Mr Z and I have been working with SH and it’s been helping us tremendously. I haven’t posted in a long time because I wanted to stick with one perspective. I’ve done step one, which is taking responsibility for what I’ve done, and step two, which is giving him a detailed account of the affair and it’s progression from the EA to PA, and step three, which I’m still working on, is validating his pain. I gave him the detailed timeline about 10 days ago and we agreed to stop talking about details anymore, so the angry outbursts have stopped. Now, Mr Z is so depressed and I don’t know how to help him.

His self-esteem is so low and I know I caused it. I took his spark away. How can the person (me) who wounded him like this be the one to heal him? I feel like such a failure as a person, as a wife, mother, friend, like I don’t even deserve to be married. I think of myself as such a bag of [censored] that I don’t even think I’m adequate to help him. When I reach out to hug him, or tell him I love him, or tell him I’m sorry, my words feel so weak. I’m actually depressed about the depression that I caused him. I took away his manhood, and I’m not woman enough to give it back! I’m so freakin weak it’s disgusting. I’d really appreciate any advice that you might have.

-MrsZ

Just keep loving him Mrs Z. The damage was not done overnight and it certainly will not be undone overnight.

Say

MrsZonie

You are the person to heal him. You are doing the things that need to be done. Counseling with the Harley's. Being honest answer BH's questions.

"we agreed to stop talking about details anymore, so the angry outbursts have stopped"

Angry out bursts are tuff to face. Whose ideas was it to stop talking about details? Who mentioned it first?

BH may need to go revisit this in the future. I hope you let him. Since 1981 my wife has trickled out the story. I have not even heard half the story. My pondering what happened eats at me still. I suggest that it gets done one or two weekday evenings. This way you have the weekends to reconnect.

I would suggest that what he is experiencing is not so much depression as it is deep grief. And with grief, there is really nothing to do but grieve. When Dr.H says that infidelity is as painful as losing a child, this is what he means.

He is grieving all that is lost while you both build a NEW normal.

Just keep doing what you are doing. Don't give up. Don't get impatient. And don't forget to do your OWN grieving.

Blessings,
WH2LE

If you are working to validate his pain, then you are doing fine. I imagine it must be hard to help him deal with this, one minute he probably wants you to leave him alone and the next he wants you (at least this is how it is for me....). Just keep being there. Give his his space when he needs it (but be close by in case he needs you....) and be there when he needs you. YOU CAN NEVER APOLOGIZE ENOUGH.....

and as far as YOU being depressed....watch yourself closely. Go to your DR. if needed. You will be of no help if you are not doing well yourself, which will only ended up fueling the resentment.

And do a call out in your title for Mrs. W and Lala....they are FWW who will be of good help to you ....with lots and lots of advice and encouragement.

good luck and prayers to you....

not2fun

MrsZonie

You are the person to heal him. You are doing the things that need to be done. Counseling with the Harley's. Being honest answer BH's questions.

"we agreed to stop talking about details anymore, so the angry outbursts have stopped"

Angry out bursts are tuff to face. Whose ideas was it to stop talking about details? Who mentioned it first?

BH may need to go revisit this in the future. I hope you let him. Since 1981 my wife has trickled out the story. I have not even heard half the story. My pondering what happened eats at me still. I suggest that it gets done one or two weekday evenings. This way you have the weekends to reconnect.

Last thing I have not heard people quoting time frames here. Withdrawal for WS 6 months. BS appears calm, then bam at six months anger phase. Recovery takes 2 years minimum.

I understand why you want everything to heal fast, the pain ends.
But time can not be rushed. You are making progress, it will continue.

Not2Fun,
I just changed the title, let's hope it works!

The Road,
As far as the details go, after I made this timeline/calendar of details, Mr Z added his own details of what he was doing while I was with OM. He put the pieces together and kept working on it, and we revisited it together until he felt he got the entire story. After talking to SH, he decided to shred the calendar and not talk about the details of the A anymore. It was a POJA type of thing, and I told him to shred it when he was ready. I tried not to put any pressure on him and he shredded the document when he felt it was time.

