I am so confused and need advice. These boards have been very useful.
Husband and I have always had difficulties with his independent behavior. Married 4 years. I am always seeking more attention from him, but he is more interested in hanging with friends, golfing, sports, etc. Things were better for a while and we decided to have a baby and I became pregnant within a few months. Soon after his drinking became more and more of an issue. He started to become verbally abusive and emotionally unavailable. He would be out with friends and golfing 5-7 days a week and come home 3 hours late on a regular basis. I thought that starting a family would be a happy and exciting time, but instead it was a very frightening, lonely experience as I watched my husband and I spiral out of control. I always felt like there was nothing I was doing to cause our fighting, but would try to change and consider my role in the chaos. We started couseling and things were a bit better, but still terrible. I moved out of our bedroom due to the stress and fighting. My husband was diagnosed with depression and started taking meds the day our son was born. It was a very difficult time adjusting to being a new mom without having any emotional support.
About 2 months ago when our son was about one month old my husband sat me down and told me that he had some things to tell me: he has lied about how many sexual partners he had before marriage (he said 7, but it is over 20?), he has a problem with porn (he is also not interested in sex with me at all), he cheated on me once before we were married and had sex with a woman 3 years ago while on a business trip, has hid chewing tabacco daily, gambled over 25K away and that we have 100K more credit card debt than I thought we had.
We have been in couseling for 6 months and he has been making me the bad guy the whole time. Deflecting his guilt and making me the focus of our therapy sessions (if I was not as messy he would be more intimate with me). He has said sorry, but does not seem to have empathy for me and my feelings. I want to make things work, but he cannot keep his word. He has told me several times he will not drink or only have 2 drinks, but does not stick to it. He does things I ask him not to and continues to golf even though we cannot afford it. The credit card bills are climbing.
He says that a relationship is 50/50 and we are both at fault and that it feels like I am just focusing on his problems. He is not willing to be "controlled" and do the work it takes to rebuild our trust. We are still living in separate rooms and do not talk except for bickering. I told him that I need him to be honest and confront his addiction with alcohol. He said that he isn't willing to live like this if he is the bad guy and wants a divorce if this is how it is going to be.
I do love him and know this isn't who he is. I think that he is an addict and/or bipolar. I want things to work out so badly, but see that I can't do it myself and we can't have a logical conversation.
I just want to run away from him and get away from the madness, but now have no money and have a baby. He will flip out if I were to move out with the baby. He refuses to move to his parents house. I just never thought my life would be like this and am so sad for our son. I never wanted him to go through this.
Any advice? Thanks for any help.

The first thing you can do is address what you CAN control - yourself. There are a lot of good things you can do in this respect via MB - such as stop all Love Busting and start meeting Emotional Needs. That sounds crazy, to be doing nice stuff for your husband, but you need to start there so that you know you are NOT responsible for any of his issues. I can tell you from experience that he holds resentment just like you do, and if you remove his reasons for resenting you, you can move forward with a clear conscience.

Since he's talking relationship, print out the Love Buster questionnaire for each of you, and ask him to fill it out so you'll know exactly what he doesn't like about you. That's a good sign and will give you love deposits.

Fill yours out too, and exchange them. Then discuss without pride or arguing. Let us know how that goes.

Loving Solutions. To stop more damage and start repair and healing it takes loving solutions.

EEKS. Have you told the therapist about this behavior? If not, tell him right away. Make a phone call. Talk to his prescribing physician. Your husband needs to be in ongoing therapy once a week to treat his depression, and it’d be best if it were with the prescribing psychiatrist since bipolar is often misdiagnosed as depression. Some anti-depressants can aggravate manic behavior which could lead to more spending. If he’s not bipolar, the depression could be a symptom of another underlying problem, like OCD.

I’d be very cautious about taking more responsibility for the problems in your relationship than you really merit. Problems in marriage are not always 50/50. When someone misbehaves, repeatedly, that’s not 50/50. He has been verbally abusive and frightening you, he’s abused alcohol, he’s committed financial infidelity and sexual infidelity. Yet, he doesn’t want to be the “bad guy” and he doesn’t want to be controlled. It sounds to me that he doesn’t want to control himself!

You say you know this isn’t who he is, but to me, it sounds like it is who he is. It took a lot of courage for him to come clean about all the misbehaving he’s done. The only way he was able to do that is because it became too difficult to keep up a persona. Obviously, he’s more than just the man who misbehaves terribly, but that’s part of him.

Do you have family near by who can help you through this?

THANK YOU for responding and the advice. I really appreciate it!

