I've found myself in a very complicated situation and I would appreciate your feedback/advice. I've explored this website and read a book about recovering from infidelity from front to back twice and I still feel as if we're not making much progress.

On 03/20/08, I found a letter my husband wrote to my former friend/co-worker about their 9 month EA/PA. They work for the same company. He manages a team and she is on a different team on the same floor. She ended the A because he wouldn't leave me. Phone records confirm that the last time he talked to her on his cell phone was 03/18/08. After I confronted him, he emailed her to simply let her know that I found out about the A.

Now for my error in judgement and a little background. Four years ago, he wanted a divorce. I moved into another bedroom in our home. We started going to individual/marital counseling. MC told me to start thinking of myself as a single person and that my marriage was over. I had a one night stand. A month later my husband cancels his moving out plans at the last second and we decided to stay together. I didn't tell him about the one night stand until I found out about his affair. And there is more, this one night stand's BF starting dating my BF. They planned a 30th bday celebration in Vegas a month after we decided to stay married. I agreed to share a hotel room with this guy and didn't tell my husband. Nothing happened physically aside from the one night and there was never an emotional connection. But I was dishonest to my husband.

During the time of his A, we had grown even more distant. In February, I told him I wanted a divorce and moved into my own bedroom. I began an EA primarily online and ended it on 04/10/08.

Now there are no secrets AND unfortunately, no trust between us. My husband told me about another married woman he was pursuing during our separation four years ago too.

My troubles:

I've asked him to look for another job or find a way to get the AP out of there. There are no opportunities to transfer her or reasons to dismiss her. He says he has updated his resume and looked a few times for a new position online. I would like to see more effort from him and have communicated this to him. I dread every weekday because I know he is going to be in close proximity to her.

My husband will not make any future plans with me. He won't plan a dinner date with me, let alone a vacation. This bothers me because he had to go to great lengths to plan liasons with the AP behind my back.

While we've talked about the book and website and have performed some of the EN exercises. He won't take the initiative to learn on his own. I believe I am working harder than he is on our recovery.

He is still very angry about my lies and doesn't believe I've been completely honest with him. I have. It's rare to discuss his A without him attacking me. In comparison, I feel like his A is much worse than what I have done.

While he has made efforts to communicate his whereabouts he has slipped up twice recently. He uses the kids as an excuse for not contacting me. The first time he was at an athletic banquet with the mother of his children and the second time he was using his ex's money to take his kids shoppping for her bday gift.

I have to initiate all sexual encounters. He french kisses me only if I specifically ask him to. He does't compliment me. All this was the norm before and during the affair.

Positive changes:

We have exchanged email passwords and my husband has deleted his memberships to social networking sites. He calls me every day from work. He now holds my hand and cuddles with me on the couch. When prompted he says he loves me and will spend couple time with me. He initiates family time with me and the children.

I participate in family activities now. I had withdrawn and was spending all my time at work, with friends or vacationing alone. When invited, I sleep in his bed with him at night but still have my own bedroom. I have embraced forgiveness and have taken healing seriously. I have made efforts to educate myself and improve my relationship skills. I love him but I don't think what we have is anything more than a strained friendship right now.

Any thoughts/insight would be appreciated. Sorry for the lengthy post...it's so complicated. But please let me know if I can clarify anything further.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but for me, this statement tells me you are still justifying what you did. Until you come to terms with the damage YOU caused and clean your own backyard entirely by accepting the consequences you can't look at anyone elses backyard.

There are LOTS of people who will help you, but you have to stop blaming him on what he did and didn't do and deal with what you did and didn't do.

Welcome to MB. I really hope you and you husband can work through this together and create a wonderful new marriage.

Marriagematerial - there isn't anything "so complicated" here. You have both engaged in adultery and the betrayal of YOUR marriage vows to each other.



