You really believe that that?

People can argue when life starts. Do people realize that even an unfertilized egg is alive. It will never reach it's potential till it is fertilized. Then it still has to attach to the uterus wall to stay in the womb to continue living.

All life needs to be protected. Can society decide that he's to old and in poor health, his quality of life is no where near what it was at his prime.

He can't survive on his own. Lets abort him. This is the same logic abortionist's used to justify the killing of unborn children. The unborn child can not survive on their own outside of the womb so it's ok to kill them. Abortionist's logic would then have to support this position. Extend their argument that a child once born can not survive on their own for many years after birth so we should be able to abort post birth too.

As an individual it is easy to say what abortion is. Legal murder.

What would I do if my wife had become pregnant by the OM?

It's one thing to recover from an affair that did not result in pregnancy. Time will fade the memories of the affair. You will recall them less till hardly at all an then only trigger for the briefest moment.

For the most part you can ignore what happened in the past. You have been making great new memories to focus on instead of the pain.

How many times I read here were a BH tells of his pain that his WW is going out to bang the OM. While waiting for his plan A and exposure to work ending the affair.

Then the WW wants to recover the marriage but is now knocked up by the OM.

The nine months of watching, is as if the WW is still having an affair going out to meet the OM. For the changes in her body are because the OM touched her. Even though the WW is no longer leaving her BH at home to go out to bang the OM that fact that she did has to be looked at each day. Watching her breast swell and her belly grow. What a vision to face every day for nine months because I was not the dad.

The changes due to the pregnancy are not permanent and the visual changes brought about a WW's affair would be gone. As a BH forgets that the WW went on dates with the OM and what they did on those dates he most likely will forget how the way she looked carrying the OM's baby.

Having to see the OC every day. How can you forget that your WW had an affair and the memories of the OM?

The money to raise the OC. You have COM ready to go to college. What happens if having the OC makes it unable for you to send your kids to college? Your COM are old enough so that you and your wife could of left them alone to go away here and there for a weekend and now can't because of the OC? You were able to just afford that motorcycle or camper or boat. The OC has now made you too poor to buy the toy you have been wanting to for a long time.

Would you let the OM have contact with the OC? No. For the affair to stay dead there must be NC for the rest of the WW's life.

The OM wants to co parent with your WW. Are you willing to let the WW have direct contact with the OM? I could never let my wife have any contact for any reason.

If this had happened to my wife would she never be able to give up the OC. Her RC faith and maternal instincts would never let her abort. She also could never give up the OC to adoption. I am against abortion. I could not force her to give up the OC either.

I could never forgive the OM. He made a change in my life with the OC that no one can ignore.

This only being a what if exercise I can not say what I would do.
I don't want to leave my wife, my COM, my life.
If I can't walk away from them would I let my wife keep the OC? Leaning that way.

I would keep the OM away at all costs. Forcing OM to pay CS would only prevent NC for my wife.

Could I bond with the OC? To what level? I do not know and never experiencing this I can not imagine. I think that the OC would always serve as a reminder for the affair and the OM.

I feel that the anger that would be inside me would keep me from doing any of the child rearing chores. I would refuse to let the OC change my life as much as possible.

After time would I or could I change and soften towards the OC? I do not know.

Is it wrong for RB or any BH to accept the OC? No. It boils down to how much the BH can handle. How much he wants to keep his wife, marriage, COM, family life, home.

If a BH wants to keep his life together enough then he will be willing to pay the price and recover with his wife and OC.

First RB 65,
let me state that I applaud your attitude and actions in at least attempting to reconcile.
Your in such a tough spot my friend.

Now
Even though this is one of the most trying times in your life,
You will be better off (regardless of the final outcome) for having at least tried (as opposed to just giving up and running away).
So for that I commend you.

However,
keep in mind that you are sooooooooo very Early on in this process.
Sadly,
(in terms of recovery)
you don't even Know what you don't know.
Unfortunately,
as you walk this long journey,
you may find that you can't keep some of the promises you may make at this earlier time.
So yes,
go into this with a positive attitude and true heart .......but perhaps keep the long range commitments to the minimum up and until you've really gone far enough in this process to Understand exactly Where both your Head and Heart are.
Cause sadly,
they are gonna shift, change and alter as you go through the various stages.
Keep that in mind and don't beat yourself up (much) when they ultimately do occur.

Next,
on to something someone else wrote:

The Road,
As I do not know this entire story,
I'll have to go off of what little you've written.