I have made big steps in stopping displaying anger. I learned to mirror what was happening to me at home and tended to become mad and yell back at him. I finally caught on (only after a million times)that this behavior really isn't about me. I did not cause him to yell, smash things, cheat, lie, steal, drink, turn to porn, etc. I stumbled upon this site almost a year ago and did print off the articles for him to read, but he wasn't interested. Same with all the other books I've tried to turn him to. I have followed all suggestions of our counselor including undergoing testing to determine if I have a learning disability, low IQ or ADD since we have different ideas of organization. This issue has created huge issues for him and he would verbally attack me on a daily basis about where I put the milk in the fridge, my clothes on my closet floor (we have separate closets so I don't know why he cares). He was willing to end our marriage over this and this topic occupied the majority of our counseling time. Interestingly, these issues evaporated once I went through the testing and the ball was then in his court. He has admitted that he has used this issue and others as a way of deflecting the issues away from him. I think he does resent me, but I do not think that I deserve that. I have been a loyal, fun, cute, educated, loving and positive wife, willing to work through the problems that he created. He has to meet me half way here doesn't he?
I will consider prining out the questionnaire again and giving it a shot. I know that he is not interested in the joint agreement policy.

EZB- what Loving Solutions do you recommend?

Our psychologist knows about these issues and believes that he is deflecting to take the focus away from himself. He has not shared any of this with his psychiatrist since he doesn't like him (the doctor told him to stop drinking because it was causing problems in his life-not what he wanted to hear). He does have a family history of mental illness (OCD and his grandmother commited suicide, but family won't give him the details).

I am worried that focusing more on my responsibilites feeds into his addictions and takes away from changes he needs to make in order to have a functional relationship with me and his son.
We have sat down together and made a plan we both agreed to, but one or two days later he disregards the agreements, then becomes angry at me for telling him what to do, or some other thing he makes up. Historically, we get along when he decides to act normal and is engaged in our relationship, but this rarely happens. I feel like an enabler.
I do have family in the area that are supportive. I am thinking that I need to move out to get his attention and get away from this rollercoaster ride. I do have to allow him access to our son though which makes things more comlicated. I am becoming depressed by staying in a hostile and insane situation with zero integrity or respect. It feels crazy. He continues to spend more many than we have and the bills are piling up.

THANK you again for suggestions. This site has been very helpful.

NewMama, your husband's behavior is extreme, it's not within the normal spectrum. I'm not sure if you'll ever be able to get him to address his issues, and I think you need to be prepared for that. And honestly, when you have to have an IQ test to prove to your spouse you're not mentally retarded, I think that rises to the level of abuse. The complaints about where you're putting milk reminds me of the movie Sleeping with the Enemy.

Also, keep in mind, MB techniques like Plan A aren't affective when there is addiction or mental illness. In those cases, MB techniques only wear you out without impacting the marital relationship.

There's a book I found helpful. Emotional Unavailibility by Dr. Bryn Collins. It's written for the layperson, but it's very detailed and extensive. It's also written in a more academic style than "self-help" books. I think it may help you as you go through the big decisions you seem to be facing.

PS: It also sounds like you are frightened of your husband. You should contact some battered spouse resources in your area. They have ideas on how you and the baby can remain safe.

Thanks Greengables,
I am afraid you are right, but am hoping for a turn around. He is going to AA this week. I hope he actually goes and that it is a positive experience.
The IQ testing was actually the therapist's idea as she wanted to rule out a learning issue that could explain why I am more unorganized that he would prefer. I actually have a doctorate degree and have my own business with 7 employees. I'm not perfect, but I am not the irresponsible out of control person he has made me out to be. After he confessed she dumped the ADD theory for a while.
I think I need help explaining/finding the words to tell him that I cannot tolerate this behavior. I love him and want to work it out, but without honesty, acknowledging that he has caused damage and agreeing to stop hurting me this can't happen.

Thank you so much for everyone's help.

So for a while, your H had the therapist snowed, thinking that there was something going on with you. UGH. I'm dyslexic myself, but something about that rubs me the wrong way. Plus, where you put the milk doesn't really count. My ex filled the entire basement, top to floor, with his inventory of old books. He also filled 2 sheds and a subaru and was working on the dining room when I moved out. LOL. That was a problem. However, I never questioned his IQ or if there was a condition to explain it away.

Have you read Patricia Evans' book Verbal Abuse? I don't like to use the word abuse much because I think it gets diluted and then when someone is being beaten, we start to equate it with being called a name or given the silent treatment for a day. But, even if I don't think everything she writes about deserves the word "abuse," I really like her point that abusers in general make their victims question their own sanity and reality. That is not a good place to be.