Okay, then looking at your sig line information raises some questions.

me 35
him 38
married 4/00
5 kids (mine 16,16-his 8,8-ours 7)
D day 03/20/08

1. This is not the "first marriage" for either of you, is it?

2. If it is, then one or both of you had children out of wedlock.

3. If HE has twin 8 year olds, and the two of you have a 7 year old, just HOW did his previous marriage end, how did you two meet and become involved, then married, and then produce a child, all within one year of his previous children's birth to, I assume, his THEN wife?

4. Did the two of you have an affair and then got married?

5. Just HOW do each of you think of marriage and what Standards do you apply to "being married?"

6. Do BOTH of you really want to LEARN about, and IMPLEMENT, changes in your thinking and behaviors so that you can build a better, more loving, more caring, more sharing, marriage?

7. IF the answer to question #6 is "yes," then how long are each of you willing to invest in "getting there?"

marriagematerial

"this one night stand's BF starting dating my BF. They planned a 30th bday celebration in Vegas a month after we decided to stay married. I agreed to share a hotel room with this guy and didn't tell my husband. Nothing happened physically aside from the one night"

If I was your, no I can't see any BH believing that nothing happened that night in Vegas.

Not to call you a liar, but because how could the OM not try any thing. No good night kiss. No cuddle or spooning. No back rub. What was the OM gay. I could of seen the OM finally accepting your No, but not trying.

Do you realize why this trip to Vegas has your BH going crazy? One month after you tell your BH that you want to stay married and recover your marriage you go on an over night trip to where you share a bed with the OM.

How did you justify going on this trip and sharing a bed with the OM?

What did you tell your husband before you left on this trip?

Would you please share the both your prior marriage status?

How long have you been reading here?

Have you spent time reading the articles on MB?

I hope to of not bashed you hard enough to not make you come back?

How can you be reconnecting and still maintain separate bed rooms?
Time to just move back in. Quietly no fuss, just do it.

Wow, it was really hard to air my dirty laundry on this public site. I didn't expect this sort of response but I understand that I haven't conducted myself perfectly in the past. I guess I'll try to explain.

I do feel horrible for the mistakes I've made. I know I've contributed to the sorry state we're in but I am trying. I came clean about my past when I could have just as easily continued the lies.

But how can I not blame my husband for hurting me too? He was dating, in love with and sleeping with my former close friend for 9 months. I wasn't aware of any of this. The difference between our infidelities is that he hid all of this from me. There was no discussion of divorce. He was coming home every night, sleeping with me, telling me he loved me and sharing family activities. Where four years ago, I was sleeping in my own room, acting like his roommate and open about my spending time with this new guy. In my mind, I'm not a cheater just a liar. My H is both. He recently chose to have not only a PA but a EA with no prior knowledge of my sins.

I guess I'm still angry and hurt. Is that why I justify? Maybe I'm not ready to move on and heal our marriage yet.

Thank you for sharing and not running away. Some people ponce hard on WW's when they first post here. They a reacting to what has been done.

You gave more insight but I wish you would answer my questions.

1,2. This is our first marriage. Neither of us married the other parent of our children.

3,4. His twins were born in Feb 99, they split up in Sept 99 and we met online in Oct 99. I fell head over heels for him and his babies. He was asking to move in together in Dec 99 but I was scared to death. I was using birth control (IUD) but became pregnant the following Feb 00, we turned our previously planned vacation to Vegas into a wedding ceremony Apr 00 and our son was born Nov 00.

My H says he wasn't interested in having a relationship with the mother of his children. He helped her take care of the babies until she asked for the keys to her house back and gave him back the things he had left at her house. This is what I was told but I do recall her being upset when she met me in Oct. She accused him of never breaking up with her. He said it was clear to him that their relationship was over when she asked for her keys back. He said he never slept with her after the babies were born.

5. I think we both would say that we have a traditional view of marriage. Although neither of us are particularly religious. I would describe myself as athiest in fact. We're both independent and have had friends of the opposite sex but we're not drug users or swingers and haven't given each other permission to have relationships outside of our marriage. I hope that is the kind of info you were looking for.

