Yes, she is responsible. But she is not the issue here. Don't waste your time assigning blame to her. You asked for the experiences of someone who has dealt with multiple sexual partners with the WS. I offer my experience. What is it you are seeking?

I disagree completely, Jerry. Many women were sexually abused and they are not mental cripples. Sometimes counseling actually makes the problem WORSE by bringing up bad memories. Counseling is not a requirement for recovery.

In childhood matters, I defer to the good Dr Harley, a clinical psychologist:

Again you judge every survivor by your experience. What gives you the right?

Maybe your abuse was exactly the same as everyone elses?

Did your daddy 'sell' you to his drunk friends?

Maybe your father gutted your kitty over your nude body before he had sex with you?

This is my last post. I can't deal with this.

If the 'past is the past' just get over the adultery.

The sword cuts both ways.

And by the same token, what gives you the right to judge everyone by your wifes experience? Like you are doing with the woman in this situation?

You know, iam, women, even abused ones are not retarded. They are fully capable of growing up and being accountable for their actions just like everyone else. Really.

I've judged no one. I've only offered my experiences. You are the one who discounted my/our experiences.

I've only offered her my experience with caveats that they are MY experiences!

You have tried and judged EVERY SINGLE incest victim, not me!

Dr. Harley never advocates wallering in affair trauma for years on end, iam, in fact it is the opposite. He does give a specific plan to GET OVER IT. He never advocates using one's pain as an excuse for bad behavior or suggests that betrayed spouses are objects to be pitied for the remainder of their lives.

That was an uncalled for post on my part. Being a BS I know that. I apologize for the comment. Please forgive me.

It's all good, iam.

Amen and amen. You are singing my song!

I am going to jump in here. And I don't know where I'm going with this, so please bear with me.

I think my WS has had multiple sex partners. I don't have proof. Just an inkling. So, I came to this thread looking for insight into something that's not quite clear to me in the first place.

But what ended up getting my attention was the latter parts of this conversation. I am a sexual abuse survivor. I have been fortunate in that I've gotten several sources of support - God, therapy, friends - to help me recover. And WS before he became WS was one of those key supports.

Ironically, before reading this thread, I was driving home yesterday and thinking about all the questionable 'friendships' that WS has had with other women over time. I thought, "I wonder why WS always picks women who have been sexually abused? Why is he always trying to 'save' us? To go out of his way to be the one man in a woman's life who can understand her like no one else?"

In the beginning of our relationship, he was a listening ear who made me feel as though I wasn't the damaged goods I thought I was. We didn't lose our virginity to each other until after three years of dating, which is highly unusual, but along the way there was heavy petting weirdness that bordered on the coercive on his part at times. It took not being in a marital relationship anymore for me to explore all that. There were times I said I didn't feel like being physical, and he manipulated and pushed and made me feel guilty until I acquiesced. Not good.

But after I was married/conquered, sex became perfunctory, beginning on our honeymoon. There was a lack of interest. By then I had learned not to bother saying no, to avoid the hassle. My compliance was followed by his string of friendships with sexually abused female co-workers. There was one promiscuous, imbalanced young woman for whom he bought a matching briefcase. Another young woman was being abused by her boyfriend, and WS was a listening ear, helping her through her pregnancy, etc. Another co-worker was raped by her stepdad as a child, and she had tried to kill him. She and WS were close buddies, ambiguously, and she would complain about her husband's shortcomings to WS. I never understood what qualified him to be a therapist for these women. When I would tell him I felt uncomfortable with these friendships, he blew me off as jealous.

He has been doing this sort of thing since he was 19, at least. He was an exchange student, staying with a host family overseas. I found a letter the wife had written him after he'd returned home, telling him she missed the times they had cried together, how alone her husband made her feel, how she hoped WS would return.

I just don't get it. What is it about this guy?

Current OW was violently and repeatedly raped by her half brother, and she trusts WS implicitly to heal her pain. She told OWH that WS makes her feel "comfortable." Sometimes I wonder if that's because forbidden sex is what she knows, and affair sex makes her feel comfortable in a sick way. OWH says she became uninterested in sex after they got married. I know that drill.

Anyways, from what I have seen in her emails, she uses her pain to manipulate WS's feelings, and as an excuse to do whatever in the he!! she wants to my family. She has never shown any respect for me or my marriage, and has flaunted their friendship in my face, knowing that WS wouldn't end it no matter what I said. Yes, WS is responsible for his part in my pain, but she feels entitled to destroy my life, because she deserves 'happiness' after all she's been through.

Well, I don't understand it, and it's not fair. I didn't abuse her, and I don't deserve her pain heaped on me. I don't deserve to bear the consequences.

Before we split up, I saw an email where he told her that she was not 'damaged goods.' I wonder if he remembered using those exact same words with me. At any rate, it made me feel like damaged goods all over again, because in the act of showering 'love' and affection on her, he was throwing me away.

But I can't imagine letting my damaged-ness trash someone else's marriage. Because while WS' rejection made me feel like damaged goods initially, to seek to destroy another woman would confirm that I actually am. And I'm not. OW is. She really is. And not because of what happened to her in the past, but because of what she's done as a result of it.

** "You" does not refer to a specific person **


Sexual abuse is awful. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. Besides OM, that is.

Sorry you were molested/raped/pimped out as a child. That must have been a nightmare. Truly awful. The perpetrators deserve the death penalty in my opinion. I'm sure you are scarred for life.

WITH THAT SAID, your childhood trauma is NO EXCUSE, nor ANY REASON, for infidelity. You can dress yourself in the morning, drive yourself to your job, hold that job reasonably well...well enough to get by, at least. You were able to have a relationship normal enough for it to result in marriage. You pay your bills and your taxes. You might even have kids of your own.

