ML;

My take on this is that this was some dramatic "fight" or "break-up" but now they're "working on it" (barf...)

Affairs always have that high drama / immature nature to them.

Have you considered that your XH might not know she's cheating?

So its probably not over. Just a dramatic moment.
Until he finds out she's cheating....

I told him before he left for training that she was cheating. I had it on good authority that she was.

His parents came to town and they went and looked at houses yesterday. They are going to buy one for him.

She will probably mess with him like she did her husband. Be wishy washy and hang onto my ex and the new bf at the same time until she decides what she wants. I could care less what she does to him or what goes on between them BUT MY KIDS ARE INVOLVED AS WELL. That is what irks me.

They both make me barf!

mlhb

Mlhb,

Wow, it must be something in the air....my oldest son spoke with his father last night (my exWH)and he is returning to Oklahoma to move in with his parents. We had lived in TX previously and then the OW, who was/is married to her 5th husband, well, they moved to Ohio and last October my exWH decided to move up there as well. Since he abandoned his kids and left me in a bad situation financially, I moved to California where I had family willing to help me.

I'm not angry and bitter like I used to be, but it is a sad situation all around. In all, the affair lasted about 2 1/2 years. I wonder if he thinks it was worth it. Was she really worth all the that, the destruction of our family, the emotional upheaval and distress for our kids, his total abandonment of his parental responsibilities? He has so little to do with our kids now, barely calls them, they have to call him and are lucky if they don't get his voice mail. They will be spending a few weeks in Oklahoma over the summer, but that's only because of the grandparents, my Mom and his parents, he is not making any effort whatsoever in that area.

I can be vindictive, but this leaves me so empty. It's sad, and all for nothing!

Raquel73
Me BW 34
ExWH 34
WH moved out 02/2006
DDay 6/2006
Divorced 8/2008
Son 13
Son 10
Daughter 8

"Why Be Normal?!"

I hear ya Raquel...

mlhb

Mlhb,

I think that you just gave me an "a-ha" moment. I think that this is what has been bothering me. I finally have to admit that I don't think I can do this either. It's like they are being forced to take their second choice and suffering for it.

Not sure I have the strength to do it....

"forced to take their second choice"

yup, that is exactly how i would feel.
right, wrong, or indifferent...

mlhb

I was told by Jennifer that this is how you will feel if your BS returns, because that is the way that it will be. At first, anyway. Once they get out of withdrawal and the Fog clears, however, things can be a bit different. Or a lot different.

Chai:

It does suck! My H announced today at MC (emergency meeting) that he is obsessing on OW so much he can't deal with it. He has been gone from here for a week because I couldn't take the withdrawal either but now I guess the withdrawal wasn't even withdrawal. Just growing urges for his ho too. My M doesn't look so good now but at least H got to finally experience MY rage!
He knows that how he's treated me and our M is unacceptable but with his fog, I'm sure I didn't make an impression.....

When the WS returns, this IS what it feels like. If the WS is making reparations as they go, however, I'm sure that it becomes tolerable. The trick is to have a WS who WANTS to do the work, and isn't coming back solely because their lives are tough, and they THINK you are the answer. I can't know for sure, but I did feel like the fallback to his life being difficult. I thought that meant he hit bottom and wanted his wife back, had made a horrible mistake. It seems not.

when they are in ws mode, it's almost like "don't do me any favors" by coming home ya know?

when mine came home after our last separation he had no intention of trying. he felt entitled to treat me like sh*t and did for 3 years until i finally had enough.

i am not even sure if i was second choice. i was just the easier one. the one that made sense since it would be more financially beneficial for him to be here.

i am sure my ex now is not only feeling the "pain" (gag) of things ending with ow (if they truly are) he is also feeling the financial hit too. she paid a good portion of the bills.

mlhb

Well guys, this is why I was asking Mimi in another thread just how you know that they really want the M as their first choice.

If feeling like second choice is just the way it will be, I'm not sure that I could live with it. Duh, I guess I actually AM living with it since it was clear that he chose to go with OW.