With that said,
did this BH ADMIT that this scenario you've come up with "is" what he did? (ie, knowingly string his WW along with the intention of only hurting her later on)

OR is this just Your interpretation of the events??

Cause Honestly,
All any BS signs on for when they attempt to recover their marriage is just that ......the attempt.
They agree to TRY.

Some find out later on that NO,
they cannot deal with this, they cannot re-connect with their cheating spouse.

Unfortunately,
no one can Know this for sure Up and Until some time has passed.
(Cause like it or not, if the decision had to be made in a short period of time, the overwhelming great majority would get divorced).

Now just because it doesn't turn out as in a fairy tale OR how the WS would like it too ........does not mean it was all just a con job and a "gotch ya".
Regardless of the time frame.

Also to keep things in perspective,
if even after giving possible recovery a real chance .......IF a BS were to ultimately end up Divorcing ..........Of course there is going to be at least Some Bitterness towards the WS for destroying the marriage with their infidelity.
However,
if it is the infidelity that is the Reason for the dissolution ....than that is simply a consequence of those actions ......not vengeance.

For myself,
it took 4 long years to get to the point of not only true forgiveness .....but also to the acceptances within myself, that I could live with this and make a new life together.
Yet,
by these apparent standards .....had I had a different outcome (say at the 3yr mark, and believe me at that point it WAS STILL IN DOUBT) then I'd be somehow guilty of stringing her along and being vengeful.
HARDLY!!!

Face it,
none of us KNOW what we are gonna really do or how we are gonna react up and UNTIL we Go Through the process.
Its no different when trying to recover from infidelity.
You make the commitment to try .......and see what happens.

However,
don't vilify anyone who after going through the process, decides that they Do Not want to remain married to someone that cheated on them.
Makes No sense to do that.
Why, Just because they didn't do it in the Time Frame that "YOU" decided was correct for Them. Please.

How dare anyone tell another BS that they should be OVER IT in 6 months or a year or 2 (or any other arbitrary time frame)!
Sorry but that just too closely parallels "wayward" type thinking .......

Again, (anyone)
if your still there and your trying .......don't feel poorly just because you STILL have some doubts.
Unfortunately,
those will most likely be around for quite some time ......so understand that they are completely normal, and hence so are you.

Actually,
its how you work through your concerns that is one of the keys.
Much better to acknowledge you have doubts then attempt to bury them and let them fester.

Lastly,
whether one stays married or not .....you are better off for having worked through many of the issues that are born out of this awful period in your life.
Recovery (personal & martial) / forgiveness and all it entails is a journey, not a destination.
Always keep that in mind.
Each person has to recover personally, whether or not the marriage does.

RB needs to consult with a family law attorney. This should be a priority. My state allows 2 years for paternity to be contested. I strongly advise against allowing OM in the picture. You want to protect your M. You don't want an OP involved with your W the rest of your life. BTW, there IS a way to do C without his W ever seeing or speaking to OM. They would need to get a 3rd party involved or RB be the drop off/pick up person. I strongly advise IF you choose to allow OM contact that your W continue NC herself with him.

That thing is already a living human being. Please drop the abortion stuff people. RB already has dismissed this as an option.

EVERY time that this issue gets brought up, this whole board goes into a tailspin. You are pro-choice ... bully for you. However, it is a legal proceedure and a viable option in many of these cases, and should be allowed to be discussed as such.

IMHO, we deal with a lot more serious issues here daily than abortion (others are free to disagree) and to exclude this one issue based on a one-sided interpretation is simply ridiculous. Are you really that upset over the descriptive word "thing"?

I have been told on numerous occassions here to "take what I can use and disregard the rest" when dealing with a particular post that I took exception with ... how is this issue any different?

You are entitled to your beliefs, myrev. I asked we drop the issue on THIS thread because of RB's beliefs. Not mine.

If god has such a problem with abortion, he'll deal with the "murderers" in the afterlife, and all those fetuses get a free pass into heaven.

Relax! If you are against abortion, don't have one!

That old post.

I do not remember his exact words. I do remember his tone. They were the same as a WW going through the motions of attempting recovery until the BH gives up and files for divorce. Or the WW puts in enough time to declare that she tried and can't repair this marriage.

Now that the WW had for appearances sake "tried fist" then walks away from the marriage. That in the end she did everything possible to save it.
Making herself out to be a martyr.