You were also able to meet your OP, decide in advance how you could have sex with them without your spouse finding out, then you carried out that plan as best you could, right down to washing your crotch before and after.

So, you can stop the "damaged child" routine. You have shown enough callousness and enough of the ability to calculate your deceitful actions, that I know better. You were never out of control. You knew exactly what you were doing before you did it.

Whether you are consciously using your abuse as an excuse, or simply fabricating the stories of abuse in an attempt to save face, shame on you for belittling the plight of those who were molested, yet manage to refrain from destroying other people because of it.

Why would you believe him?

I certainly wouldn't put it past many an OW to lie about being abused. "Poor little them".

I've heard and read it often enough that it's starting to sound like the "my wife won't put out" story told by many an OM.

HopefulCNY ,

You need to determine for yourself whether or not the number of partners involved in the betrayal will be a dealbreaker or not. I agree with the idea that pain is pain....numbers and magnitude are subjective and a personal decision.

What may be key is your ability to determine whether or not your H is expressing and feeling true remorse and do you feel he's willing and capable of doing his own healing work...and then marital recovery work? If yes, then further asking yourself 'Is this truly what I want and am I willing to do what it takes?', and do some deep reflection on those questions & answers.

I must say, I find the need to demonize human beings for poor judgement decisions, (regardless of the underlying reasons, be it childhood sexual abuse, alcohol, drug, sex addiction, etc)....incredibly sad. So unnecessary...

I'm actually the BS so, if you were responding to me, much of it is pointless. NOTHING excuses adultery. There are no free passes either.

If anyone is interested in clinical studies on Childhood Sexual Abuse I've linked a couple. I personally belive clinical research trumps opinion. But hey, that's just me. Good luck to you all.

http://www.fairview.org/healthlibrary/content/bha_sexabuse_bha.htm

http://www.futureofchildren.org/usr_doc/vol4no2ART3.pdf

http://www.lbc.edu/public/Academics.03/Library.07/pdf/adult_males_of_childhood_sexual_abuse.pdf

http://chfs.ky.gov/NR/rdonlyres/0D6...0/ChildSexualAbuseAMentalHealthIssue.htm

Prunella:

Please, let us know why you keep changing your name....

Imagination's post had alot of good info in it.

The main point being that abusers can "sense" those that were abused and use that to thier advantage to abuse these individuals again. This does not mean that "abused" do not have a choice NOW.

Prunella, IF your husband is like this, and an abuser who "senses" those with issues that he then exploits, then you are well advised to run away. Because that type of pathological behavior is difficult to change. And you can't change him, HE needs to change.

Your WH is "hinting" at returning. You can choose to accept him back. But you need to KNOW what terms you require to accept him back under, and what terms, (or boundaries) you have to allow him to stay with you. And then you advise him of those boundaries. And if he breaks them, than you are "done" and gone. It's as simple as that. (well, if ONLY it was that simple...)

This is "Marriage Builders". I would like to help you recover your M. You are setting yourself up for ALOT of future pain, even IF your Husband accepts and lives by all of your boundaries. If he doesn't then there is still pain, but you have tried everything that you could do to recover this marriage. False recovery is awful. But if you have doubts that "I haven't done enough" they are also harmful. Harmful in different ways, but harmful none the less.

So, Prunella, you can ask if others would choose to recover thier marriage under the circumstances that you described. You can ONLY ask yourself that. Ask us for assistance in determining WHAT some of your boundaries should be. We CAN help with that.

LG

Like the first line of my reply says...it wasn't directed at anyone in particular. I assumed it was obvious that it was personal opinion and not fact. If not, I apologize.

It's interesting that so many abuse victims are able to be productive members of society. They just can't stay faithful to their spouse.

Too much planning and calculation goes into affairs for them to be solely attributable to childhood abuse. Whatever lasting effects abuse may have, I do not beleive they are UNABLE to choose to stay faithful.

It reminds me of a member of a minority going to the "racism card" to explain all of their shortcomings.

I just read the thread about posts being used maliciously, so I changed from my initials - didn't realize it would be retroactive...... sorry for the split personality!

As to taking him back... The sign I posted on my refrigerator: "I never got a chance to find out what was wrong in my marriage & now my marriage is over" says where I stand today.

We didn't have visible problems, he didn't express unhappiness/discontent. Whatever was the underlying problem has never been aired.

I find it hard just to divorce him without trying to see if we can recover - that's why I'm here. If we can't, then I know I have done all that is possible & the only option is divorce

He is not an abuser who "senses" those with issues than he then exploits them, he is very insecure and depressed. I've watched him go from someone who knows what he wants from our life and future to a "worm" as he describes himself. The relationship with her is very destructive and she is very selfish. He has not literally been out of her sight since 7/07. She is sucking the life out of him.

He has expressed the need to talk with a counselor himself, then if I agree, a marriage counselor for us. I am in plan B & do not initiate contact with him. He will text me or stop by for belongings, but I do not engage conversation or talk about us. It's not a classic plan B, but he's not getting emotional support from me.

I asked the question about multiples because I was struggling with the one or many idea & the pain I feel is all the same. I was trying to get a benchmark if the MB process works with odd situations like this.

So, what are good boundaries to protect myself IF I decide to recover & if he goes to counseling? I've printed the emotional needs questionnaires. Anything else pertinent at this time?

Thanks!

No contact with OW for the rest of his life (no contact letter) Changing cell numbers, changing email addresses, and making all of the above accessible to you. for starters.