You know what? I don't think I like being second choice. Actually I guess I'm no choice right now, which makes me chopped liver???

I'M SO SICK OF THINKING ABOUT THIS DAY AND NIGHT. IF THIS ISN'T TORTURE I DON'T KNOW WHAT IS.

I'd rather be water-boarded.

SL does it get any better when it gets to your milestone?

Chai,

That depends on what you mean by IT. The obsessive thinking on PWC has waned quite a bit. But Chai, let's remember, PWC has had mulitple stabs at this (and I mean that almost literally--it's that painful to go thru false recovery). PWC has made this choice over and over again over the last three years. Whenever it got tough, whenever the mirror began to turn toward his reflection, he cut out. HE has shown me that he doesn't have what it takes as he is. HE has taught me how to treat him.

Between you and Queenie, I hear this need to DO something. The best thing you can do, is to LET GO. I tell myself day in and day out that PWC is now simply a business partner, since we still own the house and still have to divvy everything up in divorce. He's demoted himself to that lowly position in my life. Your WH's have demoted themselves to very lowly positions, taking the respect you had with them, so treat them as such. It's tough to think of them as dead--I was never good at that--but you could start with a demotion. YOu are giving them too much brain space, that could be used for a really good crossword puzzle or fart joke.

You won't figure them out until they walk up to you and TELL YOU what's on their minds. Sure, I speculate here and there, but it doesn't change that all the questions still exist, even after I pound out nearly every reason I can think of for being such a meany.


The short answer to your question...Yup.

I guess this says that everybody is different.

This is what RECOVERY requires and if I had not done this I would not have the HAPPY MARRIAGE that I have today.

I hate to say it, but you take a risk when taking the wayward back. Yes, it's a calculated risk, especially when counselling with the Harleys, but a risk no less. You DO have to suffer thru waiting for the WS to shed their wayward skin, and that includes withdrawal. This is part of why recovery is so hard.

From stories told here, I have come to find that once most of the WSs CHOOSE to come home, and get thru withdrawal, if you follow MB closely, you will again be the number one choice. In some cases, it seems if there was a spot ABOVE number one, you would take that one, for having fought so hard for the marriage, basically saving your spouse from certain doom. You are their hero.

SL,

You are so right. This need to DO something eats me alive. Maybe its just too early in the process for me, and it just hasn't sunk in that I can't DO anything. It's just my personality - I'm a fixer. Something needs to be done, I do it.

Also, that obsessive thinking gives me a headache, and I really do want it to stop. Sometimes that's why I think getting off of the board here for a short time is really a good thing. Coming here only makes me think about it more, but coming here also eases the pain. Double edge sword I guess.

I know that you are right Mimi. Jennifer told me many times that they ALL come with baggage, so better to have the baggage of your spouse than someone else.

I don't even know why I'm worried about it anyway since I don't exactly have a recovery opportunity in my lap. Just wondering. Thinking. Oh there I go again - thinking.

SL, I know what you went through. I had a few false recoveries and my WH put no effort into it either. He didn't think you should have to "work" on M. And MB was a bunch of BS (not "betrayed spouse"). I now understand that it was WH talking. No, Cake-eater WH talking since he never stopped the A at all.

You are DS's Numero Uno which should bring light to your life.

I never knew about MB until 2 months before the divorce was final, and so recovery was never an option. But thinking about it now, I don't think I would ever been able to get past the feelings of being 2nd choice. I simply could not live with that.

At first, it was so devastating, but I now realize with the fact that my Ex is extremely passive/aggressive, he would never have done what was required for recovery anyway. He talks a lot, but there is never any actions to back it up. That goes for every aspect of his life. He would have done the bare minimum to get by. In the long run, the kids and I are better off this way!

Praying for everyone on this board!

Raquel73

I think Jennifer is way off base here. Comparing the baggage that most people bring into a relationship with the rape of your soul is just insensitive IMHO.


