I don't know that he's ever been tested for that. Would the fact that he's an "A" student, sings in the choir and acts in the theatre change your suggestion? I honestly don't know anything about autism. This IS an interesting concept. I do know that he has been evaluated countless times by professionals and no one has ever mentioned this in any of the reports.

This is thndrnltng, not Neaksis: RAD is often misdiagnosed as autism before a correct determination of the problem is made. And NO, IT DOES NOT MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE in what she should do next!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Autism, schmautism. Unless you have lived for years, as we have, with children suffering the post-traumatic stress of molestation, you cannot possibly realize how bad it is and what they suffer. PM has small children in her home. They are at risk. I don't care WHY he's doing this stuff. The protection of the little ones comes first. Everything else takes a distant 2nd place.

Princess,

"Would the fact that he's an "A" student, sings in the choir and acts in the theatre change your suggestion?"

Yes, and that he has been evaluated by countless professionals changes my suggestion too.

That one paragraph about being a-social and never too high or too low made me think of the autistic son of our friend.

kirk

Autism, schmautism.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????????????????

I agree. Putting a name on it doesn't change the fact that he is a danger. He's not coming home tonight at my request. I told his dad he needed to take care of him until we get this sorted out. I just can't deal with it right now. I'm waiting to find out from Teen Challenge if we can get him in. My husband is also going to talk to some of the ministers at our church to see if we can get a placement referral somewhere.

This is NotNeaksis again: As the biological and adoptive grandmother of 6 children who were molested (long story--read the thread), there's no question here for me. The need for a diagnosis is not actually the pressing issue here. What matters is the danger he poses to the other children in the household. Once the danger is removed, and the younger children are safe from the risk of in-home predation, the older boy can be evaluated, diagnosed, and treated as necessary. A child who is molested by an autistic is just as molested as one who is abused by someone who is not. For PM, getting a diagnosis did not need to be her first priority in dealing with this situation. I am not mocking or minimizing autism, only saying that right now the correct diagnosis was NOT the most important matter that she needed to attend to.

Very good points; I agree completely.

PM--Were you able to find placement for your nephew? Once he is safely out of the home, there is some necessary work to do with your grandchildren, which cannot really be successfully attempted while the older boy is still there. Please let us know when he is gone and if you want off-board help we will be glad to "talk" to you by email, or you can continue to discuss it here on MB in a more public format. But getting him away from the kids was only the first step, not the final one.

Let us know when/if you want more info. I wish my daughters and I didn't know the stuff we do, but we've had to learn and the pain that learning has cost this whole family compels to try and do whatever we can to spare others.

Not yet but he is staying at his dad's until my husband gets back into town. Unfortunately Teen Challenge said that they do not handle kids with those issues. So we're back to square one. My hope is that his dad's fiance will get an apartment (instead of living with his dad) and take him until his dad gets off probation in May of 2009. There would be no children in the home.

As far as the grandkids, we KNOW without a doubt that he never did anything to them (other than that one incident when he first got here) because we have NEVER given him the opportunity to be alone with them. They were not allowed to go into his room EVER and we were with them all the time because they are young and have to be watched constantly anyway.

I'm just leaving for church, so will defer this until later, and I'm going to let my daughters decide how much they want to tell. But I will say that we thought WE were watching ours--with hypervigilance, no less,too--and sexual contact was going on under our noses in spite of it.

Also, I believe you need to consider reporting this to CPS, or your state's equivalent. Moving him to his dad's fiance's house protects your own grandchildren; however, it also moves the risk to another unsuspecting neighborhood where there WILL be children. But, as I said, I'll see if the girls can't get on this afternoon and tell you a bit more.

We already reported it to CPS and they said there was nothing to do. According to them, what he did (holding my granddaughter on his lap on top of a blanket, he didn't abuse anyone.) I guess they have to wait until he commits a crime before they get involved. I'm in Texas and CPS is in hot water right now because of what they did to that polygamous sect's ranch here in Texas. I think they're a little gun shy now about acting too fast.

I'm 100% sure that nothing was done. I don't know how to make it any plainer than that. It was not possible. Not only was he never allowed to be alone with them, he was never allowed to TOUCH them in any way.

I agree, placing him with his dad doesn't protect other children. We are trying to get him some help on top of that but other than that, what else can we do? If CPS won't act, our hands are tied.

PM, I for one know you are doing the best you can and willing to do whatever you need to do for all parties involved.