But, I think he needs to talk about it more, not so much the details, just his feelings about it. I think we need to find a way to talk about the pain of the A so that it can help him.

MrsZ.

Have you heard of 5-HTP? It is suppose to be a natural supplement to help with depression and stress. Of course, do a little research to make sure that it won't have you growing a third ear or something but about the time I registered here, starting reading the Harley books and spoke with Jennifer for the first time my husband and I started taking this. So far I haven't seen a third ear growing and we are both a bit more relaxed.

Mind you it is not a miracle pill (don't I wish) but it could be helpful. It took a couple weeks before I could see my hubbie was more relaxed and I started feeling a little more normal at that time too. I cannot attribute the changes to 5-HTP as I did a lot of things at that time.

I'm anxious to hear what LaLa or Mrs. W have to say for you. I'm struggling and hope that their words can help us both.

Jlr,
I just did some research on 5-HTP. Turns out to also be a diet aid. Do you find it helps with that too?

Yes, now I recall that it is also a diet aid. No words from me on whether or not it works with dieting. My husband and I have always remained physically active. I find that a much better natural reliever for my feelings.

Sorry I can't offer any thoughts there. St. John's Wart might be another option to help for a while.

I would pair these with some type of excercise too. It really does wonders for yourself and the outlook you have (once you get past the I feel like I'm going to die stage).

Hey Mrs. Z! I was just wondering about you guys the other day!

It's a tough road, no doubt, but it sounds like you are doing much of the required stuff to get through it...Good for you! Most importantly, are you guys spending the MINIMUM of 15 hours per week together doing FUN things? Meeting each other's needs? No relationship or affair talk? Right now it is IMPERATIVE that you be doing this...That is what it takes to create romantic love...Right now, you MUST concentrate on building up the balances in both of your lovebanks...It is CRITICAL...When you start to do that, things will begin to look up...No joke!

About this...


No you didn't...It wasn't yours to take away...He defines his own masculinity, not you...Your affair had NOTHING to do with him...It was all about YOU...You know this, right? Does he?

As for the depression, see if things start looking up when the two of you start doing things together...Could you perhaps join a gym and go work out together? Take walks at night? Exercise will definitely help and exercising together will REALLY help!

I'm glad to see you back around here...Don't be such a stranger!

Mrs. W

((((((Mrs. Zonie))))))

You have come a long way! I know just exactly how you feel...helpless, guilty...like there is a huge hole in the middle of both of you that nothing seems to fill.

We are just pulling out of that phase ourselves, so I am fresh out of the "fire" so to speak, and Want2Stay still has good and bad days. Time, hon...time and lots of patience and loving support. You just cannot tell him enough how much he means to you, how sorry you are, and how you will do whatever it takes to help him heal. You are in this together, even though it may be hard for him to see it that way in times of deep anger--which he will still have for a long time.

He is mourning the "loss of innocence" in your marraige. He is angry that HE will no longer be the last person with whom you are intimate. He is devastated that no matter how many details you give him, or how much of the puzzle he now has, he will never know ALL of the things you shared with the OM...things only HE should know. Not because you are KEEPING anything from him, just that you cannot recount every second of every moment of those dark days.

I am not telling you this to make you feel worse, just trying to help you understand some of the things he may or may not be able to express to you yet. Hopefully it will help you understand what he is dealing with on a deeper level.

I remember a time just a couple of months ago when I was tiring of the pain and depression. I had been here and giving it my all for about 4 months solid and it felt like nothing I did would ever ease my H's pain. I was weary...I was losing hope. I was actually starting to become impatient with the whole process. Not to the point where I would ever give up, mind you, but just IMPATIENT (I am THE MOST impatient person I know...lol). There was distance growing between W2S and I and I was desperate to reconnect with him. So, I prayed...HARD! And I asked for that humble, loving, understanding heart to come back to me. I wanted it back to replace the growing anxiety I had with my H (will he ever be able to overcome this??).