6. Well, my H says he does but I don't see much action on his part. He's not a very communicative or emotional person outwardly. I've taught myself to look at his actions because he won't talk unless cornered. I have been actively learning and implementing changes that he asked for and the EN questionaire revealed. I brought up MC last night and got a "possibly."

7. As long as it takes...wait, I'm expecting more progress than I should huh? We're nearing our 3 mo mark since D day. I was hoping that we wouldn't still be ambivalent but we are. He says he wants to be here and save our marriage but again I don't see the action. I'm torn even more now. He told me last night that he evicted our renter and she has moved out. We had some bad disagreements three weeks ago and I told him that if he wasn't going to try that he should move out. He didn't want to live in a hotel or apartment so he gave her notice but again failed to include me in this decision. It's brought back the demons for me. Another lie, another wall between he and I. It just doesn't look good for us right now.

Yes, my H is very upset about this. Another dumb decision on my part. I had taken vacations without my H before. I was very proud of the fact that we could trust each other to do this. As I said before we're really independent people and have different interests.

We shared a hotel room but there were two beds. He had a new GF at that point and was very into her. He wasn't interested in me long term and didn't want to jeopardize his new relationship. Although he did lie to her as well. I guess he wasn't very smart either. But there never was an emotional connection between myself and this guy. We looked at each other as someone to hang out with (rebound). He was fresh out of a long term relationship too.

I've been reading MB articles off and on since April and lurking on this forum only a handful of times. I've read "Not just friends" several times and still reading it. It's a book on surviving/recovering from infidelity.

My H is messy and my bedroom is girly and clean. I have all my clothes in it and I really enjoy having a space of my own in the house. But I do sleep in his room with him. Do you think it bothers him that I've keep the room? He hasn't said anything but he's not a talker. Is this a sign of my ambivalence?

Yeah, I feel pretty picked on but I am strong. I don't want to be called a WW! My H knows about the site. Just promise me if he makes a profile that you'll attack him too.

I guess I better change my sig line.

MM,

It was not MY intent to beat up on your or make you feel anyway. Actually, I have had to learn I can't make anyone feel one way or another. Trust me I have tried.

I also am not judging you in anyway shape or form. I have my own demons and that caused the destruction of my M and so I truly just keep to my side of the street.

But that was MY POINT. Getting you to keep to your side of the street, discovering what and why you did what you did and making changes to ensure they don't happen again.

If you are making a commitment to recover your M, then regardless of any sitch, there is HARD work ahead and all I was encouraging you to do is keep to your side, straighten it up, protect it like G-d wants you to and live in G-ds will. G-d will heal your M as you work for it.

Stick around there is MUCH to learn about yourself...

Thank you for trying to help me. I posted my story to receive help, I just didn't imagine that I would be called out so strongly in the beginning. It's okay and I'm okay and I understand completely what you are saying now and appreciate your words. I have spent alot of time recently worrying about what he's doing at work, on the internet and on his cell phone. I agree that it's time for me to focus on my own words and behaviours. I already started yesterday and it feels good.

I thought I would mention that I am now longer friends with this entire group of people. My BF and I had a falling out in Nov 05.

I wish I could say the same about my H and the OW. Did I mention that this hurts me daily?

Hi MM,

Welcome to MB. I posted on your other thread but this one has your latest input so I will post my thoughts here if that's ok.

Let's start by finding out what you have read from MB. Can you please tell us what book you have read? That will help know how to provide the best type of support.

Also your sitch is not unusual, just a bit more challenging. Still getting the right attitude is a must and you are showing a willingness to try, so that's good. Right now your H maybe still in the 'fog' (we'll discuss that more later) and his progress may be at a different place from yours.

If you get a chance, read the book: His Needs/Her Needs.

Since there is some communication between u 2, there's a chance that this book will give you the tools to learn HOW to communicate with your H (in general terms) and then we will learn how to deal with his dysfunctional A issue.