With life every one learns how to read between the lines. That is why I felt that BH was not sincere. He was using a false recovery for revenge on his WW. Making his grandstand play that he did every thing that could be done to save their marriage. Then walking out.

He was in his right to walk away. The way he did it was not honorable.

I can not see how I implied in that how that all marriage's must be saved. That all BS' must forgive, forget, and recover. I have only seen honest attempts here except that one time.

When I posted what you quoted was my response to a BH that was starting to build in to many escape clauses in his posts. I did not want to see a repeat. The response I received from him put my fears at ease.

WHAT THE HE$$ IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE???

You want to debate abortion, start another thread, get the heck off of this one. RB and his W have already made up their mind on this issue, so it is a non-issue with regard to this thread.

You don't want to support him or run your own aganda, get off of this thread and start your own. Entitle it "I don't see how he can do this." I don't care what you call it.

If you think he has forgotten something, or you have some insight into his situation that might help him, bring it on.

Don't forget the man is NOT dumb. I am sure he has thought many things about his situation since he came here, probably more than have been posted to him.

Quit arguing about issues that have nothing to do with RB.

JL

JL, while I happen to agree with you...it is not your place to tell people where to post. If RB wishes for the discussion to leave his thread, that is his call...not yours.

MEDC,

To quote someone YOU know. I have the full right to state my opinion on this matter. This discussion is detrimental to the issues at hand for RB. I fully intend to shine that piece of light on those that seem to have forgotten it. The mediators on this site have also repeated it.

JL

No doubt you have that right. But, don't be surprised when no one cares to listen to your directives. There is ahuge differnce between stating your view and outright ordering people to do something you want.

1st I do not wish to enter the abortion issue so i am replying to the parts that deal with infidelity only

road i must admit as i was reading your reply i was thinking that you probably see the glass as 1/2 empty. the further i read the more i felt you were understanding the difficulties that rb is facing

i think you are right when you say

""""It's one thing to recover from an affair that did not result in pregnancy. Time will fade the memories of the affair. You will recall them less till hardly at all an then only trigger for the briefest moment.""""


""""The changes due to the pregnancy are not permanent and the visual changes brought about a WW's affair would be gone. As a BH forgets that the WW went on dates with the OM and what they did on those dates he most likely will forget how the way she looked carrying the OM's baby.""""

are you trying to tell me that without the preg the visusls and recovery from an A would take only 9 months?

for ME personally it was not the site of my w's body growing with the preg. i have always found the sexiest woman on the face of the planet to be pregnant. OK call me weird. but they are so full of life it just amazes me.

also remember that my w was preg alot with 6 kids. so the site of her with that ballon under her shirt was normal.

what did haunt me was the thoughts and images i would have of her with om. (sorry but the term "banging" may be brutally honest. but when discussing the subject on a thread such as rb's it is still brutal. imho) and i am sure that in rb's case those visuals are much stronger then most could imagine.

rb willhave his own "demons" to conquer not mine or anyone else's

""""Having to see the OC every day. How can you forget that your WW had an affair and the memories of the OM?""""

i thought this exact way during my w's preg. didn't know how i was going to accept this child. and in our situation om is of a different nationality that would surely be obvious to all in the babys features.

rb will have to separate the child from the A like all those who have gotten thru this have

""""The money to raise the OC. You have COM ready to go to college. What happens if having the OC makes it unable for you to send your kids to college? Your COM are old enough so that you and your wife could of left them alone to go away here and there for a weekend and now can't because of the OC? You were able to just afford that motorcycle or camper or boat""""

one of the reasons i wnated my w to seek cs. not for the toys but instead in the event of my untimely demise. she would be strapped with supporting 6 plus one and i didn't/ don't have a fortune stashed away.

i have no idea of rb's financial situattion. that is why a good attorney is a top priority for him

""""Would you let the OM have contact with the OC? No. For the affair to stay dead there must be NC for the rest of the WW's life.""""

this is where i had many questions. what is to quarntee that he won't try and get involved down the road 10 - 15 years? that oc won't want to seek out her bio father in that same time frame?

now for the record i paid cs for my oldest son for 20 years. there was a chance that i would have never known him. so i feel that the right thing to do is give the bio the chance to know his child. geez that is the easy statement on this. i have so many scenerios it isn't funny.

for my w she has a very hard time sharing her daughter with om. i said it before it is the mama bear deal.

our very own tigger had an om that was extremely violent and has never known of his blood line. and rightfully so.