THIS baggage that your spouse brings involves a direct assault on you...not some stranger.

For me, no thank you...I would never choose to be someones second option. A spouse that comes home to me because they got dumped by their OP and NOT because they realized the error of their actions...well, she could come in the front door and right out the back door. I'd rather be alone that ever be someones leftover choice.

i agree 100% medc.

i think the big difference is when a ws comes home that WANTS to work on things versus one that just comes home because it is the easier choice.

the first time ex and i separated, it was due to MY utter unhappiness in the marriage. it was 5 years into marriage and the twins were 4 at the time. in those 5 years i found out that my ex truly believed it was the WOMAN'S job to rear the children and he gave me very little, if any, help with them. he would go off all of the time and do what HE wanted knowing he didn't have to worry because i would be home with the children. if I wanted to do something though, it was a huge deal because he didn't want to have to take care of the kids and be stuck home with them. then, when they were only a few months old, he decides to take a job where he would have to go downstate until he could get back up this way. this job completely changed who he was as i knew him and really hardened him. plus, left me ALONE to care for newborn twins. i had no family where we were living close by. through those 5 years i was verbally abused by him and so were my children. when i went back to work and left the kids with him he would fall asleep on the couch. i would worry the whole time if they were ok. i came home one time to find my then 3 year olds had destroyed the house, had lipstick all over the walls, and my son had a steak knife in his hands. another time he fell asleep and my son actually cut himself with a knife. that coupled with the fact we never spent any alone time together, his job, and then he joined the fire dept which kept him away as well... i had had enough.

we separated and he was devastated. he couldn't understand why. he thought nothing was wrong in the marriage! we were apart for about 3-4 months and i let him come home. he was so happy to be home BUT MADE NO ATTEMPT AT ANY CHANGES PERIOD. none. now, at this point, had we had MB, i might have had an H that would have been willing to work it. but we didn't so we floundered, nothing changed, and i grew more and more sad and depressed. we separated again and that was that. he started having affairs and living his life partying in the bars, etc. he did come home one last time because i just didn't want to throw it all away yet. i was hoping beyond hope that we could go to counseling or something and make our marriage right but it was too late. he was having too much fun. he came at the end of the summer because my company had closed and i was going to be without a job. we didn't want to lose the house so he moved back in. i worked my butt off trying to have us recover but he was only here because of finances, which he made very clear about a year in. he lived his life, had affair after affair, and moved to the couch. and that was my life for 3 years.

so, i allowed a man to come home that had no intention of working on the marriage. i would rather have lost the house, and been alone, then to have lived the life we lived the last 3 years of our marriage let alone what the kids went through.

he was very cruel and mean to me, said the most awful things, and dragged my children into his affairs.

not a pretty picture.

mlhb

I did have MB behind me this last time, and PWC AGREED with much of what he was reading, and led me to believe that we would follow this track. Other than that, his attitude was the same. He was SOOOOO happy to be home, but that didn't extend to his marriage, just the house, and the time he got to spend with his son.

Again, I believe in MB, and believed that withdrawal had to occur in order for him to truly begin the process. It never happened. This is why I STRESS that for a better chance, your WS should be repentent and ready to do the work, from the get go, otherwise, you have a higher RISK of it not working out, because it is HARD--on EVERYBODY involved, to recover a marriage.

He DID do the precautionary stuff, but just the bare minimum, an if I suggested that he change something, he always found some excuse, or did it, but VERY begrudgingly. Again, I thought it was something to do with the withdrawal, and the mindset of a wayward (the fog, if you will), and that it would take time for him to WAKE UP.

MEDC called him out early on. I was listening, but I was also going to give it all that I had. I wanted to know that there was no stone left unturned. Turns out PWC was the stone, and it's not my business to 'turn' HIM.

I am satisfied with my choices. I am not going to sit and second guess them. I did what I had to do, for myself and for my son, still do.

there are many similarities to our situations SL.

personally, i think you made the right decision for you and your son. YOU will be a success story all on your own.

Just like me

mlhb