Btw, ALL A's are dysfunctional. LOL!!! :eek:

take care,
L.

mm, I am glad you made it over here. Sorry you are here, but you are in the right place. After reading your story, the 2 most important things I can tell you is to get counseling with Steve Harley and to get the book, Fall in Love, Stay in Love, Lovebusters and His Needs, Her Needs. Your marriage has been badly, badly damaged with affairs, untrustworthy behavior, disrespect and it will take much to pull it back together. There are so many obstacles here I don't even know where to start.

That is why I think you need to talk to Steve. He wont waste your time with a lot of nonsense, but will give you a PLAN, and more than that, he may be able to give your husband HOPE about your marriage.

I guess the biggest problem I see is his continued working with the OW and his continued contact with his X. He can't ever recover from the affair until he ends all contact with his OW. Until that happens he will be withdrawn from you and in a perpetual state of withdrawal. You can also see that this keeps you in a state of anxiety that will prevent you from ever recovering.

There are a couple of things you said that concerned me. One was that his adultery is worse than yours. MM, it was not; adultery is adultery is adultery. Honesty about adultery does not make a bad thing good. Sleeping in the guest room does not make adultery not adultery. ALL ADULTERY is bad, there is no such thing as good adultery. It is all destructive, all bad.

Your past "separations" were not "separations" at all. You were about as "separated" as me and my H this morning when he went out to mow the lawn. You were NEVER "separated." Nor is "separation" an EXCUSE FOR ADULTERY. Even if you lived on the other side of the world from each other and filed LEGAL "separation" papers, you would STILL be committing adultery if you had relations with someone else.

This move into the guest room separation scheme is just a silly kids game that some use to justify pretending to be single when they are really married. It is a MIND GAME. And very destructive at that. AS YOU CAN SEE.

The fact of the matter is that you both committed adultery. You were never "separated." I am sad that your children were taught this is acceptable behavior for adults and I hope you correct that impression by telling them the truth about what happened and why it was WRONG lest they grow up and follow in your footsteps and profoundly morally confused.


I hope you have ditched this idiot. This is someone who is not qualified to counsel depressed poodles. GOOD GOD. Even so, you are to blame for your actions alone.


{{{{{{{{{{{{shudder}}}}}}}}}} another MC? I hope not the last one. :eek:


See, your H should not trust you if you do boneheaded things like this because it says you do not observe proper boundaries in your marriage. This is how affairs start. It is not lack of TRUST that kills marriages, but LACK OF BOUNDARIES. It took me a long time to get that, but when you really think it through it makes perfect sense.

I won't lie to you, friend, you have a lot of hard work ahead of you. Its certainly not hopeless as long as y'all get some good guidance.

The book I read is titled 'NOT "Just Friends"' by Shirley P. Glass Ph.D. Unfortunately not one of the MB books but it was the most on topic book I could find quickly. I have read articles on the MB website. Ones related to infidelity, EN/EN Questionnaire and LB come to mind. There are similar concepts between the MB articles and the book I read but some of the phrases or key words are a little different. I hope I'm not confusing the two in my posts here.

I sincerely thank you for posting to me. It feels so much better to speak freely about our sitch and be in contact with others who have had similar experiences.

I see what you are saying about separations and my restricted definition of adultery. I would imagine my H's definition is more similar to yours and this is why he is so mad at me. The last thing I want is my children to make the mistakes I have made. I can and will tell my daughters how my viewpoint and actions were wrong.
I don't know what happened there. Unless I took her words too literally or heard what I wanted to hear at the time. Either way I had already been questioning that MC's advice and suggested to my H that we try someone else. Perhaps a male counselor this time?! I think I need to learn more about the male viewpoint because I'm struggling to understand my H right now.
I used to be dumbfounded by my friend's clingy husbands and just couldn't figure out why they let them restrict their freedom. NOW I know! I am the one dealing with infidelity issues not them. My H and I had few boundaries before but we definitely have some now. I'm thinking that we still have more to put into place before either of us can feel safe with each other again.