The next day I had a dream. I had gotten up in the morning and then laid back down. If you are anything like me- that is the time when my dreams are the MOST vivid. I remember it like it actually happened...even now. In my dream, my DH cheated on me. I confronted him and he just laughed in my face. As I tried to win him back, he just insulted me and tore me down. And he had this sarcastic, smug smile on his face the whole time. I starting hitting him and couldn't stop... I was just wailing on him and sobbing and he just laughed and laughed...

I woke up sobbing. I was shaken to the core. I know it was "just a dream" but I cannot describe to you how REAL it was. The FEELINGS were so REAL!! And as I sat up in bed the first thought that came into my head (in that still, small voice) was "this is how your husband has felt for the last year and a half." I remembered him saying that one of the hardest parts was looking at me wearing that stupid, sarcastic smile during my foggy days.

From that day forward, I have been back to the person I became the night I came here...broken, humble, and desperate to hold onto my marriage and my family. Actually, I no longer feel "broken." I feel like half of one of the greatest love stories of all time. I will pray for both you that you will overcome this depression soon!

Once again...TIME. Try to be patient-give him what he needs, as I know you are. You will survive this. You need to be there for EACH OTHER. You must forgive yourself, even as he tries to forgive you.

I hope this helps!

Mrs Z,

You have been give great advice. May I offer one more for you to consider. Most of the time let him set the pace on recovery talks, but as you see things have the "Ah Ha" moments, bring up the affair and talk about what you have learned/realized/felt. Don't forget to ask him for help as well.

I know this sounds odd, but as your marriage recovers you both will need to take an active role in it.

Finally, I do think "grieving" is a better word than depressed. He lost 2.5 years of his life, if I remember the length of your affair. 2.5 years of his life was a lie and all of the good time associated with those years are now blemished.

I am not trying to lay guilt on you, but realize he lost several things: 2.5 years of memories, the innocence of his marriage, his absolute trust in you, and perhaps most damaging his trust in himself. It takes time to face and deal with all of that.

Hang in there time and patience will be on your side. Oh! and do go out and try to make a few NEW memories OK?

God Bless,

JL

looks like it did.....heed their words, it is very good for you.....they've been where you are and are shining examples of what we all hope our WS will turn out to be.....

n2f

Thank you so much for saying that Not2! Much appreciated!

Mrs. W

DITTO, Not2!! Love ya, girl!!

Mrs. W,
We're still here! I've been a bit of a lurker lately, I learn a lot just by reading your replies to other people.

So, we've been spending the 15hrs a week, but this past weekend was just really serious and somber for us. Memorial Day is hard on Mr Z, he's a combat vet and he takes this day very seriously. This weekend we will be going to a Kenny Chesney, Keith Urban, LeeAnn Rymes concert and our DD will be spending the day at my mom's. It'll be a good time. It's been so serious around our house lately that we just need to allow ourselves to have fun. We need to laugh again!!

I understand what you're saying about not taking away his manhood, but it's hard for him not to internalize my actions. He wonders why I chose the OM over him. The thing is, I was a total cake eater. I wanted the marriage and the OM, I was selfish to an extreme and wasn't willing to look at the consequences. But, that hurts him too. No matter how you look at a pile of [censored], it's still a pile of [censored].

I suppose it'll take awhile for the lovebanks to fill even halfway. But I'll keep trying!

Thanks for your reply Mrs W!

-Mrs Z

Resonance,
It's a relief to know that you're pulling out of that phase. You've been working so hard at this for a long time.

What you're telling me helps a lot. I'm really trying to understand as best I can. I do feel I have more strength to deal with his pain now, I didn't have that before.

So, I'm going to get back to my hubbie now and maybe play a game or two of backgammon. He always kicks my a$$, but that's gotta be worth a few Love units

-Mrs Z

JL,
I know you're not trying to lay guilt, just more understanding. And he does feel that our last 2.5 years are blemished. He can't look at photos of our vacations, holidays, good times from that time period without pain. Even photos of our cute daughter in a Halloween costume is bothersome because the PA started over Halloween in 2006.

I think I'm starting to get it. SH said that I'm the physician, and Mr Z is the patient. The only problem with that is I was the perpetrator who stabbed him and landed him in the hospital!

We'll get there. Thanks for supporting us through this.

-Mrs Z.