It just plain sucks when we can't have it work out as we want. Your family needs to be commended and supported for all you are doing and I think you are handling it amazing.

I keep you in my prayers and ask G-d to give you open doors that maybe none of us are looking at through our sensitive eyes.

G-d will provide... I am sure of it.

I can't advise you what to do, but I can tell you what I did wrong.

My son had a good friend, a bright, handsome little boy. The friend had a very disfunctional family and he started hanging out at our home when he was 5. They were best friends until the boy turned 12.

My panties started disappearing, but I really didn't think anything about it. I thought the washer "ate" them. Then one day the friend's mom came over with a bag of panties and asked if they were mine. Turned out the 12 year old had been coming into my home when I was gone and taking my panties.

The kid was such a good kid and I didn't want him to have a record, so I didn't report it to the police. Instead my husband talked to him and told him that he wouldn't be welcome in our home. Also we talked to the mom about getting counseling.

About 2 weeks later, I came home and there was a pillow on my bed, dressed up in my panties and bra. And someone had masturbated on it. This time, I did call the police and they did a report. But the 12 year old denied it.

He never got counseling. And he still lives with his mom right down the street. I see him skulking around, and it gives me chills.

I watch too much crime TV, and since have seen many cases where rapists start by targeting victims and stealing panties.

Somewhere his sexuality has gone askew. I would talk to your county, or whoever does foster care and let them know that he needs help and can no longer be in your home. And demand that he get some treatment.

He is still young and doing well in other areas. Now is the time to get some treatment.

And by the way, our area has been plagued by a peeping Tom for years. Several neighbors have called the police, but no one has ever been apprehended.

PM, I am not criticizing you at all. None of this is instinctual for a normal adult. But I have 2 things that concern me about your 100% confidence that nothing happened: (1) In our situation, sexual fondling occurred at the dinner table while the adults and children were all seated together and behaving appropriately from the waist up. Under the tablecloth? Not so much. And we were VERY aware of the need for constant monitoring by then. We didn't think it could be happening because we were right there and WATCHING! But it did anyway. (2) How can you be sure nothing ever happened at night? Was someone always awake in the house? At one daughter's house, a little boy from the church who spent a night there occasionally would, every single time he was there, wake the girl up first for sexual activity and then move to the boy for more of the same--all during the same night and once the supervising adult was asleep. He was 8 or 9 at the time.

You don't have to justify yourself to me, by the way. I'm not the behavior police--except to my grandkids, of course. I just want you to cover all your bases and so am suggesting that you ask yourself questions that you, as a normal human being, might not think of otherwise. The ingenuity and obsessiveness of juvenile sex deviants is beyond the imagination of a "regular" grown-up. I'm 60. I've been a bedside nurse for almost 40 years, including a stint in a maximum security prison hospital. I thought I'd seen and heard it all. Turns out I hadn't.

thndrnltng,

I don't think you're criticizing me. No offense taken at all! You asked how I can be sure nothing happened at night? I know it didn't because while my daughter stays here temporarily (we only have a two bedroom apt), she sleeps on an air mattress in our bedroom with our grandson and I sleep in my bed with my granddaughter. My husband sleeps on the couch for now. So he would have had to 1) open his door, 2) open my door, 3) get past my daughter when he entered MY bedroom, and 4) then get past ME to get to my granddaughter. They were never left alone sleeping alone ANYWHERE in the apartment AT ANY TIME when he was here.

Additionally, my husband and I both are very light sleepers and the slightest noise (or baby crying! LOL) has us both up. As for meals at the dinner table, unfortunately with our lifestyle, we don't do that very often. We usually eat in shifts. My nephew is not allowed to eat anywhere except at the dining room table.

I appreciate your concern and your wisdom and I am so sorry for what happened to your family. If I have additional questions I hope I can email you privately. As it stands we are now working to resolve this issue in a way that gets him out of our home permanently and gets him in an environment where he can be monitored and get the help he needs. We know this has to be done pronto before he actually hurts someone.

I'm a lot calmer now about it all and I really appreciate my MB friends for giving me advice.

Wow, that was horrible!! I would have called the police too.

What about your marriage, PM, with your H sleeping on the couch?

Queenie, thank you so much for your prayers. Please pray that God heals this young man's broken heart and mind. I just don't see a good outcome from this, regardless of how much counseling he gets. I believe he's too far gone... but I've seen God work bigger miracles than this.