THANK YOU THANK YOU for taking the time to respond to my post-this really helps. I do feel hopeful and can't wait to make some more changes.

"We shared a hotel room but there were two beds. He had a new GF at that point and was very into her. He wasn't interested in me long term and didn't want to jeopardize his new relationship"

Did he not think what his GF would do if she found out?
Not being interested does not mean he would not try for one more goodbye F. Did you not think that. Not to justify rape but we have heard many a times when the businessman meets a woman and brings her to his room. Where according to her she was raped. Why do they, why did you, put yourself in a situation that could go wrong. I do not mean to justify or excuse rape. For even consensual sex that night would of not set well with your BH.
Reult would of been more baggage. You did nothing that night but look what that trip did.

As a BH I would not be able to believe nothing happened that night. Especially when you had SF before with this OM. Not to call you a lair but how can a BH not believe the worst.

This OM willing to share a room with an OW when he is in another relationship makes it hard to believe that he did not try to end the night with some SF. Drinking dancing just all around partying had to have him in the mood for some action. Especially when he got some before from the person he was sharing the room with that night. Why risk his current relationship for nothing? This is why I believe that he had to of tried something, so does your husband.

"I have all my clothes in it and I really enjoy having a space of my own in the house. But I do sleep in his room with him"

How often? Every night or only on SF nights?

"Do you think it bothers him that I've keep the room? He hasn't said anything but he's not a talker"

Separated bed rooms sends out a message of I'm only willing to live here as a room mate. So what we have SF. Hey friends with benefits is all it is.

You have sent a negative message by having separate bed rooms.

Did you know that marriage counlelors have an 84% FAILURE RATE? That is the absolute worst of any of the counseling disciplines. What we have discovered is that most MC don't have the slightest idea how to save a marriage! They don't know how a happy one works, have not a clue about the dynamics of adultery, and even less on how to save a marriage.

They are nothing more than divorce facilitators who are not even PRO-MARRIAGE. Amazing, huh?I was amazed myself and very very fortunate to have accidentally found a counselor who used MB techniques. Here I am 8 years later with a great marriage. The stuff they teach here really does work if you use it.

Anyway, that is how I would choose a MC. Ask them if they use MB techniques. Ask them if they can save marriages. What is their track record? How is their marriage? [MC have a higher divorce rate than the gen pop]

I moved back into "our" bedroom 06/01/08. It felt really good at first but things have turned ugly again.

Earlier in May, my H decided to evict our tenant from our other house without telling me. He did this in response to one of our yelling fights where I told him to start working on our relationship or get out. He only told me after the tenant had returned the keys/garage door opener and was sure I would find out. So now I'm hurt that he has deceived me again. Our finances have been strained all month with the loss of our rental income. Not to mention he's spending his free time cleaning and fixing the place up. Which leaves less time for me.

I purchased "His Needs, Her Needs" a few weeks ago and I couldn't put it down. My H has it now but he only picks it up if I ask him to. This is really frustrating and does absolutely nothing to motivate me to continue working on our marriage.

My H and I can't do anything together without it turning into an argument in public and private. I can't deal with his yelling at me in public. And I can't seem to please him...in turn he punishes me with silence and I'm left feeling completely unloved and alone. Fathers Day was a nightmare.

And I'm turning into a monster. I find myself being a robot, extremely angry or depressed. This feels like a hopeless situation and it's getting the best of me. I'm at the end of my rope. I seriously consider kicking out my teenage daughters. I have no patience for them anymore either. I feel like quitting my job and that empty rental house is tempting me to throw my H out too. I'm ready to give up.

MM,

I've just read your thread.

I can't believe the similarities my W and I share with you and your H...

Age at the time of crisis, we were both Wayward and Betrayed, Horrible adivce from couselors, etc...

I suspect you two have some serious communication problems. I only say this due to my own personal experience. Would you agree?

--JKT