out the first week of June, he's been making all kinds of deposits and no withdrawals, but I can't get past being betrayed the second time with nothing I had done wrong on my part according to him. It was easier when I felt I had some responsibility, now it looks like it is a major character/emotional flaw in him that I don't know if it will ever be fixed, especially when he can't say what it is. He is in therapy, but that has not progressed far yet, had to change counselors.

I can't stand the holding pattern, I have to decide, but needed some understanding but objective listeners, i appreciate it very much

HB

Hartbreak,

I've been where you are and it sucks. After a year of continued lying, continued contact, and many false recoveries, I decided it was enough for me. He wasn't committed to the M and I knew that NC was probably not going to be a long term option for him.

In my case, we sold our house and I moved. I've been in Plan B now 9 months. Only you can decide how much you can endure.

I'm sorry you are here....

What medc said!!

I'll just add: FAST!!

thanks for the comments all.

maybe the monitors can answer this - is this sight largely people in the process? I am getting the idea that those that succeeded in rebuilding trust and moving on are not on here. I would like to hear from someone who stayed after a recurring affair and things are working and why they think they succeeded. or once a cheater always a cheater?

HB

Infatuation is an addiction, literally. It's an addiction to another person, Just like an alcoholic is addicted to booze. An alcoholic can stay dry for years, just so long as they stay away from the booze. But, just one drink, and BAM (my apologies to Emeril) they fall off the wagon and are re-addicted.

Likewise with an infatuation. Your H is likely addicted to OW. Despite that he hasn't had contact been going through councelling, rebuilding your marriage, etc., he is still addicted to OW, and as soon as he has a new contact with her, BAM! You're back to square one, and he has to go back through NC and withdrawal.

He should do a NC letter, as recommended by Dr. Harley. DON'T LET HIM CALL HER, even with you on the phone. NC means NC. You should review and approve his NC letter, and you should be the one to mail it. You may need to put a block on OW's phone number.

Upon hearing "she's suicidal", I think I'd hand him a phone and say, "Here. Push her over the edge."

My dh's was a LTA.

We are recovered-ing-ed-ing....it's a process.

As for the OW, if I could get paid a penny for each one that plays the suicide card, I'd be a rich, rich woman.

Rarely do they go through with it.

It's emotional extortion at it's lowest.

LTA - long term affair...my H didn't have what Harley qualifies as an LTA because it wasn't more than 4 years, but I think it qualifies.

As to your question about HOW you know if he will ever go back to her...you don't. And it was something that I had to really think about a long time before I decided to stay. I'll tell you, I have friends who disagree with my decision...they say that he'll do it again. But I am willing to try ONE MORE TIME. Not everyone is willing to do this. You may feel in your heart that you are done. If so, then you have to do what is right for you. I don't know that my decision will prove to be the right one, but I have hope.

My H is TRANSPARENT. ALL of his actions tell me that he is worth trusting...all day, every day. He has to SHOW me commitment. I watch his actions and have access to EVERYTHING. He knows that at this point, even a "whiff" of infidelity and I will leave. Not because I don't love him dearly, but because I will not allow myself to be treated that way.

Everything my H is doing tells me he is committed to our M. We see a counselor once a week. We spend 15+ hours together alone. He has done all of the questionnaires with me and we are working to meet each other's ENs. He checks in with me several times a day. Anything that I need, he does. This is not to say that I am dictating it...he is trying to meet my needs because he wants to.

Only you can really know the ins and outs of your H well enough to decide if he is committed. You have seen it twice before. If you really think about it, I bet you can look back and SEE when he was heading wayward. If his actions are showing you his commitment to your M, maybe you should give him a last chance and call the "inbetween time" a false recovery.

Did you do MB between the two parts of the A? What did you do to recover? What EPs did you have in place? I think that if you look back, you will see that there were flaws in the recovery...just a hunch...

Good luck. But you need to decide, not let him "convince" you.

I appreciate your support and sharing what you are going through. I am exhausted with it all and not being a good parent, wife or anything.

We did couples counseling last time and they recommended some similar exercises and meeting needs, but he buries feelings that he doesn't think I want to hear or that he doesn't think he should have, so I'm guessing he didn't deal with the withdrawal and the infatuation came back more than he even expected. But he says he was not as EA this time. I know he wasn't in it just to be a comfort to her.

He is very much at peace, doing counseling and mindfulness stress reduction and it just makes me mad that he can just distance himself so easily and think it is all okay when I'd still like to wreak havoc on both of them to the extent they did to me. I am way beyond resentment and angry as hades still.

I've suggested separating to give me time to see if I miss him, but that is so hard on the kids . . . time to believe him or leave him.

It is so hard. In our MC, I commented to him how I felt like every time we came we were dealing with MY challenges...that it isn't fair that H created the situation and I'm left with the mess. Our MC said that is a common feeling for the BS.

I asked my H if he was upset and he said no. He said that before he told me there was a ball of negative energy rotting in his stomach and now that he has come clean, he feels peaceful. He feels relieved. That makes sense...even though it's not fair.

I think you are right about believing him or leaving him, but you need to give yourself time. How long has it been since the second d-day? I was a DISASTER for at least the first month and I am still a wreck on a regular basis.

Give yourself time to think and feel. Let the emotions settle. Let your H work on things with you.

hartbreak,

I have an almost identical situation that I have been in for the entire 6 years of my marriage.

I would be happy to share my story with you and maybe you can find some solice in knowing that you are not alone.

In the end, you have to find some strength to pick yourself up and take action that makes you stronger regardless of the outcome of your marriage.

You can email me if you like, should be able to find my email in my profile.

Thanks, would like very much to talk, but your email doesn't show, not sure I have rights to see that. When I tried to PM, said I had reached my limit, you can try to see my email or PM me.

HB