my oldest daughter has been ordered by the courts to NEVER allow her dd's father around him and i agree. he has been convicted 3 times for FELONY domestic abuse.

i also said that if my w wants the om she can have him. fool me once shame on me fool me twice,,,,,,,,,,ain't gonna happen

rb will know when it is time to trust his w agin fully

""""The OM wants to co parent with your WW. Are you willing to let the WW have direct contact with the OM? I could never let my wife have any contact for any reason.""""

even though many states are becoming more leanient with these laws om still has to understand that in the majority of cases he will have a limited role at best. although i was the full time go between at the onset sooner or later you have to decide whether you are going to trust your w again or not.

what kind of a relationship will you have if you have to sleep with 1 eye open for the next quarter of a century.

""""If this had happened to my wife would she never be able to give up the OC. Her RC faith and maternal instincts would never let her abort. She also could never give up the OC to adoption. I am against abortion. I could not force her to give up the OC either"""""

btdt,,,,,,, whne my w initialy discovered her preg she and om attempted to get an abortion. trouble was it was about a week after mothers day and she was already a mother of 6. d-day was shortly after and i also tried to talk her into this. it didn't take long to see that an abortion would have ruined her in ways that there may have been no recovery possible for us.

we also looked into the adoption route. she could and actually i couldn't think of what we would tell our com so that they would not feel insecure about us maybe giving them away also.

rb has seemingly made his choice. so it is time to start supporting him, not trying to push our own agendas

""""I could never forgive the OM""""

yo dude, this hurts to hear this. not that om needs a break. but again what kind of life can you live with this anger in your heart forever?

and i am in no way advocating forgetfulness. you should never forget but at the same time you have to let go.

also isn't hating the om kind of misplacing the fault for your pain. after all it wasn't om that stood next to you and promised tp love you eternally. the truth is that it was your w that caused all thi spain because of her actions. om was just the opportunist that was in the wrong place at the right time. if a ws is going to stray it will be with whomever is available.

i was going to take care of the om permently but had to remember that f i did him in, then i would have to repeat the action on my w. afer all my heart wasn't broken the last time oc "banged" someone.


""""Could I bond with the OC? To what level? I do not know and never experiencing this I can not imagine. I think that the OC would always serve as a reminder for the affair and the OM.""""

again i felt exactly the same.

it is different for everyone. my story is below and yet AD's H handled it differently. rb will find his way


""""I feel that the anger that would be inside me would keep me from doing any of the child rearing chores. I would refuse to let the OC change my life as much as possible.

After time would I or could I change and soften towards the OC? I do not know.""""

only your heart can answer this. what kind of a guy are you? when your friend or family stiffs you for $100 do you forgive them or carry forever.

here's what happened in my case.....when the baby was born you would have thought the delivery room was a morgue.

with my last 6 kids, the same dr and nurses i was almost pushing them aside so i could get involved. with grace all i did was take ppics for my w.

when they told me i cold hold her i said "no thanks, btdt".

i refused to touch her thinking that it was hers and she needs to handle it. yes i used the words "it" when talking about grace.

once home i refused to do anything to help with her. with the other kids all i wanted to do was get my hands on them.

the after about a week and 1/2. the w was in the shower and grace started crying. i tried to ignore it but thought what the hell i will just go rock her and calm her down. once i picked her up she had me. lock, stock and barrel.

after that i was wrapped around her precious little fingers.

another decision that rb will have to make. it will however make recovery hard if cannot accept the child

anyway all the questions you ask are the same as i asked. all the doubts that you raise were the same as i had. there are an infinate amount of unknowns in these sits.

that's why we have to look inside our selves and see who we are. the bitter person that will carry a grudge to the grave or a compassionate, caring, empathetic person who can forgive and move forward.

i think that you are the kind of guy that could also work thru this type of betrayal

i also see rb as that same kind of guy. he doesn't want to hate for the rest of his life. he does want to feel like the victim forever. he wants to heal and find the love in his heart he had for his w and the happiness his family enjoyed.

when i read that his children want to know tis sibling i know he has taught them the good things in life

they can make this work. or at least give it one hell of a go.

This is the 48th post since RB himself last weighed in and had anything to say himself about anything. Do suppose that, caught in the withering crossfire of opposing philosophies, he's had to retreat to his foxhole and hunker down out of the line of fire? Who's going to call "all clear" and let him out again? Anyone?

