I have a long thread on Other Topics but a fellow MB'er suggested I come here for some advice. I'll try to condense this as short as possible.

She gave me the ILYBNILWY bomb in dec 07. Whined and moped for 3 months listening to fog babble. DDay was 2 mar 08. OMW found out by emails and exposed to everyone, WW and OM are military (so am I)and got in big trouble. The A was while deployed, he lives in another country so physical contact is no longer an issue. Her career is basically over, she retires in oct because of fallout.

She's angry because I had an A 5 yrs ago that she saved me from by not exposing. She's stressed about retirement, her job is very demanding and she's been non-stop since she came back home working 60hr weeks and weekends most times. I've been in Plan A since. She has yet to commit to repairing or recovering our marriage. Whenever I talk to her about the A or anything involving our marriage she goes into rewind mode and rehashes our troubled past and how she can't live like that anymmore (of course I didn't think things were anywhere close to bad, just normal marriage problems, I was wrong). She had remained in contact with him by cell phone under the guise of handling the legal aspects of their situation but I had it out with her about it and she relented grudgingly to NC. I can't confirm or deny NC and she doesn't care whether I believe or not. She says the biggest problem with our past is my jealousy and controlling nature that made her feel stressed and smothered, she vows never to be like that again. I vow never to be like that again, with or without her. She says during our intense discussions that she doesn't want to work things out, but also says that all the stress she has on her right now doesn't make for a sound decision so she leaves the possibility for reconciliation open. No commitment, just the ope ended chance that things may "work out naturally".

As of today, I avoid all relationship talk. I got that advice from other people here and it seems to work for now. We get along pretty darn good, no fighting, no arguing, nothing. We do some things together when we can (tennis, shopping, lunch) basically spend every minute away from work together either at home or out doing things. She still talks of the future together but once in awhile talks like she's going off to do her own thing when we leave here (england). We leave in 6 months and leaving here will do both of us wonders. Her being away from her job (retired) and me being away from triggers. We have 3 kids, one D back in the states 23, D16 and S14. They do not know anything yet, besides mom and dad are having problems. I've talked to them about it and gave them reassurances.

So here we are, 6 months since she returned and dropped the bomb on me, 3 months since dday. I've been plan A'ing my [censored] off all this time and I seem to have made some progress. When she first got home, she wouldn't give me the time of day. Now, we're friendly, she talks with me and we laugh and watch TV and do things together (going to germany this weekend for daughters softball tourney), hoping for some quality time. We're still planning our summer vacation to Hawaii for her brother wedding, all arrangments bought and paid. Now here's where I need advice.

She still seems distant to me. We don't kiss at all. I get to kiss her on the forehead for goodbye or goodnight. She does say I love you most times on the phone or on emails. She rarely says she loves me to my face. She doesn't touch me at all, maybe a rare hug here or there, very tentative. There have been 2 times that I thought she had broken through. Both times in bed where she crawled over and laid on my chest, the first time she cried and said she was sorry and that she missed me. The second time she just laid on me and slept and rubbed my head and chest. I remember these times vividly because they are the only signs of affection I've seen in 6 months. Granted, dday was only 3 months ago and I don't count the first three since I hadn't found MB yet (I was a mess, doing everything wrong according to Plan A). I did get to peck her on the lips once in the last 6 months, I forgot about that. So, since we're not actually in bad shape, just kind of cruising, not making much progress other than being very cordial, I'm kind of wondering if I'm on the right track. The lack of affection is killing me, I'm still not happy that she can't commit to repairing our marriage, and it just seems like were treading water. How long should I remain in Plan A? Am I expecting too much this soon? Am I doing the right things? I wonder if possible telephone contact with OM is keeping us in this situation? It is impossible for me to confirm and I vowed not to bring it up again because any of my enquiries further reenforce her position of my past controlling behavior and jealousy, which I promised her I won't ever do again. Everytime I've brought the subject up, my love bank is immediately emptied of what little I've managed to deposit. She still maintains her concern for him as a friend and expresses her concern for his welfare from the results of his punishment (he hasn't received his yet) have no idea whats become of his family and kids. As of 3 weeks ago, maintains that she hasn't contacted or been contacted by him. I don't know what to believe, one part of me wants to believe but another wonders why we're not making any progress. Are my fears unfounded? I know I said I'd make this short but it seems very complicated to me. I'll take any veteran advice there is. I've thought about Plan B but it would be impossible for me to take the kids and move out with no family or close friends to stay with. I've thought about moving out on my own but there's no way she gets to enjoy the kids while I'm out and suffering because of her choices. We can't afford to rent 2 houses and it would be stupid to do so with only 6 months left here.

Anyway, just looking for some support or advice. If I'm doing the right things, please let me know. I don't want to do anything to spoil positive progress if that's what it is. But if I'm surrounding myself with BS fog, I'd like someone to tell me that too. I'm trying to stay positive, it's the only thing that's got me this far.

thanks

Dino,

Sounds to me like your WW is still deep in the fog. Insisting on and confirming NC following a PA is neither controlling or a LB. It is simply a fact of a marriage. Marriage is between two people not three.