My ex has some issues. He's also a bully and he mistreated me, although I wouldn't call it abuse. After three years of tryign MB principles with no luck at all, I knew that if I stayed married to him, I would end up dead, incarcerated or insane. Some people think I'm exaggerating. I'm not. Even after I realized this, I didn't leave until I had the sudden urge to bash his head in with the frying pan I was unloading from the dishwasher. Truly, I had a fleeting thought "I could bash his head in with this." Gruesome. I didn't, but I knew it was time to go.

I hope this works out for you. You may want to have a deadline, and you may want to have an emergency kit stashed at your parents or somewhere. You know, a couple changes of clothing, medication and cash for you and your son.

Thank you for your response.
Last night he again told me that he wasn't willing to work on our relationship by keeping his word and sticking to our agreement of staying on budget, no lying, extreme independent behavior, etc.

I should check out the book. Questioning my sanity has happened on a daily basis. For example: him coming home drunk-2 hours late, slurring and mean, but claiming he only had 2 beers. I know a drunk person when I see one( he later confessed to drinking much more and drove home). I lost my cool and smashed a ceramic box on the floor. Woops. This gave him a lot of ammo to use against me. He called his parents and told them I was nuts and likely to be violent with our unborn child. He then yelled at me for over an hour in front of his parents. Anyways, I have many stories, which makes me think what the hell am I doing?! It is maddening to know someone is lying to your face, but there is no true way to prove it, especially to others (therapists, family members, etc.) Being nice and meeting his needs has never worked and is exhausting. He is uninterested unless there is something in it for him like having me attend a work function so it appears we have a cute little perfect family. (puke)

I am planning to spend more time at my parent's house when he has the baby. It will be interesting to see how AA goes for him tomorrow.

Thanks everyone for caring enough to reply.

If he's unwilling to honor his word, being honest, sticking to an agreement he made, how can you have a relationship?

Another book you may want to check out is Boundaries. It's biblically based and the authors reference each point to scripture which I found very distracting. However, the information and concepts are universal.

Your husband is glorying in running rough-shod over your boundaries. What to do with a person who flat out tells you he won't be honest? He won't honor his word?

You know, I'm not sure depression is the best diagnosis. Personally, since the advent of effective ADs, I think depression has become over-diagnosed. (I've suffered depression off and on since I was about 9).

Anyway, your husband may have some elements of depression, but I doubt that's really the issue. It's really hard to see what's alcohol induced and what's may be organic. Alcohol definitely ups the depression.

It may be a good idea for you to very quietly go seek some legal advice. Find out your options. I know that in my state once you file for divorce, any debts incurred are yours alone. In other words, your husband's debts wouldn't follow.

All that said, I'd still get in touch with a women's shelter.

I'll repeat that you need to work on only what you can control - you. You keep talking about what you would like HIM to do, but that is pointless, I'm sure you know that. Basically, you're wishing for a marriage you don't have, and trying to figure out how to get that marriage.

You need to accept that you won't, and move on to what you CAN have - an independent relationship with him, or the possibility of a better relationship with someone else.

It's always possible that when you start changing yourself, setting boundaries, living your life like you want without paying attention to his complaints about how you place your milk, that he will adapt to the 'new' you. But nothing will happen until you start making those healthy boundaries. Every time he makes one of his absurd comments or demands, just smile at him and say 'honey, you know that's not realistic' and walk away.

Cat, that's good advice about enforcing boundaries, provided she's not afraid he'll become physically abusive.

If there's a well-founded fear he'd become physicially abusive, enforcing boundaries in his presence may not be a good idea. I don't know.

I guess my hair stands up when I hear that a woman has to move into another bedroom because she's afraid. I also worry when a man has told a woman or led her to believe he won't let her leave him.

NewMama...

I have read your post and some of the replies. I honestly couldn't think of the words to say to you, but I will start by saying that your husband's behavior is sickening. I too am married to a liar. My husband lies all of the time; and when he gets busted, it is either one of two excuses: he didn't tell me the truth because I would misconstrue the facts, or he didn't tell me the truth because I would blow it out of proportion. He can't see that the problem might just be that HE is a liar and HE is trying to hide the truth.

Every argument we have is because I won't let him say what he has to say, and he doesn't communicate his feelings because I don't let him process things the way he needs to. So basically, in his opinion, I am the problem, and he is not. That might be possible if we had new arguments, but we always end up arguing about the same old things because nothing ever gets resolved...it is a vicious cycle that I am sick of. Anytime I try to come to him with my feelings about something he has done, whether I am nice or mean with my approach, he starts yelling and screaming and using foul language and it is downhill from there. The bad part about it is that the only problems we have in our relationship are a result of all the lies he has told. His behavior has helped to foster an environment where there is no trust at all...no trust for me that is.