ALL CLEAR RB,,,,,,,,

If all can simply AGREE to hold their opinions that are contradictive to the course that RB has choosen and simply offer support. his chances of success will greatly enhanced.

also I whole heartedly AGREE with JL that this is not the place to debate certain issues.

what possible good can come of it?

sure it is an open forum and a free speech country. but give me a break. now you want to argue the "you can't tell me what to do" issue.

where exactly is your compassion and empathy for what rb is going thru?

that's why i left this board years back. there was to much of this bickering about things that had nothing to do with the topic of the thread.

to quote a famous American..."can't we all just get along"

I used to think infidelity was a deal breaker...until I experienced and overcame it.

Thereafter, I used to think an OC would have been a deal breaker. I was fortunate not to have experienced that but upon reading this thread...I've come to the conclusion that I would have overcame that also and ended up loving the OC.

I wouldn't have wanted OM in the picture at all and would have taken any and all legal measures to keep him out of the picture. I am, without a doubt, a better father than him so he can kiss off. I'd do a tremendous job raising a wonderful hopefully healthy child in spite of OM.

I love kids. I've got one...where I had indicated prior to marriage that I wanted up to five. I'm really not interested in adopting. So, an OC, if it had happened to me, wouldn't be the worst case scenario. I WANT more kids. Don't get me wrong, it would have been much harder for me to deal with at that time than what I did deal with and I don't wish it had happened. Only stating that if it had, the OC would still be my wife's child and, biblical, WE are one flesh...so, thus, the child would be mine too, not biologically, but spiritually. Biologically, it's a half step better than raising a fully adopted child with absolutely no biological ties to US, particularly one from another country and all the cultural complications that entails. Plus...no adoption hassle and cost...FREE baby (I LIKE saving money).

Thank you RB, pops and others for teaching me something about myself.

Mr. Wondering

exactly what I was thinking 30 secs before I came down and read your post. thanks, I don't have to put it out there now and misspell it and all.

All Blessings,
Jerry

Well, to be fair, at least 3 of the bullets in that crossfire were mine, although only 2 of them remain on the thread. And even though I was on RB's side, and not shooting at him, there IS friendly fire, after all, and if I did any damage to you, RB, and your search for answers, I am truly sorry and ask your forgiveness for making a hard row even harder.

As far as spelling goes, my parents were English teachers. I wasn't ALLOWED to make mistakes in spelling! And even at 60, with my mother dead these last 5 years and my father a confused 93 years old, I am still compelled to go back and fix things, even on anonymous internet forums, if I see I've made a mistake. You are much freer in your posting, Jerry. I think I envy you.

Pops

"are you trying to tell me that without the preg the visuals and recovery from an A would take only 9 months?"

No.

"The nine months of watching, is as if the WW is still having an affair going out to meet the OM. For the changes in her body are because the OM touched her. Even though the WW is no longer leaving her BH at home to go out to bang the OM that fact that she did has to be looked at each day. Watching her breast swell and her belly grow. What a vision to face every day for nine months because I was not the dad.

The changes due to the pregnancy are not permanent and the visual changes brought about a WW's affair would be gone. As a BH forgets that the WW went on dates with the OM and what they did on those dates he most likely will forget how the way she looked carrying the OM's baby"



If the WW went NC with the OM as soon as she got pregnant. The BH most likely not feel NC has started. Seeing his WW pregnant from the OM, will cause the BH pain as if his WW was still going out to see the OM. How can a BH ignore that the OC growing in his WW is not his.

As long as the WW is pregnant the BH can not forget the affair whenever he looks at his wife. It would seem that recovery would not be able to start until the pregnancy is done.

Every day that a BH has to see his WW pregnant is to unintentionally have his WW rub the affair in his face. Even if the wife is remorseful during this time and is doing every thing to ease the BH's pain. There is not respite from seeing her pregnant.

Because not until the OC is born will a BH have to get off the fence and make a decision as to whether he can be a dad to the OC.

Usually we here from the BH's that have stayed. They stayed for many reasons. They accepted the OC when it was born or shortly after.

I remember when my wife was pregnant, I never thought she looked fat. She was pretty. At that time I remember other preg women complaining they looked fat. I told them you do not look fat you look preg, there not the same you look fine.


"also remember that my w was preg alot with 6 kids. so the site of her with that ballon under her shirt was normal"


I complement you on being able to do that. I think that I would not be able to ignore why my wife would be pregnant.

Pops I enjoyed reading your post.

As Mr W said: You can only guess what you might do.

Until your there and you will usually surprise your self.