It sounds to me like you are still fearful that your WW will leave you if you establish boundaries but it also sounds like you guys are pretty much stuck together for at least six months. That is a perfect time for a Plan A. Do NOT leave your home. Plan A but don't expect anything back, Plan A is about improving Dino to the place where WW remembers why she fell wildly in love with you to begin with.

Read all you can get your hands on about Plan A. Have you read SAA?

Say

Saynomore,

What is SAA?????


Thanks Paul

Surviving An Affair by Dr Harley. It's the BS (betrayed spouse)handbook. (:

Say

Dino,

Your WW is in withdrawal and it will probably take 6 months after your WWs last contact from OM for withdrawal to be complete. My WW took a long time to warm up to me as well. She ended the A in November, she broke NC several times up until January, and we didn't really get intimate again until June. Just keep it up for 6 months after NC has ended and then reevaluate your situation again.

Dino, Plan A is only intended to be for a short time while the affair is under way. If the affair is indeed ended, then you should abandon Plan A and agree on a plan of recovery with your wife. Like others suggested, I would get Surviving an Affair by Dr. Willard Harley. You can order on this website for a low price with fast, cheap shipping.

Here is an article that will help you understand what it will take to recover your marriage, but I would also suggest getting phone counseling from the Harleys if you can afford it. [$185] Steve might be able to get your wife engaged in an active PLAN to recover your marriage.

This was on this weeks Marriage Builders Q&A newsletter that comes out via email [to get on the list, go to the home page here and sign up for the newsletter] http://www.marriagebuilders.com/index.html

Requirements for Recovery from an Affair


Dear Dr. Harley,

I discovered my husband's affair in May. He was very repentant, ended it and has been working very hard on our marriage ever since. I was not familiar with Marriage Builders at the time and I just followed my instincts. I suppose we are in recovery.

But our communication skills are almost non-existent. We only talk about things that are "safe." My husband’s idea of dealing with his affair is to put it behind us. I need to talk about it to heal. I am still having nightmares and sleeping little. I know nothing about this woman, including her name. He has refused to give me the information because he feels it is over so what difference would it make now. He has agreed to counseling but has been dragging his feet.

Our communication skills are so poor that I can't even bring up his affair for fear of "rocking the boat." He will not read any books or discuss the reasons for his affair with me. I am terrified it will happen again.

We went for a few counseling sessions over a year ago (before affair, communication issues) and it was a disaster. It was so much psycho-babble that neither of us could stand it. Where should we go from here?

Please advise.

K. R.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Dear K. R.,

The plan I recommend for recovery after an affair is very specific. That's because I've found that even small deviations from that plan are usually disastrous. But when it's followed, it always works. The plan has two parts that must be implemented sequentially. The first part of the plan is for the unfaithful spouse to completely separate from the lover and eliminate the conditions that made the affair possible. The second part is for the couple to create a romantic relationship, using my Basic Concepts as a guide.

I'll describe these two parts to you in a little more detail.

The first step, complete separation from the lover and eliminating the conditions that made the affair possible, requires a complete understanding of the affair. All information regarding the affair must be revealed to the betrayed spouse, including the name of the lover, the conditions that made the affair possible (travel, internet, etc.), the details of what took place during the affair, all correspondence, and anything else that would shed light on the tragedy.

This information is important for two reasons: (1) it creates accountability and transparency, making it essentially impossible for the unfaithful spouse to continue the affair or begin a new one unnoticed, and (2) it creates trust for the betrayed spouse, providing evidence that the affair is over and a new one is unlikely to take its place. The nightmares you experience are likely to continue until you have the facts that
will lead to your assurance that your husband can be trusted.

An analysis of the betrayed spouse's childhood or emotional state of mind in an effort to discover why he or she would have an affair is distracting and unnecessary. It takes precious time away from finding the real solutions. I know why people have affairs: We are all wired for it. Given certain conditions, we would all do it. Given other conditions, however, none of us would do it. So the goal of the first step is to discover the conditions that made the affair possible and eliminate them.

After the first step is completed, the second step is to create a romantic relationship between you and your husband using my 10 Basic Concepts http://marriagebuilders.com/ca/to.cgi?l=qa080103bc
as your guide. While your relationship may be improving, it won't lead to a romantic relationship because you are not being transparent toward each other. Unspoken issues in a marital relationship lead to a superficiality that ruins romance.

Your nightmares are only the tip of the iceberg. They are but a small reflection of the suffering you experienced when you discovered your husband's affair, and the fear you have that the suffering will be repeated. You have no assurance that the affair is over because you don't even know who the other woman is. You are being asked to trust your husband, who has already proven to be untrustworthy. For all you know, he could be working with her, or you could be going to the same church, or she could be
your neighbor. And since he won't discuss the details of how the affair took place, you have no assurance that another affair will not take its place.

Infidelity is not something that can be swept under the rug. While those who have affairs want to forget about it and move on, those who are betrayed must take very specific steps before they can fully recover. In your case, those steps have not been taken, and as a result, your fear persists. I will send you a complimentary copy of my book, "Surviving an Affair," if you send me your address. It will describe these two steps to you and provide you with a roadmap toward full recovery. But the path will require full disclosure of all details.

Best wishes,

Willard F. Harley, Jr.