I know you are miserable; I am too. It has gotten to the point where I can hardly look at him, kiss him, or even touch him. After a few drinks, it gets easier, but when that is over, it goes back to the same thing...even worse. At this point, there is really nothing he can do that DOESN'T get on my nerves, but I still love him. However, I have learned that maybe I can love him and not be his wife. I love him...as a person, he is really cool. It would be nice if we could be friends. I honestly feel that as a husband, a man should have higher standards and respect for the sanctity of marriage. He is not doing this, and this is not how I want to live. I am making a choice and I think that choice is to leave. While my situation is different than yours, you might want to consider that. My big thing is that I want to honor my vows, but I am miserable, unhappy, and being with someone I don't trust is like a sentence of life in prison without parole. I feel your pain and I am sorry you are going through this. I pray that you come out of this situation stronger than you went in.

GG, I think she said she moved to the other room to get away from the stress, not because she was afraid. If anything, she is the one throwing things. It sounds like he is verbally abusive, but not physically. Do I have that right?

I don't see where he's done anything physical. But you're right, if he does, or will, I would just leave, debt or not. Honestly, I don't see him getting any better.

Loving Solutions is a book by Gary Chapman I'm currently reading. It talks about over coming barriers in your marriage and dealing with realities. It might not be the best book for you to read at the moment or it might be I'm really not in any position to give advice but it is helping me and I firmly believe the only way marriages can be saved or rebuilt is by loving solutions (meaning actions) coming from both parties. Keep in mind coming from both parties isn't always possible at any given stage which would mean other things need to be worked on before that stage can happen.

Yes, I really moved out the our bedroom due to the stress. I am really not afraid of him physically hurting me. He has cracked a few doors, dented some walls, pushed me down a few times and dragged me by the wrists into another room, restrained me so I can't get away from him, but has never "hit" me. I guess this is how it starts, but I am honestly not afraid of him in that way. We have not had one of those episodes since I was pregnant.
It is the emotional piece that is so disturbing. I can now see that my anger in response to the lying and related blaming me game allowed things to escalate. Now I just say "I'm sorry you feel that way" or I leave.

You are right, I am trying to create a relationship totally different from what we have. I cannot control someone into wanting what I want. Still trying to be okay with that and being strong. I sent him a plan B type letter distancing myself from him and will probably stay at my parents house on days he has the baby. Sadly, he wants the baby 50-50, but has asked me to watch him twice this week so he can go golfing. Clearly his priorities are not on par with mine, since golfing 4 times this week is critical to his survival (pardon the golf fun-I couldn't resist). He asked me to hang out with him on Sat on a double date with his friend. I declined since he doesn't want to commit to our previous boundaries and I am not willing to sacrifice my self respect so he can fill this need of his and pretend we are okay. I hope this isn't too stuborn. I would like to spend time with him, but am sick of being burned and depleted.

Thanks for the advice and listening to my venting.

Yes, it is amazing that the topic of how he cheated or lied turns into "when are we going to address your issues" and my imperfections like how I stack mail improperly within 5 seconds. It makes a person nuts! Talking in cirlces.
Now I am the bad guy since I am not tolerating bad behavior anymore. I married an adult man, not a child or a retarded person that shouldn't be held to the same standard as everyone else. His parents think we should just get along and that both of us need to make changes. Hopefully by giving him the freedom to mess up his life it will become apparent that he has some issues.

" Yes, I really moved out the our bedroom due to the stress. I am really not afraid of him physically hurting me. He has cracked a few doors, dented some walls, pushed me down a few times and dragged me by the wrists into another room, restrained me so I can't get away from him, but has never "hit" me. "

NewMama, with all due respect, you really should be afraid. This is physical abuse. He's just brainwashed you into believing it's not so bad. Pregnancy is one of the times when abuse can errupt or get much worse. You know the other time? When the abuser senses or suspects his/her victim is about to leave.

Constant, underlying anxiety will cause stress. Stress is a way of getting you to change your situation. You've been trying MB methods to change your husband's heart, and he, so far, hasn't changed.

How confident are you in the MC? Have you shared that your husband has dragged you by the writsts, restrained you so you couldn't leave, smashed walls, etc? What does the counselor say about that? Does your husband have any clue at all how totally unacceptable that behavior is? Does your family know your husband has been acting this way?

Finally, think on this: How do you want your son to treat his wife, and how will he learn that way of behaving?

Good lord, newmama! Yes, that IS physical abuse! Very bad physical abuse! That is him determining that he has the right to treat you like an object, not a human being. Please call United Way (www.unitedway.org) and ask them to help you start